Landis threatened?

[Oldman]

Wow, now with all of these inconsistencies, there has to be some audit done. Nothing is adding up.

He sounds pathetic in his protestations.

With the UCI filing cease and desist orders and contradicting themselves you would be correct, an audit would be due. Novitsky's investigation will have no authority to conduct one and unless McQuaid finds some magic to protect his history the UCI will not cooperate. It's clear Landis allegations has struck a nerve in the right places.
As for LA being pursued for fraud I still contend that will only be on a US civil level for sponsor deals depending on his "cleanliness". Until he lies to the wrong person in court there won't be any basis to pursue him; it's expensive and time consuming.
Meanwhile his personal stock is taking the well-deserved Market Correction the rest of the world has to deal with. His will to fight and his ego combined will not stop the inevitable decline of his legacy. Hopefully he decides not to do the Tour so other riders can be highlighted. On the other hand, everyone likes to watch a train wreck.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

With the UCI filing cease and desist orders and contradicting themselves you would be correct, an audit would be due. Novitsky's investigation will have no authority to conduct one and unless McQuaid finds some magic to protect his history the UCI will not cooperate. It's clear Landis allegations has struck a nerve in the right places.
As for LA being pursued for fraud I still contend that will only be on a US civil level for sponsor deals depending on his "cleanliness". Until he lies to the wrong person in court there won't be any basis to pursue him; it's expensive and time consuming.
Meanwhile his personal stock is taking the well-deserved Market Correction the rest of the world has to deal with. His will to fight and his ego combined will not stop the inevitable decline of his legacy. Hopefully he decides not to do the Tour so other riders can be highlighted. On the other hand, everyone likes to watch a train wreck.

As a matter of jurisdiction, the only way to impeach the statements of the UCI would be during the investigation of LA and his crew. If they have conflicting amounts being transferred or allocated in some way to them, then the smoke cloud over the UCI gets bigger and darker. i do agree that it is out of the US Fed jurisdiction to look at the UCI.

Other sponsors could eventually go after LA for civil fraud. As a starter, the concept of a federal whistleblower bringing a case for the USPS is what I consider the likely legal step. But only after USADA has a certain amount of corroboration. They get that, and that would seem to facilitate a whistleblower case, from an evidenciary standpoint.

Should that come to fruition, and the USPS/Govt open a case looking into Tailwind and crew, with a corroborated USADA charge, that is when the Livestrong yellow submarine is scuttled. Having the Feds come down on them in that fashion means it is truly and utterly over.

For Novitsky, being on the pointy end of things, gathering the evidence, getting the warrants and lining up charges and indictments, all of this take a large amount of orchestrating. Who better to "coordinate" the start witness than his colleague Leo?

Sure, this will be a long running scenario, however if a lowly GIS professional from Ireland can string it together with some Google effort and basic knowledge, the professionals will have it all figured out.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The UCI's careful letter to Landis tells us a couple of things. First, they are loathe to file a lawsuit, it seems. Filing suit would open them up to testimony under oath, and it would certainly open them to discovery of the donation money. At this point, the letter from the UCI's GC is nothing more than a scare tactic.

Landis impugned the credibility of the UCI, and so far, the UCI has only responded with a carefully worded "please stop." That speaks volumes to the reluctance on the part of the UCI to enter into any sort of litigation.

Second, the confusion over the payments continues to eat at the UCI's remaining credibility. Any investigator's going to look at this skeptically. These types of errors are practically magnets for the attention of someone prosecuting or investigating fraud.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

The UCI's careful letter to Landis tells us a couple of things. First, they are loathe to file a lawsuit, it seems. Filing suit would open them up to testimony under oath, and it would certainly open them to discovery of the donation money. At this point, the letter from the UCI's GC is nothing more than a scare tactic.

Landis impugned the credibility of the UCI, and so far, the UCI has only responded with a carefully worded "please stop." That speaks volumes to the recalcitrance on the part of the UCI to enter into any sort of litigation.

Second, the confusion over the payments continues to eat at the UCI's remaining credibility. Any investigator's going to look at this skeptically. These types of errors are practically magnets for the attention of someone prosecuting or investigating fraud.

Has this letter come public? You write like it has, do you have a link?

 

[Polish]

PEDs were a part of track and field a long time before BALCO and Marion Jones et al., probably as much if not more so than in cycling, so what exactly is your point?

My point is that Fraud is TAKING millions and millions of dollars from people.
Lance GENERATED millions and millions of dollars for people.
Lance increased Global GDP in his own small way.

Did Lance hurt the USPS by winning the Tour de France?
Of course not - Lance helped the USPS by winning.
The USPS was hoping Lance would win. USPS paid Lance to win.
Sure, the SCA were betting that Lance would lose. Bad move.
The SCA tried to weasel out of paying. There's Fraud for you...
Are they even still in business?

 

[VeloCity]

As a matter of jurisdiction,

Who does have jurisdiction over the UCI anyway? The Swiss government, as the UCI is based in Switzerland (and, I assume, registered as a Swiss entity)?

 

[VeloCity]

My point is that Fraud is TAKING millions and millions of dollars from people./QUOTE]Fraud would be taking millions in US taxpayer sponsorship money and using it to buy illegal substances. Fraud would be using money donated to a charity - say Livestrong - and using it to purchase illegal substances or for personal use, like, say, to the UCI.

That is what Novitsky is interested in looking into, among other things, and yes, if true, it is fraud.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

My point is that Fraud is TAKING millions and millions of dollars from people.
Lance GENERATED millions and millions of dollars for people.
Lance increased Global GDP in his own small way.

Did Lance hurt the USPS by winning the Tour de France?
Of course not - Lance helped the USPS by winning.
The USPS was hoping Lance would win. USPS paid Lance to win.
Sure, the SCA were betting that Lance would lose. Bad move.
The SCA tried to weasel out of paying. There's Fraud for you...
Are they even still in business?

If the USPS "knew" that Lance/Tailwind used PEDS, they would have surely severed the contract.

If Lance/Tailwind conspired over a period of year to perform this activity, preventing the USPS from truly knowing the method by which they were achieving the results, which as it was surely increased their funding, and enriched themselves in the process, then they are toast.

That the PED use took place is the first issue legal issue. That is why USADA can squeeze riders, with the Fed (Big Brother) holding the big stick as leverage.


That the PED program, funded from the team budget, was withheld, shielded, obscured, avoided, falsified, or obstructed from the USPS, when had they known they would have cancelled the contract, then there is your fraud.

It is fraud.

Dice it how you like but it does not change.

Your other points are immaterial and invalid. Fail.

 

[MacRoadie]

Did Lance hurt the USPS by winning the Tour de France? Of course not - Lance helped the USPS by winning.

Exactly!

Before Lance, I had never even heard of the Post Office. I'd still be hand-delivering my own mail if it weren't for my newfound awareness.

Ben Franklin probably wishes Lance was born about 200 or so years earlier.

 

[Tubeless]

the truth is all of the top riders are dopers.............if you are going to make an example get them all............

I consider all the winners frauds.........does this make you happy?

Most dopers just want to get into a good team, stay employed and win a race or two. Armstrong sought to ennrich himself through doping in multiple ways and he recognized early that he needs his team mates to be doped as well to get there.

Armstrong has been the public face of the team, ringleader and the organizer. He's always been a part-owner of the business that runs the team. He has made public representations about being squeaky clean to funders, sponsors, supporters and anti-doping officials - even on TV commercials paid for by a sponsor ("What am I on?" - Nike ad).

Consider these points:

1. He may have pressured other bikers to dope as a condition to stay employed with the team.
2. He may be guilty of a false-claims act with a quasi-government agency.
3. He may have organized the purchase of restricted PEDs with government money.
4. He may have bribed a foreign official or organization.
5. He's been intimidating witnesses in his civil battles.
6. He has likely lied under oath.
7. He may have committed insurance fraud.

These are not the actions of your typical doper-biker. Most are unique to Armstrong. Which ones will stick and be relevant to a law that may have been broken is no doubt the present focus.

But to compare this case to your everyday doping case is missing the point.

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

Do they all give payoffs to the UCI? Do they all intimidate anyone that speaks out against doping? Do they all enlist legions of groupies to abuse anyone that questions the myth?

I agree the hate is out of control. All that hate directed toward Walsh, Lemond, Simeoni, Betsy, Frankie, etc. is irrational.

I don't know..........do they pay off people?
time will tell, my feeling is that when it is uncovered they are all dopers etc you will be less harsh on the rest of the scoundrels

why isn't Dopador being investigated for OP?

maybe he made a donation or is just protected

 

[Polish]

If the USPS "knew" that Lance/Tailwind used PEDS, they would have surely severed the contract.

.

Surely??
How do you know that lol?

The doping accusations were flying around through rain, and sleet, and gloom of night the entire time USPS was sponsoring. SSDD SSDD SSDD SSDD ETC

C'mon, USPS did not know? Seriously? C'mon.
USPS was happy as long as Lance won. Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Now if Lance DID dope and got results like Cadel - THAT would be Fraud.
THAT would be a waste of taxpayer monies.

 

[CPAvelo]

finally someone able to see the hate directed at Armstrong and see the truth in how this will all unfold

If the federal government is investigating the matter, it seems naive to conclude this is all about hate directed at Armstrong.

A federal investigation, by itself, is inconclusive. But if a Grand Jury is convened and/or if charges are prosecuted, then there will be real gravity to the allegations and insinuations raised by Landis.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Has this letter come public? You write like it has, do you have a link?

Yep, it was reported this morning here and a couple other places.
Here's the link to the CN article.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-demands-landis-cease-accusations

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Yep, it was reported this morning here and a couple other places.
Here's the link to the CN article.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-demands-landis-cease-accusations

Sure, got that. I actually meant did the physical letter or facsimile surface? The text would be interesting to be able to read.

 

[scribe]

Have you ever posted on a thread that is not related to Wonderboy? Missed you on the daily Giro threads and during the classics.

I agree with you on the wack jobs. Carboncrank, Gree, BPC and his 40 usernames do tend to suck the air out of the forum.

Of course you missed me, because you weren't in very many of them.

 

[Boeing]

But what's keeping Kristen from lying? I mean if she says no, who's going to come out and say Kristen is lying. It's just easier to say "No, I didn't see anything" just as all the witnesses deposed in the SCA case did. Look what happened to Frankie after he lied in his deposition.

Exactly

Cooperation does not mean she will spill

however isn't she a nurse by trade?

 

[scribe]

I don't know..........do they pay off people?
time will tell, my feeling is that when it is uncovered they are all dopers etc you will be less harsh on the rest of the scoundrels

why isn't Dopador being investigated for OP?

maybe he made a donation or is just protected

I think this is accurate. Imagine what a sham cycling would become if their retroactive testing was regularly awarding GT championships to 15th place riders.

 

[Anonymous]

Surely??
How do you know that lol?

The doping accusations were flying around through rain, and sleet, and gloom of night the entire time USPS was sponsoring. SSDD SSDD SSDD SSDD ETC

C'mon, USPS did not know? Seriously? C'mon.
USPS was happy as long as Lance won. Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Now if Lance DID dope and got results like Cadel - THAT would be Fraud.
THAT would be a waste of taxpayer monies.

The major difference between the time before the Landis bombshell and now is plausible deniability. He had it then, he no longer has it now.

I realize you like the pot stirred and that serves your entertainment needs, but this post was bad. Even your attempt at humor was a failure.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Surely??
How do you know that lol?

The doping accusations were flying around through rain, and sleet, and gloom of night the entire time USPS was sponsoring. SSDD SSDD SSDD SSDD ETC

C'mon, USPS did not know? Seriously? C'mon.
USPS was happy as long as Lance won. Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

Now if Lance DID dope and got results like Cadel - THAT would be Fraud.
THAT would be a waste of taxpayer monies.

I find your simpleton view of how things work in big business/govt contract amusing.

As with nearly any sporting contract, for the purpose of endorsement or marketing, etc., there is typically a series of items regarding severability. Under that heading would be standard language covering "conduct unbecoming", use of prohibited substances or methods, or an overarching connection that cites adherence to all applicable laws, as well as those of the applicable sport.

Hence, should it be shown that the Lance/Tailwind crew used PEDs during the term under which they represented the USPS, and received money, this would be in breach, hiding it would be fraud, and taking more money along the way based on their wins would constitute greater fraud. That a portion of the money provided was used to obtain the PEDs becomes central to the issue as well.

Is this really so hard for you to grasp? If you are inclined, read more here:

http://www.taf.org/federalfca.htm

 

[Boeing]

..the slant to screw Armstrong is much greater on this site due to the haters........I'm an equal opportunity hater.........t

I agree with this statement.

for the record, I agree Lance Doped and dislike him for my own reasons and some stated here. I believe Flandis now too.

However the objectivity on the anti lance slant exists only with a few. It is like a personal victory for some every shot he takes.

What next? If he gets a conviction and stripped of the 7 do you all burn down your neighborhood to celebrate?

Although if the Lakers win we do the same here

 

[Boeing]

I find your simpleton view of how things work in big business/govt contract amusing.

As with nearly any sporting contract, for the purpose of endorsement or marketing, etc., there is typically a series of items regarding severability. Under that heading would be standard language covering "conduct unbecoming", use of prohibited substances or methods, or an overarching connection that cites adherence to all applicable laws, as well as those of the applicable sport.

Hence, should it be shown that the Lance/Tailwind crew used PEDs during the term under which they represented the USPS, and received money, this would be in breach, hiding it would be fraud, and taking more money along the way based on their wins would constitute greater fraud. That a portion of the money provided was used to obtain the PEDs becomes central to the issue as well.

Is this really so hard for you to grasp? If you are inclined, read more here:

http://www.taf.org/federalfca.htm

Interesting post.

If they can prove Fraud today, what are the ramifications to each party within that contract now? Can a sponsor seek reparations? Damages?

How many parties are involved then? Can Tailwind separate themselves from LA, Johan?

 

[scribe]

I agree with this statement.

for the record, I agree Lance Doped and dislike him for my own reasons and some stated here. I believe Flandis now too.

However the objectivity on the anti lance slant exists only with a few. It is like a personal victory for some every shot he takes.

What next? If he gets a conviction and stripped of the 7 do you all burn down your neighborhood to celebrate?

Although if the Lakers win we do the same here

Well, the philosophy is..... Lance is probably gonna walk out of this, but if I post 10,000 times with variations of 'he is screwed', it just might become a reality (or seem that way).

 

[Wheels Go Round and Round]

I think this is accurate. Imagine what a sham cycling would become if their retroactive testing was regularly awarding GT championships to 15th place riders.

lol............. I hear you..........

fact is: NO ONE WANTS TO SEE PLOW HORSES go up mountains. Watching doped riders fly up them gives us something to watch.........it's fascinating to see what a doped up human body can achieve compared to us mere mortal non dopers

 

[workingclasshero]

Exactly!

Before Lance, I had never even heard of the Post Office. I'd still be hand-delivering my own mail if it weren't for my newfound awareness.

i have the same thing going with cancer, i'd never have known about it if i hadn't had lance telling me to give money to him for some cheap yellow armband. thank fúck for cancer awareness.