JV talks, sort of

[JV1973]

Hmmm. 4th-hand via 'Mark' in a comment to Steve Tilford's blog. A highly reliable source, I am sure. Seems that 'Mark's' old training partner had several friends on the team.

It was actually JV's response to Dear Wiggo which led me to take the bait - I wouldn't have bothered replying to Dear Wiggo's comment alone. It just seemed so reminiscent of the well-practiced Vaughtersian double-talk or non-denial denial, which we are rather used to by now.
See e.g. - http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/08/vaughters-non-admission-admission/ - even his tweets are consistently cleverly crafted. Over 20 of them. Compare:

Could just have been completely coincidental of course, and he simply just felt like nattering about Star-Trek Legends...

So if the alleged doping occured in a training camp in 2008 then I can't see that TD tested positive there - no way would JV have allowed him not to mention it to USADA (results were only taken away till Sept 2006 - so this is way too long for there to be any residual effect). Although I wasn't completely clear from 'Mark' whether the training camp itself was in 2008, or just the conversation about it.

Could have been that the bio-passport was slighly suspicious? I can't think that it would have been positive at that stage since the bio-passport requires a long period of suspicion before it can be interpreted as a positive, in longtitudinal testing. A merely 'suspicious' result might explain JV's rather oblique way of dealing with the situation. Interesting management style.

But I recall JV a while back saying that the only suspicious bio-passport results the team had had did not correlate with any performance increases, so he wasn't concerned about doping. Not sure how up-to-date this is.

But this is of course all now idle 5th-hand speculation.

- Argyle_Fan

Let me answer you in a more basic form: NO, there is no Tom Danielson pos test.

I was poking fun at Wiggo's "I heard from a friend of a buddy of my next door neighbor's son's brother's best friend's 1st cousin that Tom had a test..."

You guys read into everything I say soooooo much. For those of you that have actually met me, you'd realize I pretty much spout out what's going on in my head. Prudence isn't my best trait.

 

[JV1973]

Hmmm. 4th-hand via 'Mark' in a comment to Steve Tilford's blog. A highly reliable source, I am sure. Seems that 'Mark's' old training partner had several friends on the team.

It was actually JV's response to Dear Wiggo which led me to take the bait - I wouldn't have bothered replying to Dear Wiggo's comment alone. It just seemed so reminiscent of the well-practiced Vaughtersian double-talk or non-denial denial, which we are rather used to by now.
See e.g. - http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/08/vaughters-non-admission-admission/ - even his tweets are consistently cleverly crafted. Over 20 of them. Compare:

Could just have been completely coincidental of course, and he simply just felt like nattering about Star-Trek Legends...

So if the alleged doping occured in a training camp in 2008 then I can't see that TD tested positive there - no way would JV have allowed him not to mention it to USADA (results were only taken away till Sept 2006 - so this is way too long for there to be any residual effect). Although I wasn't completely clear from 'Mark' whether the training camp itself was in 2008, or just the conversation about it.

Could have been that the bio-passport was slighly suspicious? I can't think that it would have been positive at that stage since the bio-passport requires a long period of suspicion before it can be interpreted as a positive, in longtitudinal testing. A merely 'suspicious' result might explain JV's rather oblique way of dealing with the situation. Interesting management style.

But I recall JV a while back saying that the only suspicious bio-passport results the team had had did not correlate with any performance increases, so he wasn't concerned about doping. Not sure how up-to-date this is.

But this is of course all now idle 5th-hand speculation.

- Argyle_Fan

But to be clear, I am always pounding on the guys about their blood values, just like you guys do here. I question them about any detail I don't like. Keep 'em on their toes.

But, as I've said here before, the worst passport values I've ever seen, actually come from a guy you all think is clean. And so do I. Sometimes blood profiles don't tell the whole story. you have to put them into context of how the rider is performing and what environmental elements he's exposed to (i.e. - hot weather causes more plasma expansion, a sudden cold weather can cause plasma jetting...a transatlantic flight often causes plasma jetting as well, conversely overheating will cause huge plasma retention.. altitude, which causes plasma jetting very quickly after exposure) and on and on....

It's a complex thing the human body.

 

[eyemgh]

A guy we'll code name Danny Pate?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Question for JV: do you know someone by the name of Bakala or Kok, and given you offered the UCI a stake in your breakaway league, do you find it curious that these 2 are offering not only a stake but $$$ to the UCI to form their own break away league, since late 2011?

Are you involved with this breakaway league at all?

Does it differ from the ASO+UCI breakaway league created by GCP that lead to teams being reverse blackmailed via letters to their sponsors regarding attendance at the Tour of Beijing in 2011?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

But to be clear, I am always pounding on the guys about their blood values, just like you guys do here. I question them about any detail I don't like. Keep 'em on their toes.

But, as I've said here before, the worst passport values I've ever seen, actually come from a guy you all think is clean. And so do I. Sometimes blood profiles don't tell the whole story. you have to put them into context of how the rider is performing and what environmental elements he's exposed to (i.e. - hot weather causes more plasma expansion, a sudden cold weather can cause plasma jetting...a transatlantic flight often causes plasma jetting as well, conversely overheating will cause huge plasma retention.. altitude, which causes plasma jetting very quickly after exposure) and on and on....

It's a complex thing the human body.

Rather than play - guess the rider which is pretty boring and something of a red herring.

Tell us what you saw in the blood profile that you thought was out of whack. From this - how did you contextualise in this particular case the out of whack readings to conclude that the rider just had whacky values rather than had been at the disco biscuits?

 

[blackcat]

MJM, the machine was merely incorrectly navigated, no, mean calibrated.

wrong calibration.

 

[Argyle_Fan]

I have removed a lot of my posts as I feel that I was contributing to too much unhelpful discussion which is unenlightened and not very useful.

 

[skidmark]

Let me answer you in a more basic form: NO, there is no Tom Danielson pos test.

I was poking fun at Wiggo's "I heard from a friend of a buddy of my next door neighbor's son's brother's best friend's 1st cousin that Tom had a test..."

You guys read into everything I say soooooo much. For those of you that have actually met me, you'd realize I pretty much spout out what's going on in my head. Prudence isn't my best trait.

Wait, by 'read into everything I say' do you really mean 'Sky is totally doping'? Awesome, this confirms my theory.

 

[AcademyCC]

Let me answer you in a more basic form: NO, there is no Tom Danielson pos test.

I was poking fun at Wiggo's "I heard from a friend of a buddy of my next door neighbor's son's brother's best friend's 1st cousin that Tom had a test..."

You guys read into everything I say soooooo much. For those of you that have actually met me, you'd realize I pretty much spout out what's going on in my head. Prudence isn't my best trait.

Im not sure if you've noticed but this is a cycling doping forum. More specifically its a thread about you. Niche market. Your a big player in the game hence we are going to read into what you say. Did the PR boys not tell you that?

A slightly negative take on what you said. I realise the system is ****ed and your doing what you can. Apart from that go JV. Also, next time you see Pat McQuaid could you please headbutt him for me? Thanks

 

[Scorpius]

JV. Christian Vande Velde.

David Millar

Ryder Hesjedal Former Us Postal.

David Zabriskie

Tom Danielson


All of the guys at Garmin Sharp have one thing in common. All reformed Dopers.

You are also a reformed doper.

A little piece of advice. Do a Dave Brailsford type thing by cleaning the Skeleton's out of the closet. And perhaps You Yourself should should step down. Because you were a doper. We the fans and sponsors do not want any dopers former or current within professional cycling. Your clean team image is damaged beyond repair.

 

[AcademyCC]

What about some serious Martyrdom re the UCI?

Surely you must know some proper corruption stories. Saddle up and burn the ****ing house down. You'd be remembered in history as the the legend that destroyed the UCI. Maybe you don't care, fair enough and its easy for people on the outside to say do this do that but the platform is their right now to really get stuck in.

Just a thought.

 

[AcademyCC]

JV. Christian Vande Velde.

David Millar

Ryder Hesjedal Former Us Postal.

David Zabriskie

Tom Danielson


All of the guys at Garmin Sharp have one thing in common. All reformed Dopers.

You are also a reformed doper.

A little piece of advice. Do a Dave Brailsford type thing by cleaning the Skeleton's out of the closet. And perhaps You Yourself should should step down. Because you were a doper. We the fans and sponsors do not want any dopers former or current within professional cycling. Your clean team image is damaged beyond repair.

Wise up. Nut job

 

[sniper]

You guys read into everything I say soooooo much.

next time you speak about clean cycling and marginal gains, let us know how to read into it.

For those of you that have actually met me, you'd realize I pretty much spout out what's going on in my head. Prudence isn't my best trait.

you've been pretty darn prudent in respect to the UCI (no or hardly any severe criticism), Kimmage (no or hardly any public support), Bruyneel (again, no unprudent criticism heard from you), Contador ("I don't know"), etc.
In fact, you (and your fans in the Clinic) constantly point out how you can't speak out loud about certain racers or DSs because that would be unprudent.

Also, if, as you claim, the body is such a complex thing (I agree of course) and interpreting bloodpassports is a risky thing (while ambiguous), how can you vouch for Wiggo 2009 and Hesjedal 2012?

 

[Scorpius]

Wise up. Nut job

Why don't you wise up you f~~~king mentally *** mentally ill sick f""k.
Go suck your c@@k and put a straight jacket on you forum addicted sad bas##rd. All the people on this form are sad ill internet addicted low life scum. If you said that to be personally you coward. I would clean the f""cking head of you. You *****.

 

[peterst6906]

I'm a sad ill internet addicted low life scum.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Froome19]

Worrying the levels of moderation on this forum at the moment..

 

[andy1234]

Why don't you wise up you f~~~king mentally *** mentally ill sick f""k.
Go suck your c@@k and put a straight jacket on you forum addicted sad bas##rd. All the people on this form are sad ill internet addicted low life scum. If you said that to be personally you coward. I would clean the f""cking head of you. You *****.

Stop holding back and just say what you mean.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Why don't you wise up you f~~~king mentally *** mentally ill sick f""k.
Go suck your c@@k and put a straight jacket on you forum addicted sad bas##rd. All the people on this form are sad ill internet addicted low life scum. If you said that to be personally you coward. I would clean the f""cking head of you. You *****.

This is very deep.

 

[blackcat]

JV. Christian Vande Velde.

David Millar

Ryder Hesjedal Former Us Postal.

David Zabriskie

Tom Danielson


All of the guys at Garmin Sharp have one thing in common. All reformed Dopers.

You are also a reformed doper.

A little piece of advice. Do a Dave Brailsford type thing by cleaning the Skeleton's out of the closet. And perhaps You Yourself should should step down. Because you were a doper. We the fans and sponsors do not want any dopers former or current within professional cycling. Your clean team image is damaged beyond repair.

you dont have a pro sport that is streamed via the media then.

FAIL.

cant divorce the sport from the infrastructure we have

 

[blackcat]

Im not sure if you've noticed but this is a cycling doping forum. More specifically its a thread about you. Niche market. Your a big player in the game hence we are going to read into what you say. Did the PR boys not tell you that?

A slightly negative take on what you said. I realise the system is ****ed and your doing what you can. Apart from that go JV. Also, next time you see Pat McQuaid could you please headbutt him for me? Thanks

Marty Jemison is not available?

 

[Argyle_Fan]

I have edited/deleted my posts as I feel that I was contributing to a lot of useles discussion which is inflammatory and not very useful.

 

[V3R1T4S]

The bolded isn't suggesting that VO2 power is sustainable for an hour is it?


From page 118 of the other thread from JV:

For me, it didn't make such a huge difference, as my hct% was quite high anyway (47-51% range naturally). roughly, I was around 360 watts at 1 hour power, at sea level, without doping. With EPO, I was around 375 watts at 1 hour power. My weight was pretty consistent in the 60-62kg range.

My biggest problems had to do with glycogen resythesis and protein degradation, not 02 consumption. Otherwise: I didn't recover too well after day 7-8 or so. Maybe that would have been solved with insulin or something, but I didn't try.

And there you go, JV

The only reason I bring this up is because 6.25 w/kilo seems pretty low for the third fastest ascent ever up the Ventoux, especially considering the company and the fact that the numbers don't jive. Also, how much increase did EPO give? 4.2% @375 or 13.3% @408? That's quite a difference.

No, I was not. Here is most likely the closest thing to an answer you will get: http://captaintbag.tumblr.com/post/35394402020/tested-captains-blood-dope-simulator-v-2

What climb is there whose gradient for the last 17km is 8%? (Ventoux). What cyclist would be privy to having AND giving this information that weighs 60kg, the weight of the pro whose numbers this is coming from (JV). Also, you can calculate the VO2 wattage to be around 432 watts, and 82.5% of this is 356 watts. I don't see who else this could be.

For the record, I am thankful and interested in that such data is made available. However, I'm not sure why there needs to be discretion when it's easy to figure out. I will admit I could be wrong, but given the information available and what's on the public record, I don't see how it could not be JV.

 

[thehog]

JV - What are you thoughts on Tenerife?

Good place to train? It does have a salacious past or are there clean merits in this particular location?

Be interested to hear your thoughts.

Thanks theHog.

 

[Argyle_Fan]

I have removed a lot of my posts as I feel that I was contributing to a lot of inflammatory posts which were not very useful owing to my lack of knowledge and education.

 

[blackcat]

salacious past?

Does Yellow Rose have a franchise?

#spearmint_rhino