Landis letter re drug use in cycling

[offbyone]

so you would not like proof beyond doubt that Armstrong was clean/doped? would that not settle the legacy issue?

Lance is just one man. If you take these steps with lance I expect you have to take them with every rider in the pro peloton of that time. I don't like what I am guessing that result would show. Lance's legacy would just be one of many.

As I have said before, the probability is very high that a majority of the pro peloton doped during some point of their respective careers. I am not excluding lance from that, but I am not excluding any of his rivals either or even the domestiques. It was part of the cycling culture. We are undergoing a culture change, but it takes time.

 

[Anonymous]

I would like to nominate a lance armstrong fan who posted the below on livestrong for post of the year.

by IronGuy on May 21, 2010 at 1:39 PM

Simple way to make Landis stop bugging Lance. Lance should allow any and all of his blood samples to be re-tested. He's got nothing to hide and afterwards, even LeMond would stop talking smack.

DO IT LANCE! Shut these people up and ALLOW YOUR SAMPLES TO BE RE-TESTED!!

--------------------------

Amazing idea, i agree

 

[D Avoid]

Except I don't post self-portraits. Nice try though.

I wouldn't want to have to finger any of these guys.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Luckily I had you to lick my wounds that day, gree.

The problem with your quote is that the man in the arena is a cheater and now is being exposed for the fraud he is.

 

[workingclasshero]

I would like to nominate a lance armstrong fan who posted the below on livestrong for post of the year.

by IronGuy on May 21, 2010 at 1:39 PM

Simple way to make Landis stop bugging Lance. Lance should allow any and all of his blood samples to be re-tested. He's got nothing to hide and afterwards, even LeMond would stop talking smack.

DO IT LANCE! Shut these people up and ALLOW YOUR SAMPLES TO BE RE-TESTED!!

--------------------------

Amazing idea, i agree

i actually laughed out loud

 

[HL2037]

This has nothing to do with Lance. You would be naive if you didn't realize how rampant doping was in cycling community a decade ago. If we set the precedent that the doping agencies can dig up anyone's old samples and apply new tests to them just because of an accusation or suspicion then we have to apply this standard to all cyclists.

If we did so it would wipe out a generation of palmares. I don't think that is going to do anything positive for cycling.

Of course old samples should be retested. All the time. Every time there is a new test. What good would it do for cycling, you ask. Well, maybe it would make riders think twice before risking their health experimenting with dangerous drugs meant for veterinarian use. More important things are at stake here than "a generation of palmares". Livers, kidneys, lives. No young riders should have to risk that to be a part of the sport they loved since they were kids.

The way it is now, they have to use doping to be part of pro cycling. It simply can't be done without. As long as just one single rider does it, all others have to also, or else they don't have a chance. They are under great pressure to do what's necessary and everybody knows this, DS, team owner etc. When a rider is winning, everybody are making money. But when the rider is caught he is suddenly alone. Morally and financially. The risk is his alone. The riders are being used. Big money are being made by race organizers etc. pretending not to know what is happening. It is sickening.

When Floyd Landis describes riders injecting blood they drew themselves under primitive conditions and stored in somebodys closet for weeks! Have you any idea how dangerous?

It all has to come down. UCI has to go.

 

[trompe le monde]

I would like to nominate a lance armstrong fan who posted the below on livestrong for post of the year.

by IronGuy on May 21, 2010 at 1:39 PM

Simple way to make Landis stop bugging Lance. Lance should allow any and all of his blood samples to be re-tested. He's got nothing to hide and afterwards, even LeMond would stop talking smack.

DO IT LANCE! Shut these people up and ALLOW YOUR SAMPLES TO BE RE-TESTED!!

--------------------------

Amazing idea, i agree

Was that intentional? I mean IronGuy is one 'y' away from being IronyGuy.

 

[Anonymous]

I would like to nominate a lance armstrong fan who posted the below on livestrong for post of the year.

by IronGuy on May 21, 2010 at 1:39 PM

Simple way to make Landis stop bugging Lance. Lance should allow any and all of his blood samples to be re-tested. He's got nothing to hide and afterwards, even LeMond would stop talking smack.

DO IT LANCE! Shut these people up and ALLOW YOUR SAMPLES TO BE RE-TESTED!!

--------------------------

Amazing idea, i agree

Hear Hear!!!!! Let's go Lance....prove these mofos wrong!


Lance? Lance? Come on Lance...are you there? Can you hear me?

 

[asnicol]

Lance is just one man. If you take these steps with lance I expect you have to take them with every rider in the pro peloton of that time. I don't like what I am guessing that result would show. Lance's legacy would just be one of many.

As I have said before, the probability is very high that a majority of the pro peloton doped during some point of their respective careers. I am not excluding lance from that, but I am not excluding any of his rivals either or even the domestiques. It was part of the cycling culture. We are undergoing a culture change, but it takes time.

i accept the point you are making and yes testing everyone could get messy, but maybe that is necessary to promote cycling as a clean sport, the culture will not change if people are still getting away with doping.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Put Lance and Landis in the same room and make them take a polygraph test side by side.

 

[VeloCity]

I'm all for retroactive testing when there is reasonable suspicion, but - and someone correct me if I'm wrong - wouldn't retesting samples after 2001 be essentially pointless, as testing won't detect autologous blood doping, which seems to be the primary form of doping following the introduction of the EPO test, or EPO microtransfusing?

 

[US Patent Exploding Cyclist]

I would like to nominate a lance armstrong fan who posted the below on livestrong for post of the year.

by IronGuy on May 21, 2010 at 1:39 PM

Simple way to make Landis stop bugging Lance. Lance should allow any and all of his blood samples to be re-tested. He's got nothing to hide and afterwards, even LeMond would stop talking smack.

DO IT LANCE! Shut these people up and ALLOW YOUR SAMPLES TO BE RE-TESTED!!

--------------------------

Amazing idea, i agree

Harrison Ford, from Fugitive - "You swiched the Samples!"

 

[burn it down]

This thread is about to pass the 200,000 view mark. how many of those views do you think are from confused journalists from the ranks of ESPN and the like scratching their heads trying to figure out what steroid was being used?

 

[L29205]

Interesting, a dangerous development. As I have stated, I personally, don't see the value in retroactive testing from years ago. I would be ok with a 12 month period, but 8 years takes us back to an entirely different time period.

Right or wrong I believe the Landis emails will give the WADA/USADA enough reason to request the retest of the individuals samples from the time period in question.

 

[offbyone]

Of course old samples should be retested. All the time. Every time there is a new test. What good would it do for cycling, you ask. Well, maybe it would make riders think twice before risking their health experimenting with dangerous drugs meant for veterinarian use. More important things are at stake here than "a generation of palmares". Livers, kidneys, lives. No young riders should have to risk that to be a part of the sport they loved since they were kids.

The way it is now, they have to use doping to be part of pro cycling. It simply can't be done without. As long as just one single rider does it, all others have to also, or else they don't have a chance. They are under great pressure to do what's necessary and everybody knows this, DS, team owner etc. When a rider is winning, everybody are making money. But when the rider is caught he is suddenly alone. Morally and financially. The risk is his alone. The riders are being used. Big money are being made by race organizers etc. pretending not to know what is happening. It is sickening.

When Floyd Landis describes riders injecting blood they drew themselves under primitive conditions and stored in somebodys closet for weeks! Have you any idea how dangerous?

It all has to come down. UCI has to go.

Fair opinion. However, personally, I would be devastated by the result. Sponsorship dollars would dry up, general interest in racing would fall off, races would disappear, the ones that remained would lose coverage. Sure this would start from the top, but it would also end up hurting smaller local racing too.

And for what? So we could clear the air and officially announce that professional cycling was rife with drugs in the 90s and early 2010s. I would much rather focus on stopping it in the future, not the past.

 

[workingclasshero]

Lance? Lance? Come on Lance...are you there? Can you hear me?

i'm afraid he's gone to pick up his kids, being an aspiring dad of the year and all
ps. it is true, he posted it on his twitter himself. him picking up his own children i mean. what a great father he is, i wish someone else could follow the lead of this true american hero.

 

[mr. tibbs]

Fair opinion. However, personally, I would be devastated by the result. Sponsorship dollars would dry up, general interest in racing would fall off, races would disappear, the ones that remained would lose coverage. Sure this would start from the top, but it would also end up hurting smaller local racing too.

And for what? So we could clear the air and officially announce that professional cycling was rife with drugs in the 90s and early 2010s. I would much rather focus on stopping it in the future, not the past.

Testing IS about the future. The problem hasn't gone away, and the guys who would get busted are still around and I think we can all agree they're still doping in ways that won't be detectable for another few years.

Ignoring the past is ignoring the present is ignoring the future.

 

[offbyone]

i accept the point you are making and yes testing everyone could get messy, but maybe that is necessary to promote cycling as a clean sport, the culture will not change if people are still getting away with doping.

Maybe so. I don't disagree with your point. I guess i am just optimistically hoping we don't need to take that giant step back in order to move forward. As other posters have noted most of the older doping methods used would be promptly caught by todays' tests. I would much rather see the doping agencies focus on catching tomorrow's doping methods than investing energy into the past.

 

[Anonymous]

i'm afraid he's gone to pick up his kids, being an aspiring dad of the year and all
ps. it is true, he posted it on his twitter himself. him picking up his own children i mean. what a great father he is, i wish someone else could follow the lead of this true american hero.

goddamn...if only I could be on my how ever many ex wives and being a baby daddy twittering about that...with 100 million in the bank...after beating ****ing cancer? man, I would be the man...alas I cant follow...don't have the balls...

 

[Race Radio]

Put Lance and Landis in the same room and make them take a polygraph test side by side.

Armstrong is a sociopath. He would have no problem passing a lie detector.

 

[D Avoid]

Fair opinion. However, personally, I would be devastated by the result. Sponsorship dollars would dry up, general interest in racing would fall off, races would disappear, the ones that remained would lose coverage. Sure this would start from the top, but it would also end up hurting smaller local racing too.

And for what? So we could clear the air and officially announce that professional cycling was rife with drugs in the 90s and early 2010s. I would much rather focus on stopping it in the future, not the past.

You stop the future by cutting off the past, completely.

 

[asnicol]

. I would much rather see the doping agencies focus on catching tomorrow's doping methods than investing energy into the past.

i agree totally on this point but if Frei can dodge the bio passport for two years then only screw up due to not diluting appropriately i hope we can catch doping methods sooner, whether that can be achieved or not i cannot say

 

[Irish2009]

First off i'm not pro or anti Armstrong, but what makes me think there could be some deal between him and the UCI is this. There is currently a pro rider winning races who has been banned in one country by an anti doping agency but the UCI has done nothing to sanction him, is he part of a golden circle? I don't know, however if what Landis said is true about Armstrong visiting the UCI to sort out a positive test, could there be travel records, flight manifests, to prove he at least traveled to UCI headquarters for some reason.......where's the investagitive jornalists out there?????????????

 

[L29205]

Maybe so. I don't disagree with your point. I guess i am just optimistically hoping we don't need to take that giant step back in order to move forward. As other posters have noted most of the older doping methods used would be promptly caught by todays' tests. I would much rather see the doping agencies focus on catching tomorrow's doping methods than investing energy into the past.

What you are talking about is ignoring the past. The dopers are always ahead of the testing that has always been the case and will probably always will be. That is why the fear of a retroactive test in the future will help stop what is happening in the present. IMHO

 

[Anonymous]

Jeebus, I literally almost crashed the car at that one ( note to self - quit reading this stuff in the car) !!

There are a bunch of fanboys over there that clearly aren't on the page.....


It would be interesting to know if that post is still there, or has been "removed" by now??

5 minutes ago it was still there...