Kohl retires

[BroDeal]

At only twenty-seven years old, is he really retiring because he is tired of living a lie? Or is it a legal tactic to lessen criminal justice problems? Or does he not think he will be able to return to a top level team after his ban is completed?

 

[Cobblestones]

He's spilling the beans, breaking the omerta. He saw what happened with JJ.

 

[Escarabajo]

At only twenty-seven years old, is he really retiring because he is tired of living a lie? Or is it a legal tactic to lessen criminal justice problems? Or does he not think he will be able to return to a top level team after his ban is completed?

As far as I am concerned he said that performing well without doping in cycling was impossible. That was his version. That does not leave a lot of hope for me as a fan.

 

[jfarbs]

jfarbs

It's been a bad run for the Germans and Austrians. Good riddance to them.

 

[ingsve]

As far as I am concerned he said that performing well without doping in cycling was impossible. That was his version. That does not leave a lot of hope for me as a fan.

Of course that's what he thinks. His thinking was already flawed to begin with. Since he himself was cheating he was probably justifying that to himself with the belief that everyone is cheating. And if he thought that then he probably thinks that now...

 

[issoisso]

At only twenty-seven years old, is he really retiring because he is tired of living a lie? Or is it a legal tactic to lessen criminal justice problems? Or does he not think he will be able to return to a top level team after his ban is completed?

The two reasons he named in the press conference were:

1. If you break the omerta, you're not getting offers from any teams. Which says quite a lot about how the people in charge see doping;

2. As much as fans would love to think otherwise, It's currently impossible to win a major race without doping;

 

[issoisso]

Of course that's what he thinks. His thinking was already flawed to begin with. Since he himself was cheating he was probably justifying that to himself with the belief that everyone is cheating. And if he thought that then he probably thinks that now...

Martial Saugy from the Lausanne lab has said time and time again that every time they test riders' samples it's very clear that not many people are playing fair.
He also constantly laments that even though they can clearly prove that fact with their tests, they can't sanction the riders due to the criteria for a test to be declared positive being insanely high.

 

[franciep10]

Of course that's what he thinks. His thinking was already flawed to begin with. Since he himself was cheating he was probably justifying that to himself with the belief that everyone is cheating. And if he thought that then he probably thinks that now...

he is in the pro peloton I think he has more knowledge on the subject than you do.

 

[quadsRme]

His comments are interesting.
"I have voluntarily doped – in a system in which you can't win without doping. Talent, training and iron discipline just aren't enough at some point. Doping becomes the rule. A clean sport is unfortunately an exception."

Either his comments are just that or is he setting up all the other riders or even the Labs? He sounds very disgusted that he was the one that was caught. Well, you play with fire and you get burned.

I don't believe him, saying he retires. He is just disgusted with the penalty. He will be back.

 

[nobody]

He said too that he took EPO the first time when he was 19. He was tested around 200 times, 100 of them should have tested positive, he said too. Don't know if he is referring to positive tests cleaned by UCI or false negative tests.

Actually he is collaborating with Austrian police

 

[lookkg386]

At only twenty-seven years old, is he really retiring because he is tired of living a lie? Or is it a legal tactic to lessen criminal justice problems? Or does he not think he will be able to return to a top level team after his ban is completed?

I'd say it's all of the above. What a waste at 27!.

Some of his quotes seem to indicate he wants to spill the beans on everything he knows, there are clearly many others and he can't believe he was the one caught.

 

[Parrot23]

1. If you break the omerta, you're not getting offers from any teams. Which says quite a lot about how the people in charge see doping;

Yes, Jorg Jaschke's experience proves your point.

 

[issoisso]

Yes, Jorg Jaschke's experience proves your point.

Kohl's point. I'd like to make it very clear that I simply posted what Kohl and Saugy have said.
I'm not risking posting my opinion on these matters here. You never know what moron might try to sue

 

[Parrot23]

Yeah, I see the experience you've been having on some threads with a wheel-sucker throwing tin cans at you, LOL.

 

[ElChingon]

Retired? Is he retiring to prevent further investigation?

I want to know more about the Centrifuge! It was a group buy and at 60K Euro's (I think) who else was part of it? How this peice of the story is getting thrown under the carpet is beyond me! This goes to prove that the doping practices are reaching epic proportions and they're using top shelf devices which no mear weekend/domestique doper can afford. This vein of the story needs to be investigated much further and even if Kohl retires he needs to be doing a bit more explaining on the matter.

I think 2008/2009 will be known for the fall out of the German riders with the known doping practices.

 

[Cobblestones]

He's now facing criminal investigations. Retiring from cycling won't help him there. It has been reported many reputable places that Kohl bought the centrifuge with Rasmussen. You might want to check 'Der Spiegel' or some other German-language media outlets about it. It's not precisely swept under the rug.

ETA: http://www.kurier.at/sportundmotor/319590.php Link

 

[pmcg76]

Last year I went to see some of the Giro. One day I got talking to a rider before the stage, it was the mountain TT to Plan de Cornes. I had never met or spoken to him before or vice versa, we were strangers. At the time the race was in the Dolomites and the guy was really struggling. He couldnt believe the pace in the mountains and could not believe the performances of a certain rider, he was also skeptical of the top guys and suggested they were on something other than bread or water.

Maybe this attitude could be put down to sour grapes but when the first guy we talked about was Emanuele Sella, you start to get a clearer picture of things, the pros have a good idea of what is possible or not and who is taking what. I look forward to the results from the tested Giro samples of 08. I want to see how accurate this pro was.

I would imagine Kohls opinion is mostly true but a little exaggerated out of bitterness, unortunately sad for cycling again but doping is still common I feel.

 

[BroDeal]

Some of his quotes seem to indicate he wants to spill the beans on everything he knows, there are clearly many others and he can't believe he was the one caught.

I would like to some one of these guys really lose it and start talking about other riders. Instead they can barely bring themselves to talk about their doctors.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

I find it quite difficult to take Kohl serious. Maybe he was on EPO his whole career, but it certainly is hard to imagine it being a coincidence that he tests positive shortly after his fantastic (and very surprising) TdF performance. In 2007, he finished 31st in the tour 73 minutes behind Contador. Not to mention his excellent 111th place in the 2005 Vuelta 1,58 ahead of GC hope Magnus Bäckstedt If he was on EPO on those occasions, he should sue the person that sold it to him

 

[ElChingon]

He's now facing criminal investigations. Retiring from cycling won't help him there. It has been reported many reputable places that Kohl bought the centrifuge with Rasmussen. You might want to check 'Der Spiegel' or some other German-language media outlets about it. It's not precisely swept under the rug.

ETA: http://www.kurier.at/sportundmotor/319590.php Link

Nice link and unfortuneatly the Spiegel story is only in German , I need to work in my German

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Purchasing the centrifuge wasn't the problem. The question is whether Kohl and anyone else who helped pay for the centrifuge, accepted money from other athletes to use the equipment. If they accepted money (payments), then they could be found guilty of providing doping -- that is what the Austrian authorities are investigating.

Susan

 

[BigBoat]

Almost all the top U-23 riders in Europe are doped. They dont stop at the pros!

You cant finish a Grand Tour clean if the field is heavily doped (red cell jacking). I've been saying this all along.

 

[craig1985]

How's your tinfoil hat coming along?

 

[Stani Kléber]

Purchasing the centrifuge wasn't the problem.

I know what you mean but many riders were going to races during the 1990s with large cardboard boxes containing a centrifuge, the idea being they could measure their haematocrit from their hotel room. Now you can't ban riders because they buy these machines but something's very wrong with the sport when riders were openly carrying these machines into hotel lobbies.

One rider from a large Dutch team famously went into a rage when waiting for his baggage at an airport carousel because he discovered his centrifuge broken on the conveyor belt in front of him.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

As far as I am concerned he said that performing well without doping in cycling was impossible. That was his version. That does not leave a lot of hope for me as a fan.

It was his version, but he's pretty much correct.

The two reasons he named in the press conference were:

1. If you break the omerta, you're not getting offers from any teams. Which says quite a lot about how the people in charge see doping;

The biggest "names" to fully break the omerta and name names are Manzano, Jaschke and Simeoni. All have had a hard, if not impossible, time, getting signed.

But it depends on how much you break it. There are riders who confess and name some names and still end up racing (Sinkewitz). Riders who totally confess but don't name names that still race (Millar). Riders who don't really confess, but sort of do between the lines and still can't get signed (Heras). And then there's a rider like Gill, who offered his DNA to compare to Puerto blood bags to prove his innocence, but was rebuffed and still can't get signed.

But the negative tends to be the most true. Just shut up, take your suspension, and you'll be back (Basso, Di Luca, Scarponi, etc.). Is that what Hein said to Landis anyway?

2. As much as fans would love to think otherwise, It's currently impossible to win a major race without doping;

Well, BigBoat and others have been saying this. And by looking at the Giro and making a blank guess, I'd speculate the one team I'd feel confident enough to say is riding clean is Garmin, and their guys are all about an hour and a half back right now, and in last place in the team classification with only five guys left riding.

Martial Saugy from the Lausanne lab has said time and time again that every time they test riders' samples it's very clear that not many people are playing fair.
He also constantly laments that even though they can clearly prove that fact with their tests, they can't sanction the riders due to the criteria for a test to be declared positive being insanely high.

This is very true, and sadly rarely reported. Michael Ashenden pointed this out in his interview about how there are many tests where they see EPO, but because if the high level of certainty needed, they are often considered "negative". After being booted from last year's Tour, Ricco said that he should have tested postive for Cera in all of his tests. Well, they did find Cera in all samples, but the burden of proof is so insanely high as you note.

And Lance and Landis and others would have us believe the labs are tainting their samples and treating them unfairly.

I look forward to the results from the tested Giro samples of 08. I want to see how accurate this pro was.

Don't get your hopes up too high. As an example, see Ricco's statement from last year...

I would like to some one of these guys really lose it and start talking about other riders. Instead they can barely bring themselves to talk about their doctors.

I agree with you. Sadly, until there is a whistleblower program and the UCI is cleaned up and figures out it's more important to go after the structure (managers, doctors, trainers, soigners, etc.), and find a way to implement some sort of amnesty to those who name names, it's not going to happen.

And as I have said many times, until they can determine ways to profile power outputs, and most importantly hematology testing for total blood volume, we're going to see blood doping (or microdosing of very difficult to detect human identical EPO like Dynepo or Hemopure) as a major, major problem in the sport.