Landis letter re drug use in cycling

[Roland Rat]

Armstrong puts extra money into anti-doping

One of the last things he did was to pay for the UCI’s new Sysmex blood testing machine, which measures the proportion of haemoglobin and reticulocytes in a rider’s blood to determine whether they have been artificially manipulating their red cells.

“I know Lance didn’t want me to talk about this, but now he his career is coming to an end I said to him that I should make it public,” said Verbruggen. “He didn’t like that, but I think everybody has to know it.”

To stop people playing by his rules after he retired thus protecting his legacy.

Edit: Of course, if it's true.

 

[kurtinsc]

Didnt Marion Jones spend some time in the clink?

Good point.

But she spent time in jail for lying to the feds, not for use of drugs.

Same goes for Tammy Thomas (a cyclist... found guilty of lying and false statements). Bonds potentially could still go on trial... for perjury, not for illegal drug use.

I'm still fairly sure nobody has gotten jail time for using PED's... but you are correct that some have for lying to authorities about it.

 

[Cerberus]

Probably worth noting/adding that testimony is in fact, evidence.

Yes, but the worth of the evidence is dependent on the credibility of the witness and I wouldn't give a bucket of warm **** for Landis' credibility. Any competent lawyer would have a field day if anyone tried to build a case on Landis' word alone. For any legal consequences to occur there need to be credible evidence, as a minimum the aforementioned journals.

 

[Ferminal]

I'll take this one.

The inability of doping authorities to control the athletes is the major problem. Of course doping blows as it seems clear those with the best programmes are the ones who are winning events.

Fix the testing and controls, and the problem will die a horrible death. It has been stated here ad nauseum that the cyclists always seem to be 4 steps ahead of the authorities, so what are you gonna do?

Landis said that Armstrong and Brunyeel bribed the UCI, what good is a test if $$$$ is the only currency in the world?

It's a technical battle - there will never be a medical breakthrough which detects doping. The only way to stop doping with tests would be mechanical/physical test.

If there is a window of opportunity where we can move towards preventing doping in the first place, why shouldn't we take it?

 

[MrContador]

Kjærgaard claims he had no relations with what Landis wrote.

Here's a quote:
- First of all, it's a description I can't relate to. When that's said, there has been a lot of such descriptions of the team, so I have to ask myself whether I've been extremely naive during this period.

 

[hfer07]

I just read the fragments of the FLandis letters posted by BroDeal in another threat... WOW-- he is a mad man with a cause non of his, but to burn the US cycling house down to the ashes

 

[Hekla.]

So - ignore the problem, you believe that works??

The problem is being addressed with the biopassport. I'm saying we should have a more mature response to doping in previous eras. Do you think the cops should arrest Eddie Mercx?

 

[alvynmcq]

Landis is accusing Lance Armstrong of supplying him with EPO. Does that count as drug dealing?

 

[euanli]

I just read the fragments of the FLandis letters posted by BroDeal in another threat... WOW-- he is a mad man with a cause non of his, but to burn the US cycling house down to the ashes

Some would say it would set US cycling free

 

[Anonymous]

based on the new revelations it has been decided by the aso that the winners of the tour de france are as follows:

1999 Jacky Durand (FRA)
2000 Olivier Perraudeau (FRA)
2001 Jimmy Casper (FRA)
2002 Igor Flores (ESP)
2003 Hans De Clerq (BEL)
2004 Jimmy Casper (FRA)
2005 Iker Flores (ESP)
2006 Wim Vansevenant (BEL)

 

[Race Radio]

I don't think the Balco case will lend you much support while Barry Bonds is still on the outside of the irons.

Jones went to the clink for perjuring herself (which might explain why Landis is continuing to claim his 2006 test was false)

What?

Convictions from the BALCO case? Have you heard the names Tammy Thomas, Trevor Graham, Marion Jones, Victor Conti and Greg Anderson both cut plea deals.

really?

 

[Race Radio]

Good point.

But she spent time in jail for lying to the feds, not for use of drugs.

Same goes for Tammy Thomas (a cyclist... found guilty of lying and false statements). Bonds potentially could still go on trial... for perjury, not for illegal drug use.

I'm still fairly sure nobody has gotten jail time for using PED's... but you are correct that some have for lying to authorities about it.

So you don't think Lance lied under oath in the SCA case?

 

[kurtinsc]

When T-Mobile imploded in 2007 after Jef d'Honts book came out, what physical evidence did he have?

The team was the one doing all the suspending in that case... trying to change their image to keep their sponsor.

I don't think the Radioshack team will do that... Lance is too central to the team.


Were their any legal cases resulting from that... or suspensions from doping agencies or the UCI? The only one I remember was Sinkewitz... but he had a failed test.

 

[scribe]

Landis said that Armstrong and Brunyeel bribed the UCI, what good is a test if $$$$ is the only currency in the world?

It's a technical battle - there will never be a medical breakthrough which detects doping. The only way to stop doping with tests would be mechanical/physical test.

If there is a window of opportunity where we can move towards preventing doping in the first place, why shouldn't we take it?

It's gotta be a blanket approach. I am with you, but the idea that American cyclists are about to get axed from a stinking peleton doesn't sit well with me. I suppose outspoken athletes are a step in the right direction as it puts additional pressure on the system. We certainly haven't had enough FL and GLs in the sport.

 

[Cobblestones]

based on the new revelations it has been decided by the aso that the winners of the tour de france are as follows:

1999 Jacky Durand (FRA)
2000 Olivier Perraudeau (FRA)
2001 Jimmy Casper (FRA)
2002 Igor Flores (ESP)
2003 Hans De Clerq (BEL)
2004 Jimmy Casper (FRA)
2005 Iker Flores (ESP)
2006 Wim Vansevenant (BEL)

That would be sweet.

 

[kurtinsc]

So you don't think Lance lied under oath in the SCA case?

Help me out... what's SCA stand for?

 

[eleven]

based on the new revelations it has been decided by the aso that the winners of the tour de france are as follows:

1999 Jacky Durand (FRA)
2000 Olivier Perraudeau (FRA)
2001 Jimmy Casper (FRA)
2002 Igor Flores (ESP)
2003 Hans De Clerq (BEL)
2004 Jimmy Casper (FRA)
2005 Iker Flores (ESP)
2006 Wim Vansevenant (BEL)

Ok, that right there is funny ****!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I'll take this one.

The inability of doping authorities to control the athletes is the major problem. Of course doping blows as it seems clear those with the best programmes are the ones who are winning events.

Fix the testing and controls, and the problem will die a horrible death. It has been stated here ad nauseum that the cyclists always seem to be 4 steps ahead of the authorities, so what are you gonna do?

The testing is only part of the problem/solution.

If you can pay off a positive test - which Landis claims, or you get early notice of a test, allowed to take long showers or send the testers for coffee - then what chance is there of catching someone?

 

[eleven]

What?

Convictions from the BALCO case? Have you heard the names Tammy Thomas, Trevor Graham, Marion Jones, Victor Conti and Greg Anderson both cut plea deals.

really?

Yes, I know those names. Now remind me which athletes went to the clink for using PED's.

Which side of the prison fence is Barry living on?

 

[scribe]

So you don't think Lance lied under oath in the SCA case?

Not sure it matters as much in a civil case, iirc from previous discussions.

 

[Race Radio]

The team was the one doing all the suspending in that case... trying to change their image to keep their sponsor.

I don't think the Radioshack team will do that... Lance is too central to the team.


Were their any legal cases resulting from that... or suspensions from doping agencies or the UCI? The only one I remember was Sinkewitz... but he had a failed test.

And Zabel and Ulrich were not central to T-Mobile?

 

[kurtinsc]

What?

Convictions from the BALCO case? Have you heard the names Tammy Thomas, Trevor Graham, Marion Jones, Victor Conti and Greg Anderson both cut plea deals.

really?

All for lying/perjury/false statements (for the atheletes at least).

I'm actually struggling looking for an athelete in the US who has served time for using a PED. I'm sure it must have happened, but the guys who have gotten the most press as "dopers" in various sports here don't seem to have faced any criminal charges for it that I can find.

 

[2beacoup]

The team was the one doing all the suspending in that case... trying to change their image to keep their sponsor.

What about Riis, Zabel, Bölts, Henn, Aldag, Dietz,...? They already retired or left the team.

 

[Ferminal]

It's gotta be a blanket approach. I am with you, but the idea that American cyclists are about to get axed from a stinking peleton doesn't sit well with me. I suppose outspoken athletes are a step in the right direction as it puts additional pressure on the system. We certainly haven't had enough FL and GLs in the sport.

No you're right - it can't just be American cyclists, LA and JB just isn't enough to bring about new change. It needs to be top down, cut off the head (Pat) and take all the old men of the sport with him.

 

[buckwheat]

Will someone translate that please?

Pro cycling has as much credibility as Pro rassling or body building.

You see the screwballs at a WWE event or in the audience at a bodybuilding competition? They are the equivalent of the pharmstrong fanboys and the believers of the authenticity of cycling as a sport.

Pro cycling is 100% bs obviously. It was cleaning up and then the cancer returned with a vengeance.

I go to the dog track or watch the ponies if I want to see comparatively clean sport.

Hell, pro rassling is probably cleaner than cycling. At least it's more honest.