JV talks, sort of

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Whenever JV1983 comes on here he gets barraged from many posters and it's a useful excuse for him to take a huff and disappear.

Why don't a few here compile an agreed list of questions and ask for Vaughters to answer them in detail? I am thinking of some of the more intelligent, sceptical posters like The Hog, Benotti69, Science is Cool, the sceptic etc.

If he is serious about participating in the forum surely he could not object to this.
 
JV1973 said:
Yes, but many of things Digger says are lies. Yet, he is allowed this luxury. Interesting double standard.

Let's go through some examples:

Claims Thomas Dekker, hired due to a sponsorship deal. Ok... What sponsorship deal? Outright lie, yet speaks of this as truth and is believed.

Claims Magnus Backstedt retired due to irregular tests. Really? Then why hurriedly delete all the tweets claiming that when confronted? This one is so far from the truth. Yet, it's totally fine to smear the guy, then run away and hide when it gets a bit hot.

Just a few examples of The Karol throwing everything he has, no matter if it's true or not to prove his point. Win at all costs, eh Digger?


Hypocrisy. Embodied: Digger.



JV.


JV - you want to play that game - go for it.

A lie is where you knowingly say something is false. Iwas told about Magnus. As I was told about Dekker.

So you are denying that dekker was brought to the team because you were talking to a dutch sponsor and you thought it would help?

JV - you talk of lies. You've got some cheek.

I honestly would not believe the radio in your house.

You talk of second chances, you didn't give floyd one.

You talk of this sacrifice...you have done very well from Doug's money I may add.
It's very hard to take someone who says Lance is an all american hero seriously...or someone who basically backed him up in the SCA trial.

Listen i could go on and on.
 
ruamruam said:
Whenever JV1983 comes on here he gets barraged from many posters and it's a useful excuse for him to take a huff and disappear.

Why don't a few here compile an agreed list of questions and ask for Vaughters to answer them in detail? I am thinking of some of the more intelligent, sceptical posters like The Hog, Benotti69, Science is Cool, the sceptic etc.

If he is serious about participating in the forum surely he could not object to this.

Or it's a "good reason" for him to avoid the place". Don't think that kind of language is helping, and I for one appreciate that JV comes on here.

I think the barrage of questions shows folks are quite interested in what he has to say. I hope it can be kept respectful and pleasant this time.
 
May 26, 2010
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ruamruam said:
Whenever JV1983 comes on here he gets barraged from many posters and it's a useful excuse for him to take a huff and disappear.

Why don't a few here compile an agreed list of questions and ask for Vaughters to answer them in detail? I am thinking of some of the more intelligent, sceptical posters like The Hog, Benotti69, Science is Cool, the sceptic etc.

If he is serious about participating in the forum surely he could not object to this.

JV cant answer questions in detail. If he would or could do you not think they would be on his teams website.

What lots in here want to see is transparency and not using loads of science speak. We want teams to show us how their riders are achieving their wins so fans can cheer for the real McCoys, but that is not going to happen.

This and the other JV thread has lots of interesting questions that would ally people's suspicions......
 
red_flanders said:
Or it's a "good reason" for him to avoid the place". Don't think that kind of language is helping, and I for one appreciate that JV comes on here.

I think the barrage of questions shows folks are quite interested in what he has to say. I hope it can be kept respectful and pleasant this time.

That is why I think an agreed list of questions would be interesting. I think it would be much more informative.
 
May 2, 2010
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ruamruam said:
Whenever JV1983 comes on here he gets barraged from many posters and it's a useful excuse for him to take a huff and disappear.

Why don't a few here compile an agreed list of questions and ask for Vaughters to answer them in detail? I am thinking of some of the more intelligent, sceptical posters like The Hog, Benotti69, Science is Cool, the sceptic etc.

If he is serious about participating in the forum surely he could not object to this.

I think the main problem is that some get too emotionally invested in the discussion and just start labelling JV a liar or start abusing him. Mind you, JV is no angel and has certainly dished it out in the past.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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Digger said:
JV - you want to play that game - go for it.

A lie is where you knowingly say something is false. Iwas told about Magnus. As I was told about Dekker.

So you are denying that dekker was brought to the team because he brought sponsorship with him?

JV - you talk of lies. You've got some cheek.

I honestly would not believe the radio in your house.

You talk of second chances, you didn't give floyd one.

You talk of this sacrifice...you have done very well from Doug's money I may add.

Listen i could go on and on.

Dekker brought ZERO dollars of sponsorship with him and has brought in zero dollars of sponsorship since he's been here. If you would like me to email you the revenue related records of Slipstream Sports LLC to confirm, please send your email and I will.

I would actually say that throwing out rumors that you don't know if they are true or not is in many ways worse than a lie.

I didn't give Floyd a second chance. And I stand by that choice. I really like Floyd and will always be around to support him. But not as a bike racer.

I could go on and on too, Karol.

JV
 
Aug 17, 2009
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thrawn said:
I think the main problem is that some get too emotionally invested in the discussion and just start labelling JV a liar or start abusing him. Mind you, JV is no angel and has certainly dished it out in the past.

Yeah, but you guys started it. :)
 
Aug 17, 2009
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gooner said:
Dan Martin has asthma.

JV, has he used an inhaler during a race before?

Yes, absolutely. Dan's asthma is pretty severe at certain points during the year.

While there is most certainly a component of BS in the number of cases of asthma in sports, there is also a correlation between high volumes of intense training and a permanent state of inflammation in the bronchial tubes due to the volume of gases and allergens being inhaled and expired.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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i replied this in another thread to digger or benotti, ill cc

and Millar and even CvdV were target tested in Slipstream Chipotle's first TdF in 3008, when CvdV had the breakout performance and they did their pre-tour camp in StMoritz, and there were other standout performances by Danny Pate and Will Fischkorn and at the 2009 worlds in Mondrisio Steve Cozza the guy with the pervert mustache was one of the MVPs of that race, like Michael Barry (not a slipstream rider) in Hamilton.

And the genesis myth was Doug Ellis offered to bankroll, he instigated that conversation, a little like Bezos and ebay. Or, was it the salesman of JV73 who had networked well with cycling contacts and pitched Ellis. I no longer disbelieve or believe JV, i just maintain a rigorous skepticism, and interpret this thru the UniDenver at Boulder MBA prism.

Why? like the anal fact checking on the NewYorker, you realise when you get sold so much bullsh!t, at least you are confident in what the NewYorker offers. All in all, it goes to evidence on JV, that he can be a little slippery when he invokes truth, and when he invokes expediency.

ultimately, i am left to buy what i believe, versus buying his narrative
 
Aug 17, 2009
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ruamruam said:
If a list of questions were compiled would you give comprehensive answers to them?

Absolutely.. But I have two asks:

1. close this thread once they are answered.
2. you can't say i didn't answer if you didn't like the answer or if some of the information in the answer is legally confidential and I can't disclose to your satisfaction.
 
JV1973 said:
Absolutely.. But I have two asks:

1. close this thread once they are answered.
2. you can't say i didn't answer if you didn't like the answer or if some of the information in the answer is legally confidential and I can't disclose to your satisfaction.

Why close the thread?
 
JV1973 said:
Dekker brought ZERO dollars of sponsorship with him and has brought in zero dollars of sponsorship since he's been here. If you would like me to email you the revenue related records of Slipstream Sports LLC to confirm, please send your email and I will.

I would actually say that throwing out rumors that you don't know if they are true or not is in many ways worse than a lie.

I didn't give Floyd a second chance. And I stand by that choice. I really like Floyd and will always be around to support him. But not as a bike racer.

I could go on and on too, Karol.

JV

Dekker might have brought zero in the end - but was he signed in the hope of bringing a dutch sponsor you were talking to at the time 'over the line'?


Why did you not give him a second chance?
 
May 26, 2010
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The Hitch said:
JV seems to have forgotten that he did dope, and did lie.

If your career was based on those 2 things, and essentially all your success since has spawned from those, then at least aknowledge that.

When I was about 5 I was rude to my teacher and stuck a tongue out, and **** if I didn't feel guilty about it every single time I saw her from then till I left primary school 5 years later.

JV doesn't seem to have that.

He seems to think anyone who remotely doubts him is in the wrong. As if they have no right to do so.
If you lied and cheated then people have the right to do doubt you. Even if they are all in the wrong and all jerks and all would eat your dog, well it comes with the territory of having lied and cheated before.

It is every fans individual right to decide if they want to trust JV. And I don't see how anyone can truly be repentant if they consider the people they duped the once to have no right to doubt them the second time.

He's done some things for clean sport, some things to make me believe him, such as coming on here, and allowing Kimmage at the 2010 TDF, and I have defended him, but he doesn't these days even seem to aknowledge his own past these days.

His twitter handle says "I have dedicated my life to anti doping". Really?

If you doped and lied for much of your career, and you now want to help anti doping, then aknowledging that people won't trust you should the starting point. Rule number 1.

As the poem says

"If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too"

That applies doubly so if you lied to them in the first place.

As w-ankmeister cycling blog pointed out in a brilliant article on JV that has unfortunately since been taken down, any honorable action requires a sacrifice. JV doesn't seem to think there is any sacrifice. Or if there is he feels he's paid it, and everyone should welcome him back with open arms.
That's not his decision to make.

In this way he embodies the present attitude of the sport. The belief that doping can be fought without any sacrifice.

Calling Shane Stokes a dunce, using distractions rather than answering actual questions, his hypocrisy regarding ascent times, and worst of all for me keeping absolutely secret Hesjedal's doping history while riding a "clean gt winner" tag on him, then acting not only as if he had done nothing wrong but acting as if the fans should be thankful that Hesjedal confessed - in secret knowing there would be no repercussions:cool:

JV instead dismisses anyone who doubts, treats them as the enemy (even if they are in the wrong, you cheated earlier, you deal with it), then continues to behave dishonestly on several occasions such as the above.

If I had doped and cheated earlier I would feel red faced about it for the rest of my life and forever feel like I owe something. Doubly so if I continued to work in cycling.

Luckily for JV, and his general health I suppose, he has a different attitude.

What about addressing this post JV ^^^
 
Mar 13, 2009
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alot (me especially) cannot/will not, believe one can achieve success in cycling without PED.

alot (me especially) have no major gripe or value judgement, wrt to the doping. I can see the exigencies of running a business and competing on two fronts, commercial endorsement market, and professional sport, has a unique suite of factors influence(ing) operation.

alot (me especially ) realise competing on the road, which determines your ability to manage the media clients, is not for only you to control. It is triangulate within an environment that has had a history of PEDs from the beginning.

I dont ask you to compete with one hand tied behind your back. I dont think this would an ethical demand from me.

lots just dont like the spin and the narrative evoked, thats all. no offense implied, some just can buy it, and dont like it and will be resentful. you need to manage that contingent without just thinking folks are trolling or bullies.

no, they are venting. they dont buy the bill of goods.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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Digger said:
Dekker might have brought zero in the end - but was he signed in the hope of bringing a dutch sponsor you were talking to at the time 'over the line'?


Why did you not give him a second chance?

No, there was no Dutch sponsor that was even remotely interested in Dekker after his doping ban. In 2007-2008, ING was vaguely interested in cycling and perhaps Dekker. But we chose not to hire Dekker (pre ban) based on his blood values (he went to Lotto) and ING conversations never got very far.

Because I didn't believe that a rider at Floyd's age could come back after two very difficult years out of the sport and hip replacement surgery. Plus, I was encouraged by both UCI and ASO to not consider it. It took me a little while longer to find the balls to not care about what these guys had to say.

JV
 
Aug 17, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
What about addressing this post JV ^^^

Yeah, that is very tough to read. I don't feel it is accurate, but that's my opinion, not more.

It's a bummer Hitch feels that way about me.

I don't know what else to say.
 
Aug 17, 2009
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blackcat said:
alot (me especially) cannot/will not, believe one can achieve success in cycling without PED.

alot (me especially) have no major gripe or value judgement, wrt to the doping. I can see the exigencies of running a business and competing on two fronts, commercial endorsement market, and professional sport, has a unique suite of factors influence(ing) operation.

alot (me especially ) realise competing on the road, which determines your ability to manage the media clients, is not for only you to control. It is triangulate within an environment that has had a history of PEDs from the beginning.

I dont ask you to compete with one hand tied behind your back. I dont think this would an ethical demand from me.


lots just dont like the spin and the narrative evoked, thats all. no offense implied, some just can buy it, and dont like it and will be resentful. you need to manage that contingent without just thinking folks are trolling or bullies.

no, they are venting. they dont buy the bill of goods.

All of this is fine, but I would ask you to observe, first hand and in person (a la Kimmage) how our team operates, with no privacy encumbrances, before you make your conclusions.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Digger said:
Dekker might have brought zero in the end - but was he signed in the hope of bringing a dutch sponsor you were talking to at the time 'over the line'?


Why did you not give him a second chance?
was that ABN Amro the dutch I-bank when they were rumoured to be nibbling in cycling? maartijn maaskant not high profile enuff? but gees, was not his Paris Roooobay debut "surprising". yeah, added those quotation makrs for "affect"
 
Aug 17, 2009
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blackcat said:
was that ABN Amro the dutch I-bank when they were rumoured to be nibbling in cycling? maartijn maaskant not high profile enuff? but gees, was not his Paris Roooobay debut "surprising". yeah, added those quotation makrs for "affect"

ABN-AMRO was purchased in 2008 by SRB (I think?) ending our sponsorship with them.
 
JV1973 said:
Yeah, that is very tough to read. I don't feel it is accurate, but that's my opinion, not more.

It's a bummer Hitch feels that way about me.

I don't know what else to say.

What does Talansky and co. think of Froome's power and backstory? Are they calling him out behind closed doors?

Surely we can't be the only ones raising eyebrows?
 

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