JV talks, sort of

[JV1973]

What does Talansky and co. think of Froome's power and backstory? Are they calling him out behind closed doors?

Surely we can't be the only ones raising eyebrows?

You just hit on why I'm less suspect than I should be (considering the numbers)...I don't get the back stream chatter on Froome like I used to with Valverde, Hamilton, etc back in the day.

That could be due to a less permissive environment and therefor less information available via "rumor mill"...Or, it could be due to not doping. I don't know?

 

[Benotti69]

All of this is fine, but I would ask you to observe, first hand and in person (a la Kimmage) how our team operates, with no privacy encumbrances, before you make your conclusions.

Steve Tilford went and saw the 'operation' and make similar positive noises to Kimmage, But he has rethought those positive noises....i wonder would Kimmage do similar if he had to sit down and really take a long hard look at things as they stand. I think he too would revise his positive noises.

I like blackcat's post.

....

lots just dont like the spin and the narrative evoked, thats all. no offense implied, some just can buy it, and dont like it and will be resentful. you need to manage that contingent without just thinking folks are trolling or bullies.

no, they are venting. they dont buy the bill of goods.

 

[JV1973]

Steve Tilford went and saw the 'operation' and make similar positive noises to Kimmage, But he has rethought those positive noises....i wonder would Kimmage do similar if he had to sit down and really take a long hard look at things as they stand. I think he too would revise his positive noises.

Kimmage or Tilford have the same offer you do. Come and observe. Whenever, however. Happy for Kimmage to take another look.

 

[Digger]

You just hit on why I'm less suspect than I should be (considering the numbers)...I don't get the back stream chatter on Froome like I used to with Valverde, Hamilton, etc back in the day.

That could be due to a less permissive environment and therefor less information available via "rumor mill"...Or, it could be due to not doping. I don't know?

JV I will say this much - as I give you sh**, you are absolutely entitled to give it back.

However, I honestly think you are fighting back with the wrong people in people like Stokes...there are others you seem afraid of, and you say and do nothing. And guys like Stokes, as you know full well, are part of a very small group who is actually not afraid to do his job.


You talk a lot of bullying - but fighting back at the weaker ones, and ignoring the big ones...what's that....

 

[Benotti69]

Steve Tilford went and saw the 'operation' and make similar positive noises to Kimmage, But he has rethought those positive noises....i wonder would Kimmage do similar if he had to sit down and really take a long hard look at things as they stand. I think he too would revise his positive noises.

Kimmage or Tilford have the same offer you do. Come and observe. Whenever, however. Happy for Kimmage to take another look.

I would like to go fishing, not interested in a 'guided' tour of Garmin, but fishing yes.....

I would love Kimmage to go back and talk to all those 'ex' dopers and take away all their numbers, BP etc and go see someone like Ashenden with it all.

Sadly he works for a small newspaper who have no big interest in cycling.

What do you think of Walsh's PR job for Sky?

 

[JV1973]

Steve Tilford went and saw the 'operation' and make similar positive noises to Kimmage, But he has rethought those positive noises....i wonder would Kimmage do similar if he had to sit down and really take a long hard look at things as they stand. I think he too would revise his positive noises.

kind of funny about Tilford... people are screaming to have Froome release testing data. I actually invited Steve to come observe testing and the blood testing to go along with it. It wasn't to prove anything beyond that Tommy D is very physically talented and has high ability to shift oxygen without a correspondingly high hemoglobin level.

 

[blackcat]

All of this is fine, but I would ask you to observe, first hand and in person (a la Kimmage) how our team operates, with no privacy encumbrances, before you make your conclusions.

my "judgement" is based on the triangulation.

it is the D-Queued rule "marginal gains is not the rounding error on a comprehensive doping program".

a team can still run ethically on the inside, and Walsh see nuthin inside Brailsfords operation, that i can appreciate, but it is not the either-or, that is the false dichotomy. It can be both, one cannot manage a rider off campus who can manipulate but manage their blood values under the biopassport.

and as much as folks scream phrenology, androgens will change the physiognomy of an athlete. hgh shinier and waxier skin. more prominent bone structure. there is a quote of JV on cyclingnews site from about 5 years back, on balls shrinking and heads growing. it is not a long jaw, or prominent brow. it is "more" prominent, ceteris paribus. (this assumes one has an x-ray, and could baseline it, and neutralise from the atrophy of intrafacial tissue and lighting)

my rule of thumb working thesis is, just take an entire peloton from 1980, or even a jacky durand era, and compare it to a 2010 era. so you forget about individuals. Are their changes over time? why? more athletes from central/eastern europe or asia with differing racial characteristics, a double banger of eugenics AND phrenology (sarcasm chumps ) or just different camera technology, or techniques...

folks still dope in 2014. and it aint Armstrongs fault. and it aint Vaughters fault. And no one here is that stupid to believe it is Garmin's responsibility

 

[JV1973]

I would like to go fishing, not interested in a 'guided' tour of Garmin, but fishing yes.....

I would love Kimmage to go back and talk to all those 'ex' dopers and take away all their numbers, BP etc and go see someone like Ashenden with it all.

Sadly he works for a small newspaper who have no big interest in cycling.

What do you think of Walsh's PR job for Sky?

No problem. I love fishing. Anytime.

I find Walsh to be intelligent and very observational. I have a long friendship with David(2003) and find him very trustworthy. I'd say the exact same about Kimmage. That's about all I have to say.

 

[Benotti69]

Steve Tilford went and saw the 'operation' and make similar positive noises to Kimmage, But he has rethought those positive noises....i wonder would Kimmage do similar if he had to sit down and really take a long hard look at things as they stand. I think he too would revise his positive noises.

kind of funny about Tilford... people are screaming to have Froome release testing data. I actually invited Steve to come observe testing and the blood testing to go along with it. It wasn't to prove anything beyond that Tommy D is very physically talented and has high ability to shift oxygen without a correspondingly high hemoglobin level.

I read his piece on TD and he made some pretty convincing arguments.

Did you test Froome?

Who owns the data when you test a rider?

Can you release that data if you own it?

 

[thehog]

Kimmage or Tilford have the same offer you do. Come and observe. Whenever, however. Happy for Kimmage to take another look.

If theHog pays his own way (not beers) can he come along and observe? It will be a Clinic special by the Hog.

Won't be shaving anyone's legs though.

 

[the sceptic]

You just hit on why I'm less suspect than I should be (considering the numbers)...I don't get the back stream chatter on Froome like I used to with Valverde, Hamilton, etc back in the day.

That could be due to a less permissive environment and therefor less information available via "rumor mill"...Or, it could be due to not doping. I don't know?

What do you think of Horner? Is the peloton as quiet about him as with Froome?

 

[JV1973]

If theHog pays his own way (not beers) can he come along and observe? It will be a Clinic special by the Hog.

Won't be shaving anyone's legs though.

Sure thing.

 

[the sceptic]

If theHog pays his own way (not beers) can he come along and observe? It will be a Clinic special by the Hog.

Won't be shaving anyone's legs though.

only if you write a book about it

 

[lllludo]

You just hit on why I'm less suspect than I should be (considering the numbers)...I don't get the back stream chatter on Froome like I used to with Valverde, Hamilton, etc back in the day.
That could be due to a less permissive environment and therefor less information available via "rumor mill"...Or, it could be due to not doping. I don't know?

There could be plenty of other reasons why you don't get the back stream. Your guys like Froome and can't see him as a suspect, may be you were closer to the riders and the field when Hamilton and co were cheating and plenty of other possibilities...
existing "Rumor mill" = potential cheat ; no rumor mill = no conclusion don"t you think ?

 

[BYOP88]

only if you write a book about it

A proper book or a Walsh book?

 

[JV1973]

JV I will say this much - as I give you sh**, you are absolutely entitled to give it back.

However, I honestly think you are fighting back with the wrong people in people like Stokes...there are others you seem afraid of, and you say and do nothing. And guys like Stokes, as you know full well, are part of a very small group who is actually not afraid to do his job.


You talk a lot of bullying - but fighting back at the weaker ones, and ignoring the big ones...what's that....

I don't want to give you ****. I just don't want you denigrating me when I state my opinion. That's really it. Same applies to Shane. I know that both of you want the same thing that I do. I get that.

I don't know who you mean by the big ones, but point it out to me, and I'll happily fight back. I think Verbruggen will confirm this for you.

JV

 

[thehog]

Sure thing.

Cool. I need to set up some stuff in Europe after the Tour. I'll be in touch. I'll be nice I promise.

Clinic special on Garmin.

 

[Miburo]

Many pointed this out. I wonder if you can do us a favor, i know this ain't your job though.

Can you ask Brailsford why he said multiple attacks aren't possible anymore in the clean era but Froome is doing it every time?

That would be very nice of you

 

[blackcat]

Sure thing.

hog runs his own brazilian waxing salon.

Hog, only sportsmen and actors will speak in third person.

If theHog pays his own way (not beers) can he come along and observe? It will be a Clinic special by the Hog.

Won't be shaving anyone's legs though.

#no_gifts

 

[JV1973]

Many pointed this out. I wonder if you can do us a favor, i know this ain't your job though.

Can you ask Brailsford why he said multiple attacks aren't possible anymore in the clean era but Froome is doing it every time?

That would be very nice of you

I wish I knew. I don't.


On that note, I've now spent the first hour of Go To Market class typing answers here. I gotta end the addiction to the clinic and start taking notes or I'm going to flunk. I gave out my email in an earlier post. Feel free to contact me there. a few of you already have.

Bye! JV

 

[deValtos]

What do you think of Horner? Is the peloton as quiet about him as with Froome?

Actually as a generealization of this question @JV, you say you don't hear any "backchatter" about Froome ... but do you hear any rumours/backchatter concerning any riders in the pro peloton ? (you don't have to name them ofc)

Or is it all pretty quiet these days ?

 

[blackcat]

A proper book or a Walsh book?

if only i had kept the email from him after the breakout ride with Garmin or HighRoad. I have a feeling the email correspondence, it was only one email reply in question, and maybe only one email tops, two at most, where he affirmed my suspicion on wiggins. so we are going back to 2008 or 2009. Giro or Tour. I got a feeling, it was Bob Stapleton and Columbia. never thought i would be in need of it. And ethically, prolly would have been out of bounds to use, unless Walsh then went and spun and lied his @rse off, which he ended up doing. would have been an easier decision for me

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I appreciate that JV comes in here and engage ( though i am not particularly a fan as i have told him and he explained his postion then) but aren't we getting to hostile/aggresive on him a tad..sometimes.

 

[Benotti69]

I appreciate that JV comes in here and engage ( though i am not particularly a fan as i have told him and he explained his postion then) but aren't we getting to hostile/aggresive on him a tad..sometimes.

Ah Zam, he loves it the argyle clad wearing little tart, sure doesn't he keep coming back for more

 

[GuyIncognito]

Bye! JV

Thanks for coming here and answering questions. With all my heart