ihatescarves said:
Incompetence, laziness or just screwing with everyone.
Pick one. Either way....exposed and loss of credibility.
blackcat said:
Ha! The MODS can confirm??
Everyone should rest easy... The fox is not in the henhouse. Whew...
BotanyBay said:
Well my opinion of Landis is made, however he spins it now and tries to take all the other cheaters down (at long last), he's a liar and an opportunist, and generally speaking a low-life, having said that it would still be interesting to fill in the holes and put the pieces together. I couldn't believe my eyes when I found that ESPN article where LA said he wasn't ruling out bringing Landis in his team after his comeback!
- Dec 7, 2010
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wildeone said:bad bruises every single time here. i supposedly have difficult veins
I suppose everyone reacts differently. I also had 24 injections over the last six months, bruised and irritated every time.
But the blood tests and I just got one yesterday no bruises.
- Jul 9, 2009
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- Jul 27, 2010
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I skipped more than a dozen pages of this thread that I don't have time to read, so maybe this was brought up before:
Wrt Floyd supposedly winning the Dauphine clean. I'm not going to say that's a clean race, but I bet there's a lot less doping there than in the TDF. Reason: so many of the TDF contenders use it as training, and winning it is not high priority.
Bert is a good example this past year. He finished second behind Brak, a good result for anyone except the best GT rider of this generation. Then look at how those two compared in the TDF. I find it particularly interesting that Bert lost most of his time in the DL in the ITT, this being the same guy who beat Cancellara in the TDF the year before.
There are lots of other examples. LA got destroyed by Mayo in the DL in 04, I think it was. Floyd himself did very poorly in the Dauphine in 2006, the year he won P-N, Georgia and California on the way to winning the Tour. Conversely, and I think it speaks to the same point, Levi won the DL the following year, then had a miserable TDF.
I'm sure there's some doping in the DL, but think about it. f I were a rider who had targeted the TDF as my big race of the season, I would not want to take a big risk getting busted in a preparation race. In fact, if you're blood doping, and not freezing your red cells, you probably have to withdraw blood sometime in June prior to a pre-Tour transfusion, so you might not be at your best in the DL, even if you wanted to go all out.
Now granted, Floyd in 2002 was not in that position of focussing his entire season around the TDF. At that point in his career doing well in the Dauphine would be a huge step forward. But in a field with a lot of riders not going all out, the opportunity to do very well clean would be enhanced.
Wrt Floyd supposedly winning the Dauphine clean. I'm not going to say that's a clean race, but I bet there's a lot less doping there than in the TDF. Reason: so many of the TDF contenders use it as training, and winning it is not high priority.
Bert is a good example this past year. He finished second behind Brak, a good result for anyone except the best GT rider of this generation. Then look at how those two compared in the TDF. I find it particularly interesting that Bert lost most of his time in the DL in the ITT, this being the same guy who beat Cancellara in the TDF the year before.
There are lots of other examples. LA got destroyed by Mayo in the DL in 04, I think it was. Floyd himself did very poorly in the Dauphine in 2006, the year he won P-N, Georgia and California on the way to winning the Tour. Conversely, and I think it speaks to the same point, Levi won the DL the following year, then had a miserable TDF.
I'm sure there's some doping in the DL, but think about it. f I were a rider who had targeted the TDF as my big race of the season, I would not want to take a big risk getting busted in a preparation race. In fact, if you're blood doping, and not freezing your red cells, you probably have to withdraw blood sometime in June prior to a pre-Tour transfusion, so you might not be at your best in the DL, even if you wanted to go all out.
Now granted, Floyd in 2002 was not in that position of focussing his entire season around the TDF. At that point in his career doing well in the Dauphine would be a huge step forward. But in a field with a lot of riders not going all out, the opportunity to do very well clean would be enhanced.
Merckx index said:
It is a different level.
Look at TJvG in the Vuelta, after the first ten days he had nothing, getting outclimbed by Allan Davis... TJ also finished 3rd in the Dauphine in his first full year as a pro.
Of course that's nothing to say Floyd would have got hammered in GTs, but it's a suggestion.
Just finished reading. My takeaways:
1. Kimmage for UCI president. If he'd stoop so low as to take the position.
2. Floyd penniless is a better man than Armstrong ever could hope to be.
And lastly:
3. Cyclingnews, you suck. As if it wasn't obvious to anyone w/ an ounce of objectivity in their waterbottle. Hey, maybe there's still some journo positions open *elsewhere* [edited by mod]
1. Kimmage for UCI president. If he'd stoop so low as to take the position.
2. Floyd penniless is a better man than Armstrong ever could hope to be.
And lastly:
3. Cyclingnews, you suck. As if it wasn't obvious to anyone w/ an ounce of objectivity in their waterbottle. Hey, maybe there's still some journo positions open *elsewhere* [edited by mod]
- Mar 18, 2009
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+1.thehog said:
By deduction, the people who think he's lying now... I mean, did they think he was telling the truth before about not doping? About the '06 Tour positive being a false positive?
Look, if you think he's lying now, then you must believe he was telling the truth before. And the vise versa is also be true. I fall in the vise versa camp because I never believed his positive for testosterone at the '06 Tour to be a false positive.
I know what you're thinking. It's more complex than that.
But isn't.
His motivation for lying about the '06 TdF positive is so obvious it doesn't need explanation. The motivation behind his current statements, if they are fabrications, don't seem to have an explanation. In other words, why would he lie now? Just for the sake of lying? Because he enjoys being sued? Because he wants the championship belt for being the world's biggest liar? Because he's mentally ill?
The person in the interview I just read seemed sane to me. Repentant.
Hey, if you believed him the first time but don't believe him now, okay. That makes sense to me because you must have believed Armstrong was clean and Landis was clean. So in the present tense, that makes for a very simple argument: Armstrong is clean and Landis is a liar.
Now, you could say that you believed him then, but that you also believe him now because you've had a change of heart. That makes sense. But you can't say you didn't believe him then and you don't believe him now. That doesn't make sense. His motivation for lying then is obvious. His motivation for lying now is, what? A book deal? Based on lies? Money for interviews? So he can be sued? He's got it in for the people he's lying about?
One could argue that he's mentally ill. And if he is, then we all just throw up our hands.
His motivation for telling the truth now seems simple: he can't live with the lie.
Listen, what he's saying now isn't going to hang around like six positives and slowly foment into opinion. We're going to find out if what he is saying now is fact. Federal investigations normally reach resolute conclusions. I would venture to guess that these big publications wouldn't print Landis' story if the facts weren't pretty well vetted.
- Oct 29, 2009
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HelmutRoole said:
Nope, it isn't an either or.
option C) pants on fire in '06. A lot more confident that the vast majority of what we hear now is indeed close to the bone, or close to what he believes is the bone. I have no way to know for sure if we now are hearing it all, and if how accurate his recollection and interpretation at the time was.
- Mar 18, 2009
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Francois the Postman said:
Well that's true about anyone's honest attempt at recollecting events. What I'm saying is an either or: he's either trying to honestly set the record straight or he's lying.
And if he's lying now, then you must believe he was telling the truth the first time.
Now, I don't think we're hearing everything but I don't think he's lying by omission. So, what we don't know, that could be considered a gray area.
- Jun 18, 2009
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You know, while I certainly understand the reason for him still lying regarding the testosterone positive (and I really don't care either way), I believed him then and I believe him now.
And I say that as someone who pretty much knew he was transfusing his own blood. The science behind the test is dodgy, and remember 1/3 of the CAS panel didn't find enough proof either.
In the end, it really wouldn't surprise me if that's why he fought it so hard, "yeah, I doped, but I didn't do THAT, so I can beat this thing!"
As I said though, I don't care either way. Whether he's mostly truthful now or completely truthful, his comments on the state of the sport and its governing body ring as true to me now as his "I'll say no" comments rang as false back then.
And I say that as someone who pretty much knew he was transfusing his own blood. The science behind the test is dodgy, and remember 1/3 of the CAS panel didn't find enough proof either.
In the end, it really wouldn't surprise me if that's why he fought it so hard, "yeah, I doped, but I didn't do THAT, so I can beat this thing!"
As I said though, I don't care either way. Whether he's mostly truthful now or completely truthful, his comments on the state of the sport and its governing body ring as true to me now as his "I'll say no" comments rang as false back then.
- Aug 13, 2009
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Mongol_Waaijer said:
Yes, the needles used to "Put Blood in" are much larger. They are regulated by WADA.
Some have talked about how they have had blood tests with no bruises. These tests are done with a much smaller needle so the likelihood of bruising is low.
Francois the Postman said:
The "pants on fire" made me think a bit more about his attitude in 2006 after the news broke. When you read his interview he makes it sound like his brain completely froze on him and that he was in total panic...that would make sense, but the strange is thing is that he just looked "careless" during these interviews, the Madrid one at least, brushing off the positive as being an effect of Whisky he had drunk the night before. He seemed pretty composed, what an actor!
He did say that Rihs' lawyers said they couldn't help him, but what about Lelangue, where did he go after that meeting in Paris. He makes it sound like he was on his own with Amber, that he didn't have any "advisors" like LA, surely many people had a lot to lose and would have been trying to help him...or not and they come back quietly in the ProTour like Lelangue and Rihs.
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