LeMond II

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

It's an interesting read: http://www.marsdd.com/mars-library/amgen-a-biotechnology-success-story-from-drug-development-to-the-mass-market/

Thanks, reading now as I can't really work with a messed up finger!

yeah, and regardless of whether the story is true, i'm sort of surprised that such rumors were circulating about lemond, and that (to my knowledge) it never before surfaced here in the clinic.
he's basically being accused of having started the EPO arms race.

Except Armstrong offered some ridiculous reward if you could prove it? You'd think someone would have some info worth the reward?

These two points do make me doubt that it's true. Interesting never the less. I have to admit I've always believed in LeMond and it would take a lot to convince me otherwise.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Epogen was first approved in 1989, but tests were carried out in the 1980's with, I think, the first paper published in 1987:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3537801


It's not inconceivable that Greg was part of a clinical trial after his accident and he continued to use it afterwards, so impossible is a strong word. Unlikely yes, impossible no.

yeah, and regardless of whether the story is true, i'm sort of surprised that such rumors were circulating about lemond, and that (to my knowledge) it never before surfaced here in the clinic.
he's basically being accused of having started the EPO arms race.

Except Armstrong offered some ridiculous reward if you could prove it? You'd think someone would have some info worth the reward?

it's exactly why i'm surprised it didn't come up before.
also in here people have attempted to find dirt on greg.
indeed, the story about the story could be wrong.
i can't find an original source for it, other than that one link.

 

[sniper]

viewtopic.php?p=851076#p851076

viewtopic.php?p=850216#p850216

 

[sniper]

lemond accidentally got shot by his brother in law:
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-12-04/sports/sp-5740_1_greg-lemond
Pellets were removed from LeMond's liver, kidneys and intestines.

fishy at best.
are there any fotos of him in the hospital?
another TdF winner with an 'amazing' recovery story...

 

[sniper]

http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=1904.0

 

[sniper]

http://bestoflemond.blogspot.com/2007/04/hunting-accident-1987.html
allegedly that's him after the shooting.
is that a non-believing Lance in the comment section?

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Re:

lemond accidentally got shot by his brother in law:
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-12-04/sports/sp-5740_1_greg-lemond
Pellets were removed from LeMond's liver, kidneys and intestines.

fishy at best.
are there any fotos of him in the hospital?
another TdF winner with an 'amazing' recovery story...

you didn,t know?...
bestoflemond.blogspot.in/2007/04/hunting-accident-1987.html?m=1

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

lemond accidentally got shot by his brother in law:
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-12-04/sports/sp-5740_1_greg-lemond
Pellets were removed from LeMond's liver, kidneys and intestines.

fishy at best.
are there any fotos of him in the hospital?
another TdF winner with an 'amazing' recovery story...

you didn,t know?...
bestoflemond.blogspot.in/2007/04/hunting-accident-1987.html?m=1

indeed, didn't know, and haven't seen it discussed in the clinic.
i wonder how many tdf champions get accidentally shot?
sounds only slightly more plausible than bilharzia.
but it seems it really happened.
and all the reports note that his kidneys got hit.
which in turn increases the plausibility of the EPO rumors, although i can't find the original source for that.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Re: Re:

lemond accidentally got shot by his brother in law:
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-12-04/sports/sp-5740_1_greg-lemond
Pellets were removed from LeMond's liver, kidneys and intestines.

fishy at best.
are there any fotos of him in the hospital?
another TdF winner with an 'amazing' recovery story...

you didn,t know?...
bestoflemond.blogspot.in/2007/04/hunting-accident-1987.html?m=1

indeed, didn't know, and haven't seen it discussed in the clinic.
i wonder how many tdf champions get accidentally shot?
sounds only slightly more plausible than bilharzia.
but it seems it really happened.
and all the reports note that his kidneys got hit.
which in turn increases the plausibility of the EPO rumors, although i can't find the original source for that.

you dont believe he got shot?

 

["Jeff"]

Re: LeMond

Its remarkable somebody on this forum didnt know LeMond got shot in 1987. What a diehard cycling fan.

I cant find it anymore but there's a picture somewhere on the internet with LeMond and a 30cm+ scar. Pretty impressive.

 

[pmcg76]

Re: Re:

lemond accidentally got shot by his brother in law:
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-12-04/sports/sp-5740_1_greg-lemond
Pellets were removed from LeMond's liver, kidneys and intestines.

fishy at best.
are there any fotos of him in the hospital?
another TdF winner with an 'amazing' recovery story...

you didn,t know?...
bestoflemond.blogspot.in/2007/04/hunting-accident-1987.html?m=1

indeed, didn't know, and haven't seen it discussed in the clinic.
i wonder how many tdf champions get accidentally shot?
sounds only slightly more plausible than bilharzia.
but it seems it really happened.
and all the reports note that his kidneys got hit.
which in turn increases the plausibility of the EPO rumors, although i can't find the original source for that.

you dont believe he got shot?

---edited by mod----

Yes, the No 1 Tour rider in the world whose closeset rival(Hinault) had just retired, faked getting himself shot, ruining the next two seasons of his career just so he could stage a miraculous comeback by blood doping.

 

[MacRoadie]

Re: Re:

lemond accidentally got shot by his brother in law:
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-12-04/sports/sp-5740_1_greg-lemond
Pellets were removed from LeMond's liver, kidneys and intestines.

fishy at best.
are there any fotos of him in the hospital?
another TdF winner with an 'amazing' recovery story...

you didn,t know?...
bestoflemond.blogspot.in/2007/04/hunting-accident-1987.html?m=1

indeed, didn't know, and haven't seen it discussed in the clinic.
i wonder how many tdf champions get accidentally shot?
sounds only slightly more plausible than bilharzia.
but it seems it really happened.
and all the reports note that his kidneys got hit.
which in turn increases the plausibility of the EPO rumors, although i can't find the original source for that.

you dont believe he got shot?

I didn't think there was a single cycling fan that didn't know about Greg getting shot by his BIL. It's right up there with Eugène Christophe fixing his own forks in 1913, or Andy Hampsten on the Gavia.

You can't read a single book, biography (no matter how small), web page, Wikipedia article, or press kit on Greg that doesn't highlight that episode and its impact on his career. Greg has also said in many, many interviews that he often questioned whether the remaining lead shot in his body (some in the lining of his heart) was the cause of his declining performance upon his comeback.

Just amazing.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

lemond accidentally got shot by his brother in law:
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-12-04/sports/sp-5740_1_greg-lemond
Pellets were removed from LeMond's liver, kidneys and intestines.

fishy at best.
are there any fotos of him in the hospital?
another TdF winner with an 'amazing' recovery story...

you didn,t know?...
bestoflemond.blogspot.in/2007/04/hunting-accident-1987.html?m=1

indeed, didn't know, and haven't seen it discussed in the clinic.
i wonder how many tdf champions get accidentally shot?
sounds only slightly more plausible than bilharzia.
but it seems it really happened.
and all the reports note that his kidneys got hit.
which in turn increases the plausibility of the EPO rumors, although i can't find the original source for that.

you dont believe he got shot?

zam, take it easy on the weed
and read...

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I sometimes wonder does sniper even really follow cycling? i have asked him but i believe i did not get a straight answer?

 

[sniper]

Re: LeMond

[quote=""Jeff"":22wotk97]Its remarkable somebody on this forum didnt know LeMond got shot in 1987. What a diehard cycling fan.

I cant find it anymore but there's a picture somewhere on the internet with LeMond and a 30cm+ scar. Pretty impressive.[/quote]
ok, would love to see it.
no, didn't know.
what about the kidney-epo rumor?
has that been discussed at any point?

 

[sniper]

Re:

I sometimes wonder does sniper even really follow cycling? i have asked him but i believe i did not get a straight answer?

i sometimes wonder why you wonder.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

I didn't think there was a single cycling fan that didn't know about Greg getting shot by his BIL. It's right up there with Eugène Christophe fixing his own forks in 1913, or Andy Hampsten on the Gavia.

You can't read a single book, biography (no matter how small), web page, Wikipedia article, or press kit on Greg that doesn't highlight that episode and its impact on his career. Greg has also said in many, many interviews that he often questioned whether the remaining lead shot in his body (some in the lining of his heart) was the cause of his declining performance upon his comeback.

Just amazing.

you'd make a great teacher.
that's instructive.

 

[sniper]

@macroadie, you ever heard of the kidney related epo rumors?
my only source says Rudy Dhaenens allegedly talked about it somewhere.

 

[the sceptic]

I usually believe Lemond to be cleans, but his new found love for dopers gives me a bit more doubt.

I mean, the guy was clearly never anti-doping, it was all about Lance. Which is fine, but it gives me less faith in him when he doesn't care about present day doping.

 

[MacRoadie]

Re:

@macroadie, you ever heard of the kidney related epo rumors?
my only source says Rudy Dhaenens allegedly talked about it somewhere.

No, I have not.

 

[the delgados]

Re:

lemond accidentally got shot by his brother in law:
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-12-04/sports/sp-5740_1_greg-lemond
Pellets were removed from LeMond's liver, kidneys and intestines.

fishy at best.
are there any fotos of him in the hospital?
another TdF winner with an 'amazing' recovery story...

I've taken a lot of flack on this forum in the past for questioning whether Lemond won Le Tour on bread and water, but this is pretty amazing.
Yes, there are photos of Lemond in the hospital. Then again, based on what you're saying, maybe the photos were set up as a ruse. Maybe he set up some fake hospital photos in the off season in order to stage a miraculous comeback and capture everyone's hearts.
I find it hard to believe that Lemond is the only clean Tour winner since the race's inception, but c'mon, man. Let's not get too carried away.

 

[sniper]

Re:

I usually believe Lemond to be cleans, but his new found love for dopers gives me a bit more doubt.

I mean, the guy was clearly never anti-doping, it was all about Lance. Which is fine, but it gives me less faith in him when he doesn't care about present day doping.

the irony would be enormous if there were any truth in the epo story.
not sure why that rumor hasn't gained more traction.
dhaenens unfortunately died in 1998 in a car accident.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

lemond accidentally got shot by his brother in law:
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-12-04/sports/sp-5740_1_greg-lemond
Pellets were removed from LeMond's liver, kidneys and intestines.

fishy at best.
are there any fotos of him in the hospital?
another TdF winner with an 'amazing' recovery story...

I've taken a lot of flack on this forum in the past for questioning whether Lemond won Le Tour on bread and water, but this is pretty amazing.
Yes, there are photos of Lemond in the hospital. Then again, based on what you're saying, maybe the photos were set up as a ruse. Maybe he set up some fake hospital photos in the off season in order to stage a miraculous comeback and capture everyone's hearts.
I find it hard to believe that Lemond is the only clean Tour winner since the race's inception, but c'mon, man. Let's not get too carried away.

another misreader?

as i said above, it seems he really got shot.
Moreover, all the reports confirm his kidneys got injured, which lends credibility to Dhaenens' claims that he got EPO treatment for his kidneys and thus became one of the first epo users in the peloton.
zam as always seems more interested in discussing my (lack of) cycling knowledge.

btw, i'm with you wrt lemond being as dodgy as any other more recent tdf winner.

 

[the delgados]

Re: Re:

lemond accidentally got shot by his brother in law:
http://articles.latimes.com/1990-12-04/sports/sp-5740_1_greg-lemond
Pellets were removed from LeMond's liver, kidneys and intestines.

fishy at best.
are there any fotos of him in the hospital?
another TdF winner with an 'amazing' recovery story...

I've taken a lot of flack on this forum in the past for questioning whether Lemond won Le Tour on bread and water, but this is pretty amazing.
Yes, there are photos of Lemond in the hospital. Then again, based on what you're saying, maybe the photos were set up as a ruse. Maybe he set up some fake hospital photos in the off season in order to stage a miraculous comeback and capture everyone's hearts.
I find it hard to believe that Lemond is the only clean Tour winner since the race's inception, but c'mon, man. Let's not get too carried away.

another misreader?

as i said above, it seems he really got shot.
Moreover, all the reports confirm his kidneys got injured, which lends credibility to Dhaenens' claims that he got EPO treatment for his kidneys and thus became one of the first epo users in the peloton.
zam as always seems more interested in discussing my (lack of) cycling knowledge.

btw, i'm with you wrt lemond being as dodgy as any other more recent tdf winner.

Sorry, I should take time to read more pages rather than jump on one post.

 

[Merckx index]

Re: Re:

dhaenens unfortunately died in 1998 in a car accident.

Now all we need is a picture of Lemond tinkering with the car shortly before the accident.

I rather doubt Greg was given EPO at the time, because it was still an experimental drug then, it was people with kidney disease who really needed it. Greg's problem was acute blood loss, he had to be given immediate transfusions, the doctors couldn't wait around for EPO use to be approved. But depending on how badly his kidneys were damaged by bullets (he didn’t lose either, AFAIK), maybe the transfusions were not enough, and over time it was felt EPO would be helpful.

Even granting that, though, it’s a huge jump to Greg’s using the drug for PE, and introducing it to the peloton. One might think he would immediately see the potential benefits of raising his HT, but really, when you’re close to death, and a doctor says, here’s a new drug that we think will help you, I’m sure the last thing on your mind is, hey, when I recover and return to racing, I can use this drug to improve my V02max. Particularly for someone like Greg, who frankly comes across as somewhat science-challenged. It’s not as though a hospitalized athlete tries to learn as much about every drug he’s given, with the aim of evaluating how it might help his future performance. I doubt Greg could tell you even then, let alone now, all the drugs he was given at the time, let alone what they were given for.