Kimmage on Wiggins, Sky

[thehog]

If he was born in 1985 how could he be 20 in 2004?

I stand corrected. Shows I shouldn't take what Michele says as virtue

The point remains, he wasn't at school.

PK: Basso was 11th in ’02, 7th in ’03, 3rd in ’04 and 2nd in ’05. And a year later he was busted in Operation Puerto.

MC: Then you were much older . . . you were about 20, then.

CF: Okay, that’s strange. I really thought I had seen them going head-to-head in the boarding house.

 

[The Hitch]

Again elsewhere,

A year and a half ago.



http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jan/25/chris-froome-sky-tour-de-france

Eh he makes the same mistake there

"No. The first Tour I watched was between Armstrong and Basso in the mountains. It was on TV in the boarding house at St Johns' [school in Johannesburg]. I was 17 and I was fixed on it. I was in awe of the ambience of the crowd and the mountains. I had that 'Wow, I'd love to do that one day' feeling. That was the pipe dream but I never really – until recently – thought it'd come true."

Froome was not 17 in 2005. And according to his own autobiography, he was not in St Johns' boarding house in 2005 either.

 

[The Hitch]

I stand corrected. Shows I should take what Michele says as virtue

The point remains, he wasn't at school.

No Michele was right about that. It was the 2005 Tour. Froome says it was basso vs armstrong in the mountains which was 2005. Froome was 20 in 2005.

Froome then changes his mind and says, actually it was some tour when Basso only won a stage rather than fight for the overall.

Which was 2004 and Froome would have been 19. So not 16 and not at St John's boarding house either.

 

[mewmewmew13]

These 'folksy' little memories are starting to catch him up.
As he makes more errors in his recollections MC is going to get harsher.

PK did a good job of not missing a beat. Whoever said it earlier.."kimmage smelled blood"...I would have loved to have shared a pint or two with Kimmage after he did that interview.

 

[BYOP88]

Froome could've been at school when he watched Basso and Armstrong in 2004, unless his snakes could operate a phone at that point and order take out. #snakesgottaeat

 

[Merckx index]

Have to throw some doubt into this. A lot of research (much of it by Beth Loftus, whom I knew back in the day) has shown how easily memories can be made up. In fact, every time we recall an event, we change it to some extent in the process; memories are not static, they are constantly changing. Conflating events like this is not unknown by any means.

Because Froome was an adult or near adult when the event took place, and because he's only about ten years beyond that event, I would have thought the memory would be better. But remember Basso was in the Tour every year from 2002-05, and even in 2002 he was hardly a nobody. He finished 11th, and was the white jersey. I can't access the detailed information from that Tour, but is it certain he never challenged LA on any mountain stage? Even if not, the name might have stuck with Froome, then later, when he saw or learned about the 2004 and 2005 races, that information could have been stored and conflated with the earlier memories.

At worst, if this is a lie, it's just one to make the story better, maybe as in the book Three Cups of Tea. Whether it should be regarded as evidence that he lies about everything is questionable. In any case, there is enough evidence of other inconsistencies in that interview that it really isn't necessary to spend a lot of energy demonstrating that he lied about this.

 

[Tyre Byter]

Kimmage is a blade runner. Tyrell Corp needs to recall the Froome model for a false memory tweak!

 

[Sciocco]

Have to throw some doubt into this. A lot of research (much of it by Beth Loftus, whom I knew back in the day) has shown how easily memories can be made up. In fact, every time we recall an event, we change it to some extent in the process; memories are not static, they are constantly changing. Conflating events like this is not unknown by any means.

Because Froome was an adult or near adult when the event took place, and because he's only about ten years beyond that event, I would have thought the memory would be better. But remember Basso was in the Tour every year from 2002-05, and even in 2002 he was hardly a nobody. He finished 11th, and was the white jersey. I can't access the detailed information from that Tour, but is it certain he never challenged LA on any mountain stage? Even if not, the name might have stuck with Froome, then later, when he saw or learned about the 2004 and 2005 races, that information could have been stored and conflated with the earlier memories.

At worst, if this is a lie, it's just one to make the story better, maybe as in the book Three Cups of Tea. Whether it should be regarded as evidence that he lies about everything is questionable. In any case, there is enough evidence of other inconsistencies in that interview that it really isn't necessary to spend a lot of energy demonstrating that he lied about this.

Yes to all of this, so many other things in the interview to focus on. I.e. Barlo injections.

On one of the first things you will learn about in a psychology course is how terrible (not really the right word) human memory is (unless your professor prefers starting with social and/or biological psychology...).

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The Tour happens during school holidays in Johannesburg.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Curious that a kid that started racing in 2001 didn't watch the Tour till 2002 / 2004 / whenever.

 

[thehog]

Have to throw some doubt into this. A lot of research (much of it by Beth Loftus, whom I knew back in the day) has shown how easily memories can be made up. In fact, every time we recall an event, we change it to some extent in the process; memories are not static, they are constantly changing. Conflating events like this is not unknown by any means.

Because Froome was an adult or near adult when the event took place, and because he's only about ten years beyond that event, I would have thought the memory would be better. But remember Basso was in the Tour every year from 2002-05, and even in 2002 he was hardly a nobody. He finished 11th, and was the white jersey. I can't access the detailed information from that Tour, but is it certain he never challenged LA on any mountain stage? Even if not, the name might have stuck with Froome, then later, when he saw or learned about the 2004 and 2005 races, that information could have been stored and conflated with the earlier memories.

At worst, if this is a lie, it's just one to make the story better, maybe as in the book Three Cups of Tea. Whether it should be regarded as evidence that he lies about everything is questionable. In any case, there is enough evidence of other inconsistencies in that interview that it really isn't necessary to spend a lot of energy demonstrating that he lied about this.

Again I don't think the Basso story means a lot on its own. But together with everything else it just adds up into the total fabrication of his backstory.

Basso in 2002 was riding for Fassa Bortiolo and he won the white jersey 20mins down on Armstrong. He did a few crazy attacks on the lead group on the climbs to try and win a stage but got mowed down. Not at any stage was Basso duelling Armstrong on the climbs. Basso was just hanging on.

In saying that basso was remembered well from that Tour. Because he'd won the U/23 worlds he was meant to be the next Coppii, Moser or whatever and they saw this a Tour as his "arrival".

Maybe that's what Froome liked? His youthful eagerness? But again the dates are all out of whack, the year, the school, everything. Just rolls up into another Froomism along with everything else...

 

[mewmewmew13]

My mouth was a bit open when reading about the Barlo injections..it reminded me of the US olympics in '84 when the 'coaches' were injecting B-vitamins and such...
and Froome just said they 'explained it' and he never gave it another thought.

Really???

 

[purcell]

The Tour happens during school holidays in Johannesburg.

Classic. Maybe he was in for remedial work?

 

[the sceptic]

My mouth was a bit open when reading about the Barlo injections..it reminded me of the US olympics in '84 when the 'coaches' were injecting B-vitamins and such...
and Froome just said they 'explained it' and he never gave it another thought.

Really???

I hope Froome was clean for the jock strap race. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one, but now I dont know what to think anymore..

 

[thehog]

I hope Froome was clean for the jock strap race. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one, but now I dont know what to think anymore..

I've just checked and Fluimacil is safe to use on horses so it should be ok. Just an amino acid!

Yes the Jock Race is in doubt now. We need retro testing of his samples from that race.

 

[The Hitch]

Have to throw some doubt into this. A lot of research (much of it by Beth Loftus, whom I knew back in the day) has shown how easily memories can be made up. In fact, every time we recall an event, we change it to some extent in the process; memories are not static, they are constantly changing. Conflating events like this is not unknown by any means.

Because Froome was an adult or near adult when the event took place, and because he's only about ten years beyond that event, I would have thought the memory would be better. But remember Basso was in the Tour every year from 2002-05, and even in 2002 he was hardly a nobody. He finished 11th, and was the white jersey. I can't access the detailed information from that Tour, but is it certain he never challenged LA on any mountain stage? Even if not, the name might have stuck with Froome, then later, when he saw or learned about the 2004 and 2005 races, that information could have been stored and conflated with the earlier memories.

At worst, if this is a lie, it's just one to make the story better, maybe as in the book Three Cups of Tea. Whether it should be regarded as evidence that he lies about everything is questionable. In any case, there is enough evidence of other inconsistencies in that interview that it really isn't necessary to spend a lot of energy demonstrating that he lied about this.

Everyone gets 1 chance at misremebering things. Froome misremembers everything and then you have Brailsford misremembering things as well.

And the best bit is all these false memories always have so much detail to them.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Classic. Maybe he was in for remedial work?

I looked at the distance from Nairobi to Jo'burg (or did he live elsewhere as a kid?) and it's quite far - but then the Cape Argus Pick n Pay is 1400km one way from Jo'burg to Cape Town, and he raced that in 2001 in both March and then the ride in November, so it's not like he couldn't have gone home for the holidays in June/July, you'd think?

Interesting.

Is there info on where he lived as a kid?

 

[Beech Mtn]

I looked at the distance from Nairobi to Jo'burg (or did he live elsewhere as a kid?) and it's quite far - but then the Cape Argus Pick n Pay is 1400km one way from Jo'burg to Cape Town, and he raced that in 2001 in both March and then the ride in November, so it's not like he couldn't have gone home for the holidays in June/July, you'd think?

Interesting.

Is there info on where he lived as a kid?

It was across the street from the missing rabbit school. Hoggy will have to look up the town name in the book. But I think I recall him saying somewhere something about him & his mom moving house a lot. And then he moved to South Africa at 14, I think.

 

[hiero2]

Everyone gets 1 chance at misremebering things. Froome misremembers everything and then you have Brailsford misremembering things as well.

And the best bit is all these false memories always have so much detail to them.

For once, recently, hitch, we agree.

The 1st half struck me as disingenous. The 2nd half sounded like a game of dodgeball.

 

[sittingbison]

My mouth was a bit open when reading about the Barlo injections..it reminded me of the US olympics in '84 when the 'coaches' were injecting B-vitamins and such...
and Froome just said they 'explained it' and he never gave it another thought.

Really???

I bring your attention to the recent ASADA investigation into Cronulla Rugby League team and Essendon Australian Football team, and the current issuing "please explain" to 34 Essendon footy players for allowing themselves to be injected by a "sport scientist" (not th club doctor) with various unknown substances conjectured to be amongst other things PED Thymosin B. These young men signed a waiver allowing the club to inject them with whatever (waiver signed under duress with the manager present implying sign or else contract not renewed)

The euphamism for this team based systematic doping is "supplements program"

Discussion in the Australian Spoert Comission thread

 

[sittingbison]

Curious that a kid that started racing in 2001 didn't watch the Tour till 2002 / 2004 / whenever.

I...Is there info on where he lived as a kid?

It was across the street from the missing rabbit school....

Too busy honing his bike handling skill by practicing tricks on the kindy ramps...and breaking into the classroom to steal the pet rabbits

 

[argyllflyer]

The other thing that was weird is that he remembers rooting for a rider in the Tour - the first one he watched - but has no idea what year it was, whether or not he was watching it at boarding school, was he a schoolboy, was he 20 years old...?

It's so odd.

To be fair, when I started going out of my way to watch the sport, late in the Armstrong '7', the first few times I was only seeing the odd stage here and there of the tour and names didn't stick. I do remember watching the year Landis won but for me it took repeat viewings in successive years to go beyond watching for the scenery and the mountain stages, mainly because in the UK once the Tour went, so did the coverage.

So I can kind of forgive him for having a hazy memory about what races he saw and didn't see at school.

 

[Digger]

First memory - visentini roche, '87, tifosi spitting on roche - done...how can it be so hard to remember something. Especially when he was an adult, not a child.
But then he wasn't even sure of the bilharzia timeline, they made a joke about his memory.


some people have said cound is off limits...after yesterday, and the way she is now part of the story, she is no longer off limits.

 

[Dalakhani]

The other thing that was weird is that he remembers rooting for a rider in the Tour - the first one he watched - but has no idea what year it was, whether or not he was watching it at boarding school, was he a schoolboy, was he 20 years old...?

To be fair, when I started going out of my way to watch the sport, late in the Armstrong '7', the first few times I was only seeing the odd stage here and there of the tour and names didn't stick. I do remember watching the year Landis won but for me it took repeat viewings in successive years to go beyond watching for the scenery and the mountain stages, mainly because in the UK once the Tour went, so did the coverage.

So I can kind of forgive him for having a hazy memory about what races he saw and didn't see at school.

And I can remember switching Ch4 on and seeing Indurain fans on the Champs, chanting his name.

I wasn't into cycling and couldn't tell you which year that was, but even if I'd never subsequently gotten into cycling, I could have said it was the the early 1990s. That's because I had heard of Indurain from a guy I worked with at that time.

I was working => not a schoolboy and not a student.

The point was that he was "rooting" for someone. That suggests he was emotionally involved.

His story also involves watching it in a particular room on a particular TV - possibly surrounded by school boys, many of whom would have been rooting for the rival guy...

 

[elduggo]

Manager / handler?

in this case more handler than manager I would have said