JV talks, sort of

[Dear Wiggo]

Thought I'd repost and comment upon a link provided by Willy_Voet in the 'Wiggo & cigarettes' thread:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3001541/
"Cigarette smoking: an underused tool in high-performance endurance training"

It should be mentioned that it states in the Abstract: "However, if research results are selectively chosen, a review has the potential to create a convincing argument for a faulty hypothesis. Improper correlation or extrapolation of data can result in dangerously flawed conclusions.", and this appears to be what the authors have done - given some of their suggestions e.g. "...smoking should be commenced at as young an age as is reasonably possible. Children who have not yet developed a pincer grasp might require modified cigarette holders, safety lighters or both." I do not believe that the authors agree with the purpouted conclusion of their paper.

It sounds like an April 1st joke to me.

 

[Argyle_Fan]

I am removing numerous of my posts as I feel them very ill-informed.

 

[blackcat]

"
supposed
"

you need to add the quotation marks to overtly imply the doubt of the results.

there could have been
1. incorrect calibration
2. international flights
3. hypoxic efforts on previous day

there are many plausible justifications one can use. But there are only two inverted commas.

 

[sniper]

JV- what is your view on the leaked UCI suspicion list? Can you tell us more about what (passport) data the list was based on, and how reliable / useful the list was or wasn't? What should we make of Wiggins being a 5?

 

[northstar]

JV, The new Garmin Edge video (Let others follow) shows a cartoon (at 2:22) of a monkey in a zoo with a sign, do not feed the monkey. It reminds me of your comment about the Clinic 12 and "all your conspiracies.... it's like watching monkeys trying to figure out how to open a coconut". Is this cartoon an accidental coincidence?? If not, well done

Either way it's a great video and the sport should be doing more of this kind of stuff to promote the riders and create a bigger fan base. Good luck with the new season.

 

[sniper]

JV, The new Garmin Edge video (Let others follow) shows a cartoon (at 2:22) of a monkey in a zoo with a sign, do not feed the monkey. It reminds me of your comment about the Clinic 12 and "all your conspiracies.... it's like watching monkeys trying to figure out how to open a coconut". Is this cartoon an accidental coincidence?? If not, well done

it's a fact that both vaughters and wiggins are quickly annoyed by difficult questions from enquiring cycling fans.
what I like about vaughters and wiggins is that both have a straightforward way of showing their annoyance: insults.
both would prefer we shut up and stop being distrustful.
we don't love cycling.

and by the way, who cares that all those conspiracies keep turning into nightmare realities.
lance? schnee von gestern.

 

[veganrob]

JV, The new Garmin Edge video (Let others follow) shows a cartoon (at 2:22) of a monkey in a zoo with a sign, do not feed the monkey. It reminds me of your comment about the Clinic 12 and "all your conspiracies.... it's like watching monkeys trying to figure out how to open a coconut". Is this cartoon an accidental coincidence?? If not, well done

Either way it's a great video and the sport should be doing more of this kind of stuff to promote the riders and create a bigger fan base. Good luck with the new season.

JV don't be playing them kinda games, sucka.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

it's a fact that both vaughters and wiggins are quickly annoyed by difficult questions from enquiring cycling fans.
what I like about vaughters and wiggins is that both have a straightforward way of showing their annoyance: insults.
both would prefer we shut up and stop being distrustful.
we don't love cycling.

and by the way, who cares that all those conspiracies keep turning into nightmare realities.
lance? schnee von gestern.

Vaughters is [not] an idiot, like most pro - cyclist. Must be the 'roid' rage every now and then. Nevertheless it is funny him showing up here, blabbermouthing about riders - a pre emptive PR move in most of the cases - and foulmouthing you, Benotti, me and others. Those posts being deleted was the most hilarious thing I must say, wouldn't you?

Jonathan Vaughters only shows up on this forum when he has a big media move on the hand, so do not ask him questions in the near future, the guys are now in pre-season in Girona! Him being b@tch slapped by Eric Boyer at CCN says enough. He is about cleaner cycling, no clean cycling. Eric Boyer is and always has been for purifiing the sport, not this clean cycling Jezus.

On the other hand I have got an other inside in cycling, per personal message, that sometimes we clinic cynics are sometimes wrong with our assumptions.

Grazie a I. for that.

But Vaughters? Nah, don't trust the clean cycling Jezus, or his spokesmen here on this board, you know who I am talking about.

But, to stay on topic, question: he JV, did Ryder do anything at UsPs/Discovery what he should be confessing about? Or at Rabo for that matter? Or, lets say Phonak? All such nice teams!

 

[Benotti69]

JV, The new Garmin Edge video (Let others follow) shows a cartoon (at 2:22) of a monkey in a zoo with a sign, do not feed the monkey. It reminds me of your comment about the Clinic 12 and "all your conspiracies.... it's like watching monkeys trying to figure out how to open a coconut". Is this cartoon an accidental coincidence?? If not, well done

Note the monkey's did not accept the peanuts. I guess they have been reading this thread and dont believe JV and his Garmin are clean stuff either.

3 screens? 1 for the clinic?

 

[northstar]

For the record when it comes to clean sport, I am as skeptical and distrustful as most here and understand JV is playing the PR marketing game filled with dope-free unicorns and all that. I just find the potential symbolism of the monkey business in the video funny--that's all. Cheers.

 

[blackcat]

we don't love cycling.

luv cancer

 

[blackcat]

Note the monkey's did not accept the peanuts. I guess they have been reading this thread and dont believe JV and his Garmin are clean stuff either.

3 screens? 1 for the clinic?

right. who are the monkeys. its the livestrong crowd.

the "clean team" theme, is the attempt to feed the monkeys.

 

[Benotti69]

right. who are the monkeys. its the livestrong crowd.

the "clean team" theme, is the attempt to feed the monkeys.

I guess that that little animation was JVs personal little dig at someone, probably the clinic(ie button monkeys), I gave you and no one else some peanuts you ungrateful Sugar Honey Ice Ts.

It has the ring of Wiggins Bone Idle W*nkers tune!

 

[blackcat]

I guess that that little animation was JVs personal little dig at someone, probably the clinic(ie button monkeys), I gave you and no one else some peanuts you ungrateful Sugar Honey Ice Ts.

It has the ring of Wiggins Bone Idle W*nkers tune!

I did not bother to click and watch/listen to it. I have already made my mind up, like Armstrong circa 2004.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

but George Bush put it much more eloquently than I can

 

[blackcat]

Let me answer you in a more basic form: NO, there is no Tom Danielson pos test.

I was poking fun at Wiggo's "I heard from a friend of a buddy of my next door neighbor's son's brother's best friend's 1st cousin that Tom had a test..."

You guys read into everything I say soooooo much. For those of you that have actually met me, you'd realize I pretty much spout out what's going on in my head. Prudence isn't my best trait.

Kristin's corner is where you get the lowdown

 

[sniper]

it's been echoing in these JV threads for a while now.

waiting for JV's re-assessment of the current state of cycling in light of the Lance confession and Rabo farce.

 

[sniper]

So what does "now" mean in a sentence like

See why I feel cycling is clean now?

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/225617454045478913

I'd also be interested in Vaughters' assessment of Lance's 2009/10 claims, and his re-assessment of the Leinders-Sky connection in light of the Rabo scandal.
And what is Riis still doing in a peloton that lays claim on being clean(er)?

 

[pmcg76]

it's been echoing in these JV threads for a while now.

waiting for JV's re-assessment of the current state of cycling in light of the Lance confession and Rabo farce.

Well considering that most of the stuff that has come out in both cases goes back about five year's or more, it doesn't really change a lot about the perception of the current peloton.

People are saying, oh look Rasmussen doped up until 2010 but he was actually suspended for two years until late in the 2009 season. Were athletes who were suspended still tested during the period of suspension?

He says he stopped doping in 2010 but doesn't say when he stopped during that season. Why did he stop? We don't even know if Rasmussen was subject to the BP at that time? Maybe being subject to the BP is why he stopped which would actually back up JV more than anything!!!

There is also the case of LL Sanchez but again JV never said that everyone stopped doping or that things were perfect so of course there will be those who were still doping.

Until we get more info from these cases about more current times, nothing has really changed in term's of the the 'doping situation has improved' statement. Maybe JV will be made look a fool but I will wait for some more relevant current info before jumping to conclusions.

 

[sniper]

...

JV never said that everyone stopped doping

he did once say that he felt "cycling is now clean", but was obviously made to backtrack.

Well considering that most of the stuff that has come out in both cases goes back about five year's or more

I feel a bit uncomfortable having to point out to you that Bruyneel was in the game until 2012 and Riis still is in the game, and that the Leinders-revelations reflect very dangerously into the present as well. Furthermore, Lance's lies about 2009/10 shed a dark light on all the other affidavits in which cleanliness after 2006 was claimed. Gripper says she believes Lance. JV is a big Gripper fan.

Gripper McQuaid, Lance, the affidavits, Vaughters, all singing the same tune. Is this one big bloodpassport > clean cycling propaganda campagne or am I too cynical?

Rasmussen's 2005/6 data suggest the Biopassport ain't working.

In sum: It's not difficult to adduce evidence against clean(er) cycling.
Thus far JV's claims have been supported only by the loudness of his voice and the bottomless naivity (call it good faith if you will) of certain fans.

 

[neineinei]

Well considering that most of the stuff that has come out in both cases goes back about five year's or more, it doesn't really change a lot about the perception of the current peloton.

People are saying, oh look Rasmussen doped up until 2010 but he was actually suspended for two years until late in the 2009 season. Were athletes who were suspended still tested during the period of suspension?

He says he stopped doping in 2010 but doesn't say when he stopped during that season. Why did he stop? We don't even know if Rasmussen was subject to the BP at that time? Maybe being subject to the BP is why he stopped which would actually back up JV more than anything!!!

There is also the case of LL Sanchez but again JV never said that everyone stopped doping or that things were perfect so of course there will be those who were still doping.

Until we get more info from these cases about more current times, nothing has really changed in term's of the the 'doping situation has improved' statement. Maybe JV will be made look a fool but I will wait for some more relevant current info before jumping to conclusions.

Rasmussen says he stopped doping in the spring 2010. He says he stopped because he knew he wouldn't be winning big races anymore, he wouldn't get to ride Tour de France again. He hasn't said anything about the biological passport. He said he kept doping during his suspension because he thought all the teams would want "the world's best climber".

 

[JV1973]

he did once say that he felt "cycling is now clean", but was obviously made to backtrack.


I feel a bit uncomfortable having to point out to you that Bruyneel was in the game until 2012 and Riis still is in the game, and that the Leinders-revelations reflect very dangerously into the present as well. Furthermore, Lance's lies about 2009/10 shed a dark light on all the other affidavits in which cleanliness after 2006 was claimed. Gripper says she believes Lance. JV is a big Gripper fan.

Gripper McQuaid, Lance, the affidavits, Vaughters, all singing the same tune. Is this one big bloodpassport > clean cycling propaganda campagne or am I too cynical?

Rasmussen's 2005/6 data suggest the Biopassport ain't working.

In sum: It's not difficult to adduce evidence against clean(er) cycling.
Thus far JV's claims have been supported only by the loudness of his voice and the bottomless naivity (call it good faith if you will) of certain fans.

Ok, I'm going to refrain myself from calling you a low functioning Cretin. But that's out of love, not more.

2 facts:

Rasmussen would have never been tested in the bio passport system ever, why?

1. Bio-pass started in 2008 (not 2005-2006)

2. He was on a continental team after 2007. Conti teams don't get tested w bio-pass system.

before you start swinging the self righteous "we know better" blade, you might want to research the topic. just a bit.

xoxo, JV

 

[JV1973]

Ok, I'm going to refrain myself from calling you a low functioning Cretin. But that's out of love, not more.

2 facts:

Rasmussen would have never been tested in the bio passport system ever, why?

1. Its started in 2008

2. He was on a continental team. They don't get tested.

before you start swinging the self righteous "we know better" blade, you might want to research the topic. just a bit.

xoxo, JV

They don't get tested with Bio-Passport... just to clarify.

 

[will10]

He says he stopped doping in 2010 but doesn't say when he stopped during that season. Why did he stop? We don't even know if Rasmussen was subject to the BP at that time? Maybe being subject to the BP is why he stopped which would actually back up JV more than anything!!!

As Christina Watches were Continental they were not subject to the passport.

he did once say that he felt "cycling is now clean", but was obviously made to backtrack.


I feel a bit uncomfortable having to point out to you that Bruyneel was in the game until 2012 and Riis still is in the game, and that the Leinders-revelations reflect very dangerously into the present as well. Furthermore, Lance's lies about 2009/10 shed a dark light on all the other affidavits in which cleanliness after 2006 was claimed. Gripper says she believes Lance. JV is a big Gripper fan.

Gripper McQuaid, Lance, the affidavits, Vaughters, all singing the same tune. Is this one big bloodpassport > clean cycling propaganda campagne or am I too cynical?

Rasmussen's 2005/6 data suggest the Biopassport ain't working.

In sum: It's not difficult to adduce evidence against clean(er) cycling.
Thus far JV's claims have been supported only by the loudness of his voice and the bottomless naivity (call it good faith if you will) of certain fans.

The passport wasn't introduced until 2008.

EDIT: Damn, not only beaten to it but by the man himself.

 

[hrotha]

Frankly, the attempt to link every single doping story to JV is getting tiresome.

Anyway, JV, since you're here: have you seen Rasmussen's blood values? What do you make of them? Even to my totally untrained eye his 2007 TdF values look suspicious as hell, but the rest look a lot less clear-cut.

 

[sniper]

Frankly, the attempt to link every single doping story to JV is getting tiresome.

Anyway, JV, since you're here: have you seen Rasmussen's blood values? What do you make of them? Even to my totally untrained eye his 2007 TdF values look suspicious as hell, but the rest look a lot less clear-cut.

nice nuanced comment

you know that my beef is not with jv but with the "cycling is so much cleaner now" movement which imo jeopardizes (or at least slows down) currents attempts to change cycling. the movement is designed to throw mud into the eyes of the fans.
i can't help it that jv is the frontrunner of that movement. (see walsh's comments)