Kimmage on Wiggins, Sky

[Dazed and Confused]

These 'folksy' little memories are starting to catch him up.
As he makes more errors in his recollections MC is going to get harsher.

snipped..

Life can be tough in the Froome household.

 

[Avoriaz]

I looked at the distance from Nairobi to Jo'burg (or did he live elsewhere as a kid?) and it's quite far - but then the Cape Argus Pick n Pay is 1400km one way from Jo'burg to Cape Town, and he raced that in 2001 in both March and then the ride in November, so it's not like he couldn't have gone home for the holidays in June/July, you'd think?

Interesting.

Is there info on where he lived as a kid?

His mum was in Kenya, and after the split his father moved to South Africa. Split his time between the two

 

[Dear Wiggo]

His mum was in Kenya, and after the split his father moved to South Africa. Split his time between the two

Thanks.

Watching the Tour at school during school holidays seems strange then, given that. However, as others have said - not the strangest thing from the interview. Just trying to reconcile the story.

 

[Cycle Chic]

Gerrie Nel

Your version is highly IMPROBABLE MR FROOME

 

[Journey Man]

PR own goal

I think between: the book; Cound's snide Twitter commentary and rantings; and this odd, muddled, at times contradictory, interview this has been a PR own goal for Froome.

Due to his belief he shouldn't have had to work for Wiggins in '12 and should have had an equal footing; attacking his leader in the yellow jersey being acceptable; and then the vindictive, arrogant passages in the book, I find it hard to believe that ethics are such an insurmountable hurdle for Froome with regards to doping. Regarding Barlo: he seemed very quickly convinced by the team about taking vitamin bags. Trusting the fox to be acting in the best interest of the hens...

It's all very bizarre. Cound stepping in to stir the pot about who Sky had forced Froome to ride a bike adjusted to Wiggin's fit; how other riders are untrustworthy around women, etc... It's just petty, vindictive and telling of the character of the pair.

I think Wiggins handled the 2012 situation poorly. I wasn't a fan in 2012, and thought Sky turned the race into a procession but I can empathise that a moment which was supposed to be his crowning glory turned into a circus of people saying perhaps Froome could have won instead. I can appreciate how that would form deep personal rifts.

On a separate note, did Froome put the second place winnings into the pot for the entire team? After all, the team also put him there as much as they did Wiggins in yellow.

I have warmed to Wiggins throughout this and, whilst I was prepared to give Froome the benefit of the doubt, things like these inconsistent, dubious interview responses and constant contradictions make me feel it's all a constructed pile of cr*p. Surely I'm not alone?

A massive PR own goal from Froome. Has Cound ANY experience in athlete management prior to Froome???

 

[RownhamHill]

Unless you have somehting to add this looks like a pathetic attempt at trolling to me.

Froome gets caught lying in an interview, contradicts things he said before and people here are actually linking to the previous interviews and hilighting what he said and showing how it contradicts what he says now.

And your retort is a childish implication that everyone is biased?

Fair enough response, but wasn't intended as a retort, just an observation. I was watching Germany Algeria at the same time so my mind wasn't on posting and was thinking 'out loud' (as far as you can on a forum).

So let me add something so that you don't think it's a pathetic attempt at trolling.

First, to deal with your last line. Everyone is biased. Everyone. Everywhere. All the time. I'm not going to debate that point, but just stating my own opinion on that to frame the rest of what I'm going to say. Even if you disagree with that statement, please hold it in your head as you read the rest of this.

So, I saw the link on the forum, and read the second part of the interview before I read the comments. I've never been a huge fan of Froome's, and in recent weeks (the book, the ashtma, the TUE, the Wiggins situation) have been increasingly tipping over into active dislike of him. On the other hand I generally err on the side of caution when coming to making judgement on people or accusing them of cheating. (That's a brief explanation of my own bias, BTW)

So, I read the interview, and I thought he came across quite well. I didn't think there's anything notable about getting the year of Basso wrong, I just assumed he was conflating two memories (probably saw the tour at school as described, watched the Armstrong Basso duel later on, and has conflated the two memories, would be my guess - if you've ever got in a disagreement with a sibling about when some childhood memory actually occurred you'll know it happens all the time).

Generally I thought he answered all the questions fairly, I didn't get the sense he was particularly ducking, I thought the insight into the Froome/Conde double act was fascinating, and I finished reading the interview actually feeling more positive about Froome than I had for a couple of years. This is, of course, my own confirmation bias kicking in.

Then, I read the comments here, and other posters have read the interview and have had the complete opposite reaction. Now, if you want to pretend to yourself that you're a completely objective, fair minded judge, then fair enough, there's not much point in trying to have a conversation, but suffice to say that lots of the posters reacting negatively to the interview here have previously articulated views that they believe he is doping.

So, if you read this thread through with your eyes open to people's existing beliefs (as they articulate them here, I obviously don't know what anyone truly believes in real life, especially not thehog) it's fascinating to see how we all create our own narratives to suit those beliefs. I wasn't making judgement on who's right or wrong, just making an observation about a fascinating psychological process which we all engage in.

So yeah. There you go.

 

[RownhamHill]

Just leave it Hitch, that bait isn't even fresh enough to catch crabs...

<cockney accent> leave it phil, he's not worth it </cockney accent>

 

[vedrafjord]

Ok.

But that's not what Chris said though is it?

If Chris had said - "i started watching when Basso was racing but I couldn't tell you what year it was". No one would have blinked.

But he didn't.

Chris said he very much could remember. He remembered every detail. How he was in school. He can tell you where the school was and what it was called. How the tv was on and it was only on the TDF because the headmaster was a cycling fan.

And it turns out, it wasn't true.

I went to Glastonbury a few times and the weather was usually rubbish, but I vividly remember one Sunday afternoon there with glorious sunshine. I sat in front of the main stage and got to see Christy Moore, Van Morrisson, and Brian Wilson play one after the other, all knocking it out of the park. Christy Moore had some of the Planxty guys with him and Van Morrisson was in a good mood for once. I stayed in the one spot for hours and got burned to a crisp.

I was telling someone about this at the weekend and decided to look up what year it was. Turns out it didn't happen - it was actually multiple years I had merged together in my head. Ten years ago, while I was an adult.

There's lots to pick apart in this interview but recollections of Basso isn't one of them.

 

[vedrafjord]

How Froome manages to lead a team and inspire leadership is beyond me.

Why? In cycling, if you're fast enough to win you're a leader and if you're not then you're not. Cadel Evans successfully led a team for years and he's an awkward, angry nerd (I still have a soft spot for Cadel btw for his persistence and ability to take a lot of punishment).

 

[thrawn]

I went to Glastonbury a few times and the weather was usually rubbish, but I vividly remember one Sunday afternoon there with glorious sunshine. I sat in front of the main stage and got to see Christy Moore, Van Morrisson, and Brian Wilson play one after the other, all knocking it out of the park. Christy Moore had some of the Planxty guys with him and Van Morrisson was in a good mood for once. I stayed in the one spot for hours and got burned to a crisp.

I was telling someone about this at the weekend and decided to look up what year it was. Turns out it didn't happen - it was actually multiple years I had merged together in my head. Ten years ago, while I was an adult.

There's lots to pick apart in this interview but recollections of Basso isn't one of them.

And I'm sure you were completely sober at Glastonbury.

 

[MartinGT]

Just starting to read the second bit. He cannot remember the doctor from this seasons LBL race, yet he can remember the doctor from his Barloworld days.

 

[MartinGT]

This kid is a joker.

Says he doesnt know the history of the sport, then in part two reels off a load of stuff that says differently.

haha, joker.

 

[vedrafjord]

And I'm sure you were completely sober at Glastonbury.

I was, on the Sunday. If I'd donated blood on the Friday though, the recipient would have been able to see through time.

The point though is that memories get consolidated over time, often falsely. If you repeatedly retell a story, it gets streamlined and 'storified' and affects the original memory. The theory of Euhemerism says that actual historical events were turned into mythology in this manner (e.g. the Illiad etc).

 

[del1962]

This kid is a joker.

Says he doesnt know the history of the sport, then in part two reels off a load of stuff that says differently.

haha, joker.

What he mentions though is the 2008 tour, not really history as far as he is concerned.

 

[MartinGT]

This is comedy gold.

I bet t'old Brailsford is fuming.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

How Froome manages to lead a team and inspire leadership is beyond me.

To be a leader you need your first follower. Porte fits that bill pretty well, and is a very strong rider to boot.

Without Porte I feel perhaps Froome's tenor within the team would not be as welcome, despite his strength on the bike.

 

[MartinGT]

Seriously, was the Dawg ****ed when he did this?

He was apparently 1 or 2 years down the line with Badzilla, his body was riddled with it yet not in the advanced stages of it.

WTF!!!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Seriously, was the Dawg ****ed when he did this?

He was apparently 1 or 2 years down the line with Badzilla, his body was riddled with it yet not in the advanced stages of it.

WTF!!!

Yeah that's the biggest WTF for me regarding Bilharzia: I read an account recently and you have blood in your urine and stool when it gets bad.

Yet Froome's biggest complaint regarding his infection is lame stuff like
* coughing - with no mention of asthma as a potential cause
* colds, slow recovery - well duh if you're getting up at 2am to train and essentially have no fricken clue about how to train or recover properly.

 

[Nick777]

I bring your attention to the recent ASADA investigation into Cronulla Rugby League team and Essendon Australian Football team, and the current issuing "please explain" to 34 Essendon footy players for allowing themselves to be injected by a "sport scientist" (not th club doctor) with various unknown substances conjectured to be amongst other things PED Thymosin B. These young men signed a waiver allowing the club to inject them with whatever (waiver signed under duress with the manager present implying sign or else contract not renewed)

The euphamism for this team based systematic doping is "supplements program"

Discussion in the Australian Spoert Comission thread

1) No player was forced to sign anything under duress or threatened with not getting re contracted. See Zaharakis, Fletcher etc
2) There was no 'waiver' put to the players which allowed them to be injected with "whatever". The Essendon leadership group organized consent forms stating that any supplements they received had to be WADA compliant.

But I think you probably knew that.

 

[MartinGT]

I would be interested in hearing from this Dr Clunge on his opinion on the treatment of Badzilla and see if his European counterparts are that wrong. I.e multiple treatments are needed (for someone who isnt in advanced stages of course )

 

[MartinGT]

Richie (his team-mate Richie Porte) and I were looking at Hautacam (the Pyrenean climb). We were going to go recon it and wanted to see it online before going to ride it. We brought up a video of Armstrong and Pantani racing up Hautacam and it was comical watching it – it was as if they were sprinting all the way up. We looked at it and felt, ‘That just doesn’t happen anymore.’

have you not seen yourself on climbs Dawg?

 

[LaFlorecita]

have you not seen yourself on climbs Dawg?

Awesome

 

[keeponrollin]

PK: What about Leinders? I want to remind you (of your description) of ‘Omerta’ in the book: ’No matter what you have seen or what you have heard, you say nothing. If a doping story breaks, you are always surprised. You never heard anything, you never saw anything and nobody ever spoke about it.’ The one thing I find absolutely astonishing about Leinders and his association with the team is that nobody ever worked with him. He spent two ****ing years with the team and nobody had any dealings with him!

CF: (Laughs) I don’t know what you want to call dealings. Each rider is assigned a doctor on the team and you go to that doctor for your day-to-day problems. I wasn’t assigned Geert Leinders put it that way.

MC: You were with Usher then? Weren’t you?

CF: Ehhhh.

MC: Because when I was looking up the Bilharzia things, you emailed Usher and asked him about somewhere you could get your Bilharzia tested around this area, so . . .

CF: When I’d be on a race with Geert Leinders; I think I did Romandie with him.

MC: And you did the Vuelta with him, you went to see him with your skin condition.

CF: When he was on the races I would see him, definitely . . . Like the skin problem I had in the Vuelta; I woke him up at two in the morning and he gave me the hydrocortisone cream.

PK: Do you not need a TUE for that?

CF: No, not for creams. You just need to declare it on the forms.

Oh look, Dawg does know something about TUEs, & while he might not be clear on some of the Doctors he's seen, he's sure he never went to Leinders. With his shi77y memory, it's lucky he has Michelle around to fill in the gaps

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Wasn't he waking up at 2am to go training as well?

Is 2am his special wake up time?

 

[MartinGT]

CF: When I have these back issues, I don’t think its unreasonable to take a couple of paracetamol but it’s not something I’d use for a performance gain . . . I think people have a really warped perception of what happens in teams. The other day, when I crashed in the Dauphine, explains it pretty well. I crashed in the Dauphine and it hurt me quite a bit; I fell hard and took a big battering there. I was on the massage table and the doctor came into the room and said to me: ‘Okay Chris, you’ve obviously had a big fall, tonight you’re going to be uncomfortable. Here’s two paracetamol, take them before you go to bed tonight and two more tomorrow morning.’ He walked out of the room and the soigneur (masseur) packed up laughing. He said, ‘The general perception is probably that you’re on all kinds of IVs but you look like you’ve been through a lawn mower and the doctor is giving you headache medicine!’ I know people must think that cyclists must be up to everything but it’s not like that.

MC: Not in your case.

CF: (smiles) Yeah, I can only speak for myself.f

Wait on Dawg, you said everyone is cleans