Kimmage unleashes hell, counter-sues Verbruggen & McQuaid

Page 8 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
my username is flish said:
Can someone post the current fund amount? Can't see it on my machine... thanks.
$88,630.78
2987 contributors (would be nice to hit 3000 before Sunday stories)

for those on an Apple device, you can donate here.
above the widget that you can't see is this verbiage (click on the here on the website):

VeloNews, 10/24/12

The widget below is flash and won't show up on an Apple device. Click here for a direct link to contribute. Thanks to the commenter below for suggesting this.
 
Little man Kimmage fighting on his own.

While the big powerful teams sends out one press release after another claiming squeaking clean operation, Mr Kimmage continues to fight for a better sport pretty much on his own. Courageous, but perhaps foolish.

On his own you ask? Where is the $50K bump from any of the teams.
 
armchairclimber said:
It's not enough.

The law is free to all.

It's not a privilege or only for the wealthy.

Frivolous legal action is only for the wealthy and stupid.

PK is not defending himself. Mealy making a submission with his legal team of pro bono lawyers.

Money is not an issue. The law does not determine itself upon wealth.


Watch.
 
Le Baroudeur said:
I just hope Paul stays focused. He does seem to have a tendency to grab for the shotgun and take the whole leg rather than cutting out the gangrene with a scalpel leaving at least some flesh to heal.

I know some here like the napalm and uzi approach, but a surgical strike is more likely to benefit the patient here imho.

Time to make a stack of Marmalade sandwiches.

I'm afraid that the only option for cleaning up the UCI is:

"....take off & nuke it from orbit"
:(

I wonder if News International would like to take the opportunity to rehabilitate their reputation somewhat, by explaining why they let Paul go from the Sunday Times when they did, & whether they had any inputs from the UCI leadership before the decision ????

I don't think I'm alone in being baffled by the decision at the time, & to this date. PK has written some brilliant stuff, especially outside of cycling, & has won numerous awards for his work while he was on the payroll of the ST. When you look at some of the donkeys they still have on staff, you have to wonder if they were told to give PK the push ?

If this were the case, it would be a substantial step towards proving that PMcQ & HV were engaged in a campaign against PK.
 
Aug 27, 2012
1,436
0
0
DirtyWorks said:
As for "the number" dead from EPO, it's nearly impossible to get it right. I think 6-16 is a solid statistic.

I think you will be under by a factor or 5-10 at least, likely more. Your number - presumably - focuses on the relatively high profile cases ie the known cyclists, and those whose deaths are more or less directly attributable.

Since EPO came on in 1985, but particularly in the last decade, we can expect many many athletes in second tier cycling events and in other sports to have died. Many of these deaths would never be directly attributed to EPO, but be of "vague" cardiovascular origin, eg."heart attacks" or "cardiovascular event". I am not sure if any post-mortem blood analysis would look at external EPO supplementation, so you would never formally see this on a death certificate.

Then there is the longer term mortality, and morbidity that eventually leads to mortality. Increasing the Hct above certain threshold values is highly likely to cause long term damage that may only manifest itself after years/decades, eg via damage to the microcirculation in the brain, etc. There are many ex-riders with long term cardiovascular complications that are likely to have as a primary cause the use of PED's incl. EPO.

It's a bit like steroid and hgh abuse. The exact impact is likely to be grossly under-reported. The human body is a finely honed system with many homeostatically controlled subsystems. Mucking around with these systems via drugs, unless indicated via specific diseases, is always likely to lead to problems.

Writing this post has just triggered another thought. It would be interesting to see/review the animal toxicology on EPO. In animal tox studies they basically dose the drug at high levels to see what the side effects are, and this includes lethal doses. These studies preceed human safety studies, and are necessary to avoid problems in patients (remember thalidomide), and to set a safe dose level at which the therapeutic effect prevails the side effect (if any at that dose).

So back to the thread. UCI has a distinct responsibility to manage the safety of its athletes with regard to controlling PEDs. What is stopping EPO use if the testing frequency is such that most athletes have an almost zero chance of getting caught (particularly if it is known that no testing will take place at an upcoming event - remember a recent ToC), and if certain team managers are given a tour of testing facilities and explained the ins and outs of the testing process.

The "dark era" of the past 20 years is proof that testing has been a total failure. Widespread doping, relatively few positive tests. The USADA case is proof of the failure of testing implementation by UCI. Not because tests are not available (at least in the past decade or so). But because the implementation by the sports administrator has been woefully inadequate/incompetent, one could perhaps even argue criminally so.
 
Jul 8, 2010
136
0
0
Kimmage Evidence?

Sorry if already mentioned, will PK's 28 (29?) pages and 55 exhibits be made public at some stage?
 
Aug 27, 2012
1,436
0
0
Adamastor said:
Sorry if already mentioned, will PK's 28 (29?) pages and 55 exhibits be made public at some stage?

Apparently not. I asked same. Swiss closed court case.

Which is why the content here in the clinic is highly useful. And which is why we feel the loss of the deleted previous Kimmage thread, and would like to see this resurrected.

See discussion in the "about forum" section in the mods thread for further detail.
 
Jul 8, 2010
136
0
0
Tinman said:
Apparently not. I asked same. Swiss closed court case.

Which is why the content here in the clinic is highly useful. And which is why we feel the loss of the deleted previous Kimmage thread, and would like to see this resurrected.

See discussion in the "about forum" section in the mods thread for further detail.

What do you mean with "Swiss closed court case" ???
 
Aug 27, 2012
1,436
0
0
Adamastor said:
What do you mean with "Swiss closed court case" ???

case heard in a "closed court" ie judge assessing the information Kimmage has provided and deciding whether to order police investigation.

That's my understanding (from speed reading previous posts - check earlier in thread to find out more).
 
Jul 8, 2010
136
0
0
Tinman said:
case heard in a "closed court" ie judge assessing the information Kimmage has provided and deciding whether to order police investigation.

That's my understanding (from speed reading previous posts - check earlier in thread to find out more).

Sorry, I interpreted your statement as "the Swiss court has closed -as in refused- court case".

Understood now. It's difficult to keep up with all posts, as new threads are opened every day!
 
Adamastor said:
Sorry, I interpreted your statement as "the Swiss court has closed -as in refused- court case".

Understood now. It's difficult to keep up with all posts, as new threads are opened every day!
yes. there was order here, once upon a time, but now it's near impossible... did somebody fart? oh, let's start a thread!

on the plus side, at least if a thread gets deleted by mistake, you don't lose 70+ pages like what happened with the original Kimmage thread. everyone was very orderly and kept the discussion in its proper place, including an excellent discussion on Swiss law and courts (which would have answered your question).

unfortunately, CN does not feel it has the resources to resurrect that thread. it is more important that their IT guys find new ways to stick in ads that we can't ignore, etc... priorities :rolleyes:

still, i hope, this thread will bring back some of those excellent discussions. and, please god, that the f***ing trolls will stick with creating their own to try and obfuscate the truth rather than pi$$ing in this one (they pretty much stayed away when it was a case against Kimmage, but now they obviously feel threatened).

this case is just too important.

onward gladiators!
 
Kimmage makes position clear in relation to defence fund

for people who didn't get a chance to listen to the radio program and were still concerned donating...
Asked by Dublin radio station 98FM what would happen if those who donated had concerns about the shift from defence to attack, Kimmage made clear that they would be listened to.

“At the moment I haven’t touched a cent of it, although I have spent some money myself on this. Those who have donated will be given the choice whether they want to continue to donate to it to what is now an offence fund or whether they want to withdraw the money. It is totally up to them what they want to do with it,” he said.

“If they are not happy with the course of events, they will be more than entitled to receive their money back. There is no problem with that at all. Ultimately, I said from the get-go that when the fund was set up, that in a scenario that I would win the case or the case was dropped, all the money would be refunded to the donors. And that is very much the case as we sit here today.”

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...n-relation-to-defence-fund.aspx#ixzz2BAvOdNT6
 
i don't see any possibility to succeed with this.
the facts are:
1. liars - they've been for long time and got profit by lying. so TRUTH.
2. cowards - the same as 1.
3. scumbags - well, i dunno if this is sueable at all.
so with all the respect for Kimmage's work on the big case, this looks like a wrong step...
 
Aug 8, 2009
142
0
0
I wonder if it might be in the best interest of the Lance camp to help Kimmage out? Maybe not publicly, but a leaked document or two could go a long way.
 
Sep 29, 2012
12,197
0
0
sashimono said:
I wonder if it might be in the best interest of the Lance camp to help Kimmage out? Maybe not publicly, but a leaked document or two could go a long way.

Leaked emails!!

Given his paranoid nature, I wonder if he video'd or voice recorded any of the meetings in his home - like the one with Zomegnan.
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
2
0
Aug 18, 2012
1,171
0
0
sashimono said:
I wonder if it might be in the best interest of the Lance camp to help Kimmage out? Maybe not publicly, but a leaked document or two could go a long way.

How would it be in the best interest of the Lance camp? Not denying it would just interested in your line of thinking?

I guess he's certainly annoyed with Mcquaid for the way he described him at the press conference.
 
Aug 8, 2009
142
0
0
Briant_Gumble said:
How would it be in the best interest of the Lance camp? Not denying it would just interested in your line of thinking?

I guess he's certainly annoyed with Mcquaid for the way he described him at the press conference.

If Lance is concerned about his kids and family, I would guess that he cares about how he is ultimately percieved. He can spin "ringleader of giant doping operation" into "victim of corrupt system" simply by presenting evidence against the UCI.
 
sashimono said:
If Lance is concerned about his kids and family, I would guess that he cares about how he is ultimately percieved. He can spin "ringleader of giant doping operation" into "victim of corrupt system" simply by presenting evidence against the UCI.

Stranger in a strange land.

Armstrong, who has faced constant doping allegations despite never testing positive, is also keen to prove he is clean and hopes by racing the Tour again his four children will read about it.

"I'm doing this for my kids," he says in the book.

"With news so accessible these days on the web, they'll be able to read any story they want. And I don't want them growing up and reading all these things about me and doping."
 
Jun 11, 2011
473
0
0
Grandillusion said:
Zigmeister, did you ever read Kimmage's interview with Landis from a few years back? It's absolutely riveting. Very moving. If you can read that in full and still think "Landis is a piece of s**t", and not see the full horror of the situation pro riders are placed in, then I'm at a loss for words.
none of that has anything to do with the basic principle of when you get caught doing something, you keep your mouth shut and do your time. a real man deals with the consequences of his decisions.
and just because Landis is charming you want to forgive him for being a rat? no way, POS forever