Landis letter re drug use in cycling

[Boeing]

@blackcat

where exactly is floyds credibility. seriously I'd like to know

BTW I have been meaning to ask. with a handle like that does that make you a sunderland fan?

 

[Anonymous]

I will say it again...landis should have admitted his own guilt first...sat on it for six months or so, then gone after them...would hold alot more water in the dim public's opinions...my guess is this story will have no effect on strongarm besides paying a few folks off, doing a few mag covers ect...the train will keep a'rollin...and the new story will be what a disgusting guy Floyd is and Lance is a victim...

c'mon Tyler, man up here and back Floyd up...quit your moaning and do something real bud....just might help with that depression...

 

[Epicycle]

Toto's cracked a special one off:

http://nyvelocity.com/content/toto/2010/toto-turns-184

That is pure brilliance.

 

[slcbiker]

To quote Lance...SSDD.

Unless Floyd has better evidence, or others come forward, this isn't likely to change much. He doesn't have the credibility to overcome the Lance PR machine. Especially with this business about not actually being doped for the one thing he tested positive for. If he had come clean about all this when he first got busted, it would be a completely different story. But this just looks like sour grapes, especially pulling riders like Zabriskie into it. Not exactly sure what Floyd has against him.

 

[mikkemus23]

LOL at the toto - JB: "...I have ten cell phones strapped to my balls. If I can catch cancer by the end of the day this`ll all blow over"

 

[Oldman]

Pat McQuaid's comments really bother me.

UCI President Pat McQuaid told the Associated Press that Landis' allegations were "scandalous and mischievous."

"These guys coming out now with things like this from the past is only damaging the sport. If they've any love for the sport they wouldn't do it," he said.

Also, I just heard on NPR that LA stated something along the lines of "it's his word against ours" in regards to Landis' allegations.

I've been interested in professional cycling for over 20 years and know that doping is rampant in the sport, and has been since the beginning of the sport. Why couldn't McQuaid say something like "these are serious allegations and I/we are taking them seriously and will comment when we have had time to look into these allegations." Of course it is damaging to the sport. The topic is doping. What does McQuaid mean by "If they've any love for the sport they wouldn't do it" ???? Wouldn't do what? Speak up against doping or not dope in the first place. Funny comment on his part IMO.

A real investigation by other than USACycling and UCI might reveal some truths. Steve Johnson and Pat run organizations that have known the truth for along time.

 

[Anonymous]

At some point, we gotta admit it isn't gonna take a PR genius to work magic against what Landis has created. I hope this has some legs, but I am not optimistic.

I agree...I hope it comes down and HARD...this is american PR slime 101...you're right, Lance probably didnt even need his PR guys here...

 

[Roland Rat]

A real investigation by other than USACycling and UCI might reveal some truths. Steve Johnson and Pat run organizations that have known the truth for along time.

WADA and USADA are on the case - see a few posts before yours.

 

[BroDeal]

Sally Jenkins excusing doping.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/19/AR2010051904705.html

 

[Kennf1]

To quote Lance...SSDD.

Unless Floyd has better evidence, or others come forward, this isn't likely to change much. He doesn't have the credibility to overcome the Lance PR machine. Especially with this business about not actually being doped for the one thing he tested positive for. If he had come clean about all this when he first got busted, it would be a completely different story. But this just looks like sour grapes, especially pulling riders like Zabriskie into it. Not exactly sure what Floyd has against him.

Far from SSDD. He's the first rider, much less teammate, to ever accuse Lance of doping. Andreu and Swart admitted to epo while on Postal, but would not implicate Lance.

Can't understand why someone would say this is sour grapes when he's throwing himself under the bus too.

 

[wattage]

I'm really sad about Vaughters comments, if he was serious about cleaner cycling he would have backed Floyd up.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Forget doping suspensions from impotent sanctioning bodies. These are criminal allegations...Landis alleges systemic illegal distribution of controlled substances. These are felonies in the US. Not only is it a crime to distribute and posses controlled substances, it is also a crime to knowingly enable or support such activities.

That’s a very good point. A lot of people don’t realize that it’s a federal crime to even possess products like CERA outside of a lab environment.

What a mess.

 

[goldcycle26]

Sally Jenkins excusing doping.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/19/AR2010051904705.html

Of course shes going to excuse doping as of course she was the one that helped to write some of Lance's autobiographies. Not at all a unbiased source of information (SARCASM)

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I will say it again...landis should have admitted his own guilt first...sat on it for six months or so, then gone after them...would hold alot more water in the dim public's opinions...my guess is this story will have no effect on strongarm besides paying a few folks off, doing a few mag covers ect...the train will keep a'rollin...and the new story will be what a disgusting guy Floyd is and Lance is a victim...

c'mon Tyler, man up here and back Floyd up...quit your moaning and do something real bud....just might help with that depression...

Remember - all Tiger did was hit a tree and suddenly it was raining bimbo's..

Tiger got creamed because his image was false - Lance will suffer the same, and on top of that the public will find out that his athletic achievements were also false.

 

[Kennf1]

I'm really sad about Vaughters comments, if he was serious about cleaner cycling he would have backed Floyd up.

Vaughters is being careful, as he always is. He's focusing his comments on the present and the future, at least, from the statements I've seen. He is saying that Slipstream/Garmin is clean, and all of my riders are clean while on Garmin. He is not going to say that Landis's comments about the past are false.

 

[Publicus]

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...andis-admits-doping-accuses-lance-armstrong/1

The last line said:

"Landis told ESPN.com that he has no documentation to prove most of his claims."


Now looking deeper, I can't find anything on ESPN stating that directly... so who knows?

**edit** here's the line from the ESPN article:

"Landis confirmed to ESPN in a telephone interview that he had doped for most of his career and had sent the emails. Landis said he implicated dozens of other cyclists in addition to Armstrong, although he said he has no documentation of their use."

http://www.sportingnews.com/general...ts-doping-says-lance-armstrong-also-used-peds

Here's what the original ESPN article said:

Landis, who began his career as a top mountain biker, had kept detailed training journals since he was a teenager. He said he continued the same methodical record-keeping once he started using banned drugs and techniques. Landis said he spent as much as $90,000 a year on performance-enhancing drugs and on consultants to help him build a training regime. Landis said he has kept all of his journals and diaries and has offered to share them with U.S. anti-doping authorities in recent meetings. He added that he has given officials detailed information on how athletes are beating drug testing.

The key parts are bolded and underlined. If he's been doing this since before he became a professional, it's real hard to impugn that contemporaneous record. You'd have to prove that the records were modified at some point after 2006 (or fabricated), which isn't impossible but is difficult.

 

[Roland Rat]

That’s a very good point. A lot of people don’t realize that it’s a federal crime to even possess products like CERA outside of a lab environment.

What a mess.

But would the US have jurisdiction over things that happen abroad?

 

[ExRower]

Liggett has spoken.

PhilLiggett

Well. It's easy to name names, now let's see the proof and then I'll have a comment.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

I think the Hog is right. The correct strategy for Floyd is to wait until all these people deny involvement, then hit them with the proof.

Bingo.

How these folks respond will be a key point when the Feds question them, ie, were you lying then or are you lying now?

You know what happens when you lie to the Feds and they can tag you up?

@ the comment about ex-Mrs. Armstrong... Does a civil-divorce court NDA/Confidentaility agreement end up in the gutter once the Feds take the floor? Does anyone really think she will contempt herself or perjure herself for her ex-husband?

Not this lad.

 

[slcbiker]

SS in that most of these accusations are coming from riders already busted, and with essentially no physical evidence. Lance has such a good PR machine, it's going to be difficult to overcome without one or both of those things. Frankie A. was a bit of an exception to this.

Floyd was pretty much already under the bus. His career wasn't going much of anywhere and he'd already lost his court case.

 

[Anonymous]

Forget doping suspensions from impotent sanctioning bodies.

These are criminal allegations. Following the Marion Jones angle is exactly right.

Landis alleges systemic illegal distribution of controlled substances. These are felonies in the US. Not only is it a crime to distribute and posses controlled substances, it is also a crime to knowingly enable or support such activities. It's called conspiracy. Also, it's a felony to lie to a federal investigator, or to lie under oath. If Lance Armstrong is implicated, who might the co-conspirators be?

Which members of the LAF board knew about these activities and when did they know it?

What heads of corporations knew about these activities and when did they know it?

What legislators knew about these activities and when did they know it?

What did the President know about these activities and when did he know it?

They are all known to consort with Armstrong, and so they are all possibly implicated by Landis' revelations. They could all be deposed under oath and threat of perjury. This is a career-making opportunity for ambitious investigators, prosecutors, and journalists.

Further, I think this investigation needs to happen in the US, where puritanical laws still allow lives to be thrown away for minor moral indiscretions. The threat of severe punishment is needed to get the conspirators to confess. Convictions and punishment will follow.

keep dreaming man!...perhaps if strongarm happened to be a left handed reliever who had won the tumms fireman of the year award for 7 times...he might get a 30 game suspension...

I love the "what did the President know" stuff tho...what indeed...

 

[Juan Pelota]

Interesting discrepency....

JV said Floyd rode the 2005 tour without any extra blood during his talk with frankie, but in the letter Landis admits to riding the tour while getting two transfusion.

 

[eleven]

Would you not think he would remember flying to Switzerland with Bruyneel to pay off the UCI to make an EPO positive go away?

It doesn't matter if he remembers it or not - in the case of the SCA investigation it's not material to Landis' accusations. If they are not material, they are not perjury.

I also find it incredulous that he and Bruyneel would FLY to Switzerland to deliver an alleged payment.

 

[scribe]

Pat McQuaid's comments really bother me.

UCI President Pat McQuaid told the Associated Press that Landis' allegations were "scandalous and mischievous."

"These guys coming out now with things like this from the past is only damaging the sport. If they've any love for the sport they wouldn't do it," he said.

Also, I just heard on NPR that LA stated something along the lines of "it's his word against ours" in regards to Landis' allegations.

I've been interested in professional cycling for over 20 years and know that doping is rampant in the sport, and has been since the beginning of the sport. Why couldn't McQuaid say something like "these are serious allegations and I/we are taking them seriously and will comment when we have had time to look into these allegations." Of course it is damaging to the sport. The topic is doping. What does McQuaid mean by "If they've any love for the sport they wouldn't do it" ???? Wouldn't do what? Speak up against doping or not dope in the first place. Funny comment on his part IMO.

I agree on thoughts regarding McQuaid's misplaced comments. All he had to do was make a more neutral and concerned statement, even if he never had any intention of doing anything about it. Frankly, of course the guys at the top know doping is an epidemic. I've maintained all along that the bio passport was created to keep the obvious guys from actually killing themselves with a ridiculous crit. Otherwise, it's just the cyclist's blood in there and physiological differences between riders makes it impossible to determine who is doing what.

 

[Wallace]

Vaughters is being careful, as he always is. He's focusing his comments on the present and the future, at least, from the statements I've seen. He is saying that Slipstream/Garmin is clean, and all of my riders are clean while on Garmin. He is not going to say that Landis's comments about the past are false.

Absolutely. In none of his comments did he mention anything about the past.
You have to love these quotes:

“What were going to do is simply move forward in making sure that sport in general and this team is clean and real. We’re simply absolutely committed to the future of cycling and what we’re doing right here and right now. That’s been our line since the beginning.”

Vaughters was also quick to add that the team would not pull Zabriskie from the race and that he himself had expressed no desire to leave. “No, absolutely not. He can win this race and do it clean. He can win this race with clear conscience and an open heart and I think he will."

Now that's called tactical talking. He said nothing about Landis' claims, Armstrong, the past, etc. That's a pretty loud silence to me.

I wonder what he'll say when he's on the stand.