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Kohl retires

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BroDeal said:
That is hilarious. The hypocrisy is astounding. It is like Bernie Madoff complaining about shoplifters.

i'll bet you are just and endless source of amusement to your friends and family.
 
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jackhammer111 said:
i'll bet you are just and endless source of amusement to your friends and family.

I'll bet you are just and endless source of disappointment to yours.
 
Are you directing towards Thoughtforfood? Jack? All of us?

Back to Kohl. Is there anyone who really thinks Kohl isn't telling the truth? I mean anyone other than Pat "Chief Wiggum" McQuaid, Lance and the other cyclists who support the omerta. Scratch that, as they likely know he's telling the truth. Is anyone seriously disputing Kohl's claims?

So, is that tweet still up? I wonder why Lance thinks Kohl was a donkey? Wonder if he thinks the same about his old best friend, Hamilton?
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Are you directing towards Thoughtforfood? Jack? All of us?

Back to Kohl. Is there anyone who really thinks Kohl isn't telling the truth? I mean anyone other than Pat "Chief Wiggum" McQuaid, Lance and the other cyclists who support the omerta. Scratch that, as they likely know he's telling the truth. Is anyone seriously disputing Kohl's claims?

So, is that tweet still up? I wonder why Lance thinks Kohl was a donkey? Wonder if he thinks the same about his old best friend, Hamilton?

I think just me and jackhammer. It was pretty much just our ****ing contest.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Sticking with Kohl. As as I asked before, anyone think he's not telling the truth?

If by "not telling the truth" you mean "not naming nearly enough names and giving nearly enough details about organized doping" then no, I don't think he is telling the truth.

I am glad that he said what he has, but it is still too little.
 
Apr 1, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Sticking with Kohl. As as I asked before, anyone think he's not telling the truth?

He's got no reason to lie.
Some of the reactions to his assertions I find difficult to believe.
Namely those of McQuaid and LA.
Donkey to thoroughbred? Ha:rolleyes:!
 
Mar 19, 2009
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funny comment from Lance.... 'If you are born a donkey and become a thoroughbred then "We" all know'.... eh he he he. Common Lance.... If you'd been clean for your Tours you'd never ever have finished, if everybody was clean you might not have been top 50! Lance...

"I've got a V02 max test machine right here if Lance wants to do a test right now..."

-That nice guy from MN (the one that missed the epo boat 91-94).
 
Mar 18, 2009
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I thinking he is telling the truth. Nothing to lose, especially if he is truly retiring and not just looking to reduce the length of his suspension. The prospect of his confession has raised the ire of Lance (and no, I am not trying to turn this into another Lance thread), and we know Lance's strong support of the omerta. If Lance has commented, then Kohl may have a lot to say that will not reflect well on either the peloton or the UCI. If he does spill the beans, let's hope that it is not a half-a**ed effort like Sinkewitz. I hope he tells all: names, suppliers, doctors, etc.
 
Apr 11, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Back to Kohl. Is there anyone who really thinks Kohl isn't telling the truth? I mean anyone other than Pat "Chief Wiggum" McQuaid, Lance and the other cyclists who support the omerta. Scratch that, as they likely know he's telling the truth. Is anyone seriously disputing Kohl's claims?

Kohl must be telling the truth. He genuinely seems to feel shame; and you can count on one hand the number of riders who've felt that.

I find the symbiotic criticism of him by McQuaid and Armstrong questionable (a la Bro Deal's comment on it being like Bernie Madoff). It's why I posted the "donkey" comment. It's getting to a point where the honest guys in the peloton needs a witness protection program, or at least whistleblower protection, from the omerta enforcers.

Like Mexico: you show up at the police station to report something, and the police officer is in cahoots with what you're reporting (either passively or actively, passively meaning by indifference, or SELECTIVE omission/favouritism). Selective omission and unhealthy symbiotic relationships seem to be key here.

It's still there: http://twitter.com/lancearmstrong

I suspect that a lot of these products come through eastern Europe, and that Austria is the conduit (always used to be that way, for example, with dissidents from eastern Europe, always making their way to the West through Austria). It's the conduit/a gateway.

If supplier networks are rolled up there, it could threaten a lot of under the table dealing with various parties.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Sticking with Kohl. As as I asked before, anyone think he's not telling the truth?

I think he's now in the same bandwagon as Jesus Manzano, he's listing it all out but no one wants to hear it. He's hitting home or way too close to home for most and that is the problem for the sport or sport heads. The more he lists the more he hurts the sport and that is why they might be distancing or ignoring him at this point. Manzano listed all out in detail and still available PDF downloads, yet I think the UCI and WADA have ignored his listed methods of cheating. Will it be the same for Kohl?
 
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i get the idea there's an long version story from kohl that i'm not finding.
i'd like, at least, read all he has to say before i say much about it.... other than lance is right on with the donkey comment. :p
can someone show me where it is? pretty please? :D
 
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ElChingon said:
I think he's now in the same bandwagon as Jesus Manzano, he's listing it all out but no one wants to hear it. He's hitting home or way too close to home for most and that is the problem for the sport or sport heads. The more he lists the more he hurts the sport and that is why they might be distancing or ignoring him at this point. Manzano listed all out in detail and still available PDF downloads, yet I think the UCI and WADA have ignored his listed methods of cheating. Will it be the same for Kohl?

manzano? what are you referring to?
 
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rhubroma said:
Well there's a reason the various Dr. Conconi's, Ferrari's, Santuccioni's Fuente's have found such a well paying clientel within the sport world. Fuente's defense was brilliant. He said he was merely safegaurding a riders health! Given that pro cycling is so punishing on the human organism, Fuente's "therpies," in accelerating recovery and enhancing power output, protected the athlete form the adverse health effects events such as the Tour inflicted upon the rider. Rather than prosecuting the man, Fuentes argued the world of sport whould be greatful for protecting the athlete's health his work was accomplishing.

Conconi was paid by the Italian Olympic Fed. back in the 80's to test the effects of EPO in riders' performances. His ground breaking research went on to dramatically change bike racing. Conconi was the mentor of Ferrari, who went on to become the most sought after preparatory medic for pro riders in the 90's till he was stopped by CONI. For a legal technicality, the Italian court wasn't able to punish Ferrari for illegal medical practice by doping his clients (among whom agt the time was Lance Armstrong), but the evidence was stacked against him enough for it to prohibit Ferrari from dealing with athletes again.

These doctors exist because athletes know they are taking health risks by doping, but also know that they must dope to be competative at the Tour and the other major events. The doctors in addition to monitering the client's/riders' health, also try to ensure, as much as possible, that the client won't get busted at the anti-doping controls. Thus they provide an indespensible service and probably have taken doping to a scientific level such that the athlete truly does risk little health wise and that this has probably "standardized" doping practice to a fairly "fair" level within the peleton.

The catch is, as BigBoat has correctly stated, not every body reacts to in the same way to doping products. In this sense, then, there is an inherent advantage/disadvantage treatment outcome which means that there is never really a level playing field. But Nature works that way too in giving some bodies mor cilindars than others, so I suppose the concept of a "level playing" field doesn't really exist.

The other problem with how doping works given it's illegality, is that the higher paid athletes get to be on the latest, most expensive and most effective products before the lesser paid athletes do. Or can afford the services of the most expensive medics to ensure the highest possible chance for effective therapy. Kind of like insider trading. So I believe that until doping remains an underground and to a certain degree elitest practice, the benefits which some riders enjoy from it will be to the disadvantage of others performances. So either doping is defeated, which isn't very realistic, or else it becomes democratic, accessible to all and on a socialized basis.

By the way rumor has it that there is a new doping substance being used this year in the peleton, for which no test exists yet. Cera was evidently a real flop. Next!

an unsubstantiated rumor? that's it? no info? no idea what? what type? anything?
at the end of a really good post too.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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I was disappointed by Pat McQuaid's response. Speaking during a visit to the Giro d'Italia, he effectively rubbished everything the Austrian had to say.

Now Kohl has changed his story several times but if I was running the UCI, I'd say something like: "look, if he's willing, we'll send one of our officials out to interview Kohl and collect information. As you'd imagine we might treat his claims with caution but we're committed to investigating the scourge of doping and won't leave any stone unturned, no matter how slimy. There are lessons to learn here."
 
Stani Kléber said:
I was disappointed by Pat McQuaid's response. Speaking during a visit to the Giro d'Italia, he effectively rubbished everything the Austrian had to say.

Yes, as I posted a few pages ago, the fact that McQuaid has shown no interest in getting to the bottom of the issue shows just how much he refuses to take doping seriously. The man, like those surrounding him, are out for one thing only, self preservation. Guys like Kohl (Manzano, Jaksche, etc.) make him look incompetent and the UCI corrupt. Well, as the old saying goes, if it walks like a duck...
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Anyone mentioned Anaresp patented and produced by Amgen already?

http://www.aranesp.com/

CTs have showed some nasty side effects (like seizures/strokes), but I just read an article in a dutch newspaper about 'gen' doping, where, in a post script, the product was mentioned by the Medical Director of Amgen Netherlands. It is said that 'Anaresp stimulates the production of red blood cells better than EPO'
 

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