Kimmage unleashes hell, counter-sues Verbruggen & McQuaid

[ElChingon]

El - as a poster, I say lighten up. I HAVE done stuff like this before, and the Boston Marathon bombing funds seem, at the moment, to be extremely exceptional. Dotting the i's and crossing the t's usually happens much later than it ever should, and this whole Paul Kimmage assistance effort was a very grassroots evolution - which would make it distinctly unlikely, in my experience, that the finer points were considered before the taxman got in touch and said wtf!

Now, that said, this whole bit seems extremely dodgy. Aaron Brown doesn't smell particularly rosy, and the role of all the other people is not clear. I don't see any heroes in this story, including Kimmage. In spite of the fact that he appears to me to be clearly wronged, he seems a bit whiny. Not to mention a bit dense - but it isn't his area of expertise, ok, I get that.

Waiting for another shoe to drop.

I never thought I was a overly heavy poster but I guess the word count was a bit high.

Since you have done some of this you also know all to well how easily someone can pinch the pot if others are not looking too keenly, as does happen (all the time). Grassroots? No, this was a bit more orchestrated, it was widely covered by the media outside of cycling. But just like in other cases no one asked about the details of the matter, not even me but I did think a PayPal donation was odd or out of what I would use to donate (too much traceability for me).

As for the blame, it is still way way up in the air (if at least for me), so far it seems some people are giving Aaron Brown some slack but the timelines are not in his favor at the moment.

Heroes? I think you've been watching too many super hero movies, there never are any heroes, just ask anyone who is appointed a hero by the masses.

In closing, watch your head.

 

[Benotti69]

El - as a poster, I say lighten up. I HAVE done stuff like this before, and the Boston Marathon bombing funds seem, at the moment, to be extremely exceptional. Dotting the i's and crossing the t's usually happens much later than it ever should, and this whole Paul Kimmage assistance effort was a very grassroots evolution - which would make it distinctly unlikely, in my experience, that the finer points were considered before the taxman got in touch and said wtf!

Now, that said, this whole bit seems extremely dodgy. Aaron Brown doesn't smell particularly rosy, and the role of all the other people is not clear. I don't see any heroes in this story, including Kimmage. In spite of the fact that he appears to me to be clearly wronged, he seems a bit whiny. Not to mention a bit dense - but it isn't his area of expertise, ok, I get that.

Waiting for another shoe to drop.

Including Kimmage as a protagonist in this sad and sorry saga is low.

Kimmage rejected the idea of a fund from the 1st time it was mentioned.

It is very clear that Kimmage has not touched a cent. The money's were sent to his Swiss lawyer not via Kimmage.

It appears that the Brown has been 'mismanaging' the account at best, stealing from it at worst.

 

[hiero2]

Including Kimmage as a protagonist in this sad and sorry saga is low.

Kimmage rejected the idea of a fund from the 1st time it was mentioned.

It is very clear that Kimmage has not touched a cent. The money's were sent to his Swiss lawyer not via Kimmage.

It appears that the Brown has been 'mismanaging' the account at best, stealing from it at worst.

I do seem to recall something about Kimmage initially rejecting the idea, but changing up later.

Your last sentence about Brown is spot on, and well said.

 

[Wallace]

Condemn everyone? Well I am assuming an audience of adults here with enriched lives and experiences and some memory of the past. That being said, who would put up money to some random person on the street stating they are against some cause you particularly believe in? I am just hoping people either know this person is legit or are throwing their money at them to feel like they are contributing without really doing anything that might cause some of their personal time. Has anyone sent Paul Kimmage any money directly? Is that way too hard to do? Why not give at the root of the issue? Guess PayPal is much easier for those who want the quick satisfaction or feel good mouse click.


I'm thinking there are many people which are looking less than stellar, several thousands. In this day and age, you better know who you are sending money too and know its legit, or the headlines might just include your name next time.

What on earth are you going on about? Send Kimmage money directly ("Hey, look Honey, a big pile of checks arrived in the mail today, could you deposit them on your way to pick up the kids?")? Don't you think his life is complicated enough, without having to manage his own defense fund? Also, do you know how many charities use PayPal--most. If you've never donated to a cause using PayPal, my guess is that you aren't the donating type--which is perfectly fine, but being snide to "those who want the quick satisfaction or feel good mouse click" is just ridiculous.

Besides: the Kimmage Fund did it's work, in a way. Paul K was alone, unemployed and under attack from the UCI. The fund demonstrated a wide amount of support for him, so much so that the UCI backed off. That's a legitimate accomplishment. Of course it would be much better if he had the funds, and I hope he gets them back, but to say that people were misguided in donating and that people look "less than stellar" for doing so is inane. I consider my $50 well spent.

 

[Benotti69]

I have noted that Benson has not contributed to this thread after stirring it up with his mate Brown.

Maybe Benson can clarify who contacted him in relation to this story as Brown is denying he contacted anyone.

 

[Granville57]

The one thing that disappoints me somewhat is this remark from NYVelocity's Andy Shen:

I didn’t want to have anything to do with the money,” he said, talking about when the fund was set up. “Lesli and Aaron stepped in and they set it up. From that point onwards, I really didn’t have any knowledge of what account they used or anything else.
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/14498/Feature-The-many-questions-about-the-Kimmage-defence-fund.aspx

At the time, it certainly appeared that NYVelocity was very much the face of this campaign, and their site had direct links to the ChipIn fund. I never imagined that they were so "hands off" about the actual details of it all, but I suppose many lessons have been learned by many people thus far in this fiasco.

What irks me the most about Aaron Brown's posturing since the sordid details were made public is that he has to be aware of the pain he is causing Lesli Cohen and Paul Kimmage, and yet he sidesteps the personal and emotional side of everything by citing that it's all in the hands of the lawyers. Way to man up, Aaron. Stay classy.

Even if he were to reveal that he had invested all the money in a Nigerian Prince, and that he ended up quadrupling the return on the funds, was going to pay back all donors twice what they had put up, was giving $200,000 to Paul and the rest to Lesli to compensate for all the grief he has caused, he still couldn't justify his current display of arrogance and insolence.

One good thing to possibly come out of this is that people will finally acknowledge that Brown was never half as amusing or entertaining as he seemed to fancy himself. His overall shtick, and overused *chuckle* tag line wore itself out long ago. Oh, and nice TourChats disguise, dude. As if anyone ever cared who you really were.

Who is he, again?

 

[Netserk]

Do not derail this thread again. Or else.

For those of you that missed it.

Next time I won't be in as good a mood as I am now.

 

[Granville57]

Not trying to be a smarta$$ (at this particular moment) but I missed what appears to have been a six-hour meltdown in this thread that led to edits and bans.

So what are we talking about here, Netserk?

What is allowed? What is "out of bounds"?

Serious question.

Thanks.

 

[Benotti69]

The one thing that disappoints me somewhat is this remark from NYVelocity's Andy Shen:

At the time, it certainly appeared that NYVelocity was very much the face of this campaign, and their site had direct links to the ChipIn fund. I never imagined that they were so "hands off" about the actual details of it all, but I suppose many lessons have been learned my many people thus far in this fiasco.

What irks me the most about Aaron Brown's posturing since the sordid details were made public is that he has to be aware of the pain he is causing Lesli Cohen and Paul Kimmage, and yet he sidesteps the personal and emotional side of everything by citing that it's all in the hands of the lawyers. Way to man up, Aaron. Stay classy.

Even if he were to reveal that he had invested all the money in a Nigerian Prince, and that he ended up quadrupling the return on the funds, was going to pay back all donors twice what they had put up, was giving $200,000 to Paul and the rest to Lesli to compensate for all the grief he has caused, he still couldn't justify his current display of arrogance and insolence.

One good thing to possibly come out of this is that people will finally acknowledge that Brown was never half as amusing or entertaining as he seemed to fancy himself. He's overall schtick, and overused *chuckle* tag line wore itself out long ago. Oh, and nice TourChats disguise, dude. As if anyone ever cared who you really were.

Who is he, again?

Dan benson's mate.

 

[Netserk]

Not trying to be a smarta$$ (at this particular moment) but I missed what appears to have been a six-hour meltdown in this thread that led to edits and bans.

So what are we talking about here, Netserk?

What is allowed? What is "out of bounds"?

Serious question.

Thanks.

Trolling, insults and off topic are not allowed.

It's allowed to stay on topic and not break any rules.

 

[MacRoadie]

Oh, and nice TourChats disguise, dude. As if anyone ever cared who you really were.

Who is he, again?

TourChats is Neil Browne with an "e", formerly of the SoCal and currently of Greeenville, SC. Completely different "dude", dude...

 

[Granville57]

TourChats is Neil Browne with an "e", formerly of the SoCal and currently of Greeenville, SC. Completely different "dude", dude...

C'mon, dude. I'm not that stupid!

I've been following TourChats since day-one, and proudly donated to their Kickstarter campaign.

I was referring to the ridiculous getup that "UCI-Overlord" donned during his appearances on there.

Dude!


Lower left:

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Not trying to be a smarta$$ (at this particular moment) but I missed what appears to have been a six-hour meltdown in this thread that led to edits and bans.

So what are we talking about here, Netserk?

What is allowed? What is "out of bounds"?

Serious question.

Thanks.

Same here. Be thankful they were in a good mood or else?

Thanks for the quote from NYvelocity, that seems a bit strange considering they were the front for it at the beginning? I remember tweets that was confirming the amounts and details coming from NYvelocity. Odd.

UciUnderlord is sitting in Girona having a blast. Everyone will remember mr..thimbleskins or whatever geek name he made up for his cyclimas report s****s. But I better be careful and not Jump to any conclusions about what he might or might not have been up to with the accounting.

 

[MacRoadie]

Neil has enlightened me to the fact that AB was a guest on TourChats so I may have been a bit too hasty in my interpretation of the OP.

Mea culpa if that is the case.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I have noted that Benson has not contributed to this thread after stirring it up with his mate Brown.

Maybe Benson can clarify who contacted him in relation to this story as Brown is denying he contacted anyone.

Dan benson's mate.

I smell BS. How do you think they are friends?
And Bensons piece was not very flattering of his "mate".

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I smell BS. How do you think they are friends?
And Bensons piece was not very flattering of his "mate".

Benson's piece was complete crap from every angle.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Benson's piece was complete crap from every angle.

I just reread it - I see nothing wrong with the piece.
He contacted all the relevant parties and tried to make sense of what has occurred. At the time I thought the headline was ott but it is nearly a week and no-one appears to know exactly what the situation is with the fund.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/has-the-paul-kimmage-defense-fund-disappeared

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I just reread it - I see nothing wrong with the piece.
He contacted all the relevant parties and tried to make sense of what has occurred. At the time I thought the headline was ott but it is nearly a week and no-one appears to know exactly what the situation is with the fund.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/has-the-paul-kimmage-defense-fund-disappeared

I thought the headline was completely misleading and called into question Kimmage himself. The content of the story was thin with details and was mostly crap sensationalism. If you want to read a real journalistic piece, read the one on Velonation. One of the principles in the story said that they didn't give DB any info, and that their impression was that he was trying to beat everyone else out with the story rather than try to get a more complete picture.

You and I obviously have different standards for journalists.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I thought the headline was completely misleading and called into question Kimmage himself. The content of the story was thin with details and was mostly crap sensationalism. If you want to read a real journalistic piece, read the one on Velonation. One of the principles in the story said that they didn't give DB any info, and that their impression was that he was trying to beat everyone else out with the story rather than try to get a more complete picture.

You and I obviously have different standards for journalists.

Certainly the Velonation article is excellent.

Which person said the highlighted? And (unfortunatley) the headline is still correct and certainly does not question Kimmage in any way.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Certainly the Velonation article is excellent.

Which person said the highlighted? And (unfortunatley) the headline is still correct and certainly does not question Kimmage in any way.

I didn't get permission to attribute the quote, but it is genuine.

As for the headline, and the rest of the story, no, there is no reason to question Kimmage in this, and I was not the only one who got the initial impression that he was somehow at fault. It was complete crap. Period. If you don't think so, the we disagree, but I assure you you will not alter my opinion.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I didn't get permission to attribute the quote, but it is genuine.

As for the headline, and the rest of the story, no, there is no reason to question Kimmage in this, and I was not the only one who got the initial impression that he was somehow at fault. It was complete crap. Period. If you don't think so, the we disagree, but I assure you you will not alter my opinion.

In the article it has quotes from Kimmage, Cohen and Brown - that's pretty much everyone, I don't see who claims they did not give him info.

We certainly can disagree but the headline did not question Kimmage in any way.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

In the article it has quotes from Kimmage, Cohen and Brown - that's pretty much everyone, I don't see who claims they did not give him info.

We certainly can disagree but the headline did not question Kimmage in any way.

Yea, one of those people got a line...it was complete **** journalism as it is nowhere near a complete assessment. Note that you consider quotes "information," I don't.

As for the headline and article implicating Kimmage, I was not the only person to suggest that, but if it didn't to you, it didn't to you. As I said, your opinion on this particular subject means nothing to me and I'm done discussing it with you.

 

[Granville57]

In the article it has quotes from Kimmage, Cohen and Brown - that's pretty much everyone, I don't see who claims they did not give him info.

Not sure if we're on the same wavelength here or not, but Digger made it quite clear that none of them went to the media first.

Also Aaron talks of paying this put in public. Well I know for a fact that Paul, Andy, Lesli or myself didn't tell any media.
https://twitter.com/Digger_forum/status/330019057346691075

And more here that won't pass the language filters:
https://twitter.com/Digger_forum/status/330329840165212162

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yea, one of those people got a line...it was complete **** journalism as it is nowhere near a complete assessment. Note that you consider quotes "information," I don't.

As for the headline and article implicating Kimmage, I was not the only person to suggest that, but if it didn't to you, it didn't to you. As I said, your opinion on this particular subject means nothing to me and I'm done discussing it with you.

Fine, no idea why you are getting bent out of shape about it.

The whole situation is difficult to report because there is contradictory information - all one can do is pose questions, let the people respond and let the reader try to work out which information is correct.

 

[Digger]

Again I will reiterate that Lesli, Paul or Andy did not tip off anyone in the media about the fund. Someone clearly did and then they started asking questions.