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Lemond/Trek new thread

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Aug 13, 2009
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scribe said:
Why would he be disappointed?

Have not been paying attention?

"teaming up with Ferrari was like putting a saucepan up your backside: it was immediately obvious what you were doing"

-Richard Virenque
 
Aug 13, 2009
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scribe said:
Undoubtedly an irrational comment if true. But hardly proof that Trek Corp was systematically trying to destroy the LeMond brand while under it's sublicensing authority.

If is part of an overall narrative of actions, and inactions, it is.
 
scribe said:
Why would he be disappointed? Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he say he was crushed to learn of that association? If LA is around a homosexual, that must mean he is gay too. Right?

Great straw man argument.
Anyway, he was disapoointed because Ferrari was and is a haemotologist who made no apologies for doping.
Greg felt that these doctors had no place in cycling.

What exactly did Greg say that was unsubstantiated?
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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scribe said:
Undoubtedly an irrational comment if true. But hardly proof that Trek Corp was systematically trying to destroy the LeMond brand while under it's sublicensing authority.

No - it is not the proof, it is the motive.

The proof will be in examining Treks approach to marketing, promoting and advertising of the Lemond brand.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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scribe said:
Why would he be disappointed? Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he say he was crushed to learn of that association? If LA is around a homosexual, that must mean he is gay too. Right?

No. That's only if he goes running shirtless with Mathew McConnoughay.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Race Radio said:
Have not been paying attention?

"teaming up with Ferrari was like putting a saucepan up your backside: it was immediately obvious what you were doing"

-Richard Virenque

scribe said:
Why would he be disappointed? Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he say he was crushed to learn of that association? If LA is around a homosexual, that must mean he is gay too. Right?



these two quotes may have to go together scribe. I know your hero is a big All American alpha male... but...
 
May 18, 2009
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scribe said:
Why would he be disappointed? Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he say he was crushed to learn of that association? If LA is around a homosexual, that must mean he is gay too. Right?

Nice try, but that's not quite the same thing and your argument against free speech is going downhill.

LA sought out and used a doctor that was notorious for doping. Did he seek Ferrari out because of this? Draw your own conclusions. Chris Comical was already his coach so why did he need another?

If you seek out gay friends then I would probably conclude you are gay yourself. That's different than having a random friend that turns out to be gay. Ferrari was not a random doctor.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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scribe said:
Why would he be disappointed? Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he say he was crushed to learn of that association? If LA is around a homosexual, that must mean he is gay too. Right?

Poor analogy. Being gay does not result in a 2 year suspension and possible prison time.

Ferrari is prohibited from coaching any athletes in Italy. Dr. Carlo Santuccione, DiLucca's doping doctor and former Ferrari research partner, has the same sanction.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
No - it is not the proof, it is the motive.

The proof will be in examining Treks approach to marketing, promoting and advertising of the Lemond brand.

From reading Trek's complaint, they have demonstrated that they complied with the sublicensing agreement in terms of dollar amounts of marketing and development vs agreed-to sales minimums.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
No - it is not the proof, it is the motive.

The proof will be in examining Treks approach to marketing, promoting and advertising of the Lemond brand.

As well as the internal communications. Email sucks if you are Trek.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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scribe said:
From reading Trek's complaint, they have demonstrated that they complied with the sublicensing agreement in terms of dollar amounts of marketing and development vs agreed-to sales minimums.

What would expect them to say? "Yeah, we screwed Greg. Suck it!"?
 
Apr 9, 2009
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scribe said:
From reading Trek's complaint, they have demonstrated that they complied with the sublicensing agreement in terms of dollar amounts of marketing and development vs agreed-to sales minimums.

Well then, case closed. If you would read the Lemond documents (why do I even bother suggesting this) you will learn of the dispute between "minimum amount" and "best efforts."
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Kennf1 said:
Well then, case closed. If you would read the Lemond documents (why do I even bother suggesting this) you will learn of the dispute between "minimum amount" and "best efforts."

I am getting there. Have some free time to read these complaints today. Of course, you could easily pony up a link if it means so much to you that I read 'what you know'.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Race Radio said:
Have not been paying attention?

"teaming up with Ferrari was like putting a saucepan up your backside: it was immediately obvious what you were doing"

-Richard Virenque

It will never cease to amaze me how people who don't want to believe a thing can gloss over the blatantly obvious, and convince themselves there's some meaningful chance that Ferrari is anything but a top-flight doping doctor who is among the best ever at getting athletic results for his clients.

Is he more than a doctor? Of course, he's a brilliant doctor who specializes in performance through doping. His success is unmatched, and clearly his ability to apply his knowledge and techniques to garner athletic success for his clients is nearly unmatched.

No one is using him as a coach to train themselves without dope. No one.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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scribe said:
You own one company with two distinct cycling names associated with your brand. They are at war with one another in the public eye. Not good. What does a company do? When you can't get both sides to agree to drop the fued, you have to assess the situation. One cycling name is all over the papers and public eye currently. One name is legendary, yet fading. Which one do you pick now that you're forced to?

I think the best way to address both sound business practices and ethics would have been to use your power and influence with both legends to force them to keep their dispute out of the public eye. Support both of them and make money with both of them instead of running one into the ground.

flicker said:
I can see this case is going to get ugly. It is not about the money on LeMonds' part. It is about getting back at Lance and TREK. Ultimitely Greg will discredit TREK and Lance. He will get his 10 or 20 mil. He will make Lance look like an A-Hole. He will get big headlines and the lawyers on both sides will line their pockets. Greg will walk away with smug satisfaction that he got his. Same way he helped Floyd look like a smuck.
Problem with Greg is his goal is to destroy U.S. interest in cycling.
My guess is everyone on this site is savy to cheating, Thing is Gregs goal is to prove cycling is a fraud to the general U.S. public. What a shame.

I really think that it was Floyd Landis himself, with some help from his close associate, who made him look like a schmuck. Greg Lemond is doing nothing to destroy US interest in cycling, although he may scare away fans who are only interested in Lance Armstrong. His goal is more accurately described as the destruction of doping in world cycling.

scribe said:
Why would he be disappointed? Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he say he was crushed to learn of that association? If LA is around a homosexual, that must mean he is gay too. Right?

Bad analogy. Ferrari was known for his association to doping. It's fair to be disappointed when the 3 time TDF champion is working with such a man.
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Dr. Maserati said:
So - it is a contractual dispute??

And the Judge will give their considered opinion on the matter unless it is settled before the trial.

Link to Lemond V Trek.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2472984/LeMond-Cyclings-March-2008-Lawsuit-vs-Trek-Bikes

Yes. It is a contractual dispute, of an entirely emotional nature! :D

Working through LeMond's complaint now.

article 18ish. He claims Trek never complained to LeMond regarding his public anti-doping stance prior to Armstrong's affiliation with Trek....1998.

article 23. Cites that Armstrong and associates sought to do harm to the LeMond brand. Does not cite anything specific, only generalization.

Article 45. Cites Trek's obligation to send LeMond to promote his products at a minimum of "30 working days". LeMond claims he did as much at his own expense.

Article 47. Claims GL has performed in a "professional and conscientious manner"

Article 52. Claims Ferrari was connected to doping as early as 1999. (I thought he was known to have been involved in this much earlier?)

Article 61. LeMond warns trek in 2001 that it shouldn't have its brand associated with Armstrong's team, because of information he had regarding doping.

Article 65. Claims Armstrong representative leaked testimony given by LeMond in a 2005 subpoena. Doesn't site anyone specifically.

More later. I am tired of reading.
 

Polish

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Mar 11, 2009
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You want a lawsuit?

Not Riding Enough said:
As GL said in that video what Frankie [and of course Betsy as well] have/are doing is much harder than any bike race. I hope they and many others keep standing up.


No offense Mr Enough, but there are PLENTY of things "harder than any bike race.".

And do not feel super sorry for Greg lol. Even though he was one of the first racers to get a million dollar contract and is a founding member of th "GCI" (Greedy Cyclist Inc) club - he is making way more dinero suing people.

Much than he ever made as a pro cyclist. Way more.

Heck, Alberto should fire Fran and hire Greg's Crew....they would negotiate some REAL money for Alberto.

Double heck, Alberto should go after Lance in a Lawsuit for damaging his career. This is as bad as any "screw Greg" tantrum"

"Armstrong stood up and "crowed" at a rival team during dinner at a hotel during the Tour. Armstrong was heard shouting at the unnamed team saying without any provocation:

"You want a rider?"

"you can take this guy...." gesturing at Contador.

The rival team sat in silence as did Contador as Lance stared him down."
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Polish said:
No offense Mr Enough, but there are PLENTY of things "harder than any bike race.".

And do not feel super sorry for Greg lol. Even though he was one of the first racers to get a million dollar contract and is a founding member of th "GCI" (Greedy Cyclist Inc) club - he is making way more dinero suing people.

Much than he ever made as a pro cyclist. Way more.

Heck, Alberto should fire Fran and hire Greg's Crew....they would negotiate some REAL money for Alberto.

Double heck, Alberto should go after Lance in a Lawsuit for damaging his career. This is as bad as any "screw Greg" tantrum"

"Armstrong stood up and "crowed" at a rival team during dinner at a hotel during the Tour. Armstrong was heard shouting at the unnamed team saying without any provocation:

"You want a rider?"

"you can take this guy...." gesturing at Contador.

The rival team sat in silence as did Contador as Lance stared him down."
beside several straw man - mind you one thread already got shut down - you
provided evidence that armstrong is a lowlifer. haven't we discussed this in 100 threads already?
 
A

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SpeedWay said:
That's par for the course here(which is a good thing by the way). With Einstein's definition of insanity, a thread on cycling and its links to mental illness, a thread about business litigation in the Clinic, and a thread post count of "Guinness book of world record" proportions for a thread that degraded so severely that is had to be shut down, it had all the ingredients of being the cyclingnews.com raison d'etre. Bravo to you for your ability to suffer and a wink and a nod to the saner ones amongst us that put that train wreck out of our misery. The Lemond/Trek lawsuit - same as it ever was!

Says the man who has never made a substantive post...
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Polish said:
Point 1.....I do not know why Greg Secretly Taped the Phone Call to Stephanie, but I will guess it was not ethically right. Was it morally justified? Was it it was meant to help homeless people or cancer victims or soon-to-be-laid-off bicycle-assembly-line workers:(??

Depends on your ethical school of thought at the time. There are many ethical theories and applying any of them can lend credence to ones ethics. The term moral or ethical relativism comes to mind. Most people forget this and think by applying the word ethics or ethical to a particular behaviour pattern that they have either proven or disproven, by the singular use of that word, that the behaviour in focus is in fact such. Not the case at all. You need to explain the theory and apply it. Same goes for morals. With the right theory I can ethical say what Hitler did was not only tolerable, but morally right. Does not make it so.

In other words the majority of the world can agree something is ethical, but this does not make it so. Ever heard of the old saying, "have faith that right makes might?" What I am saying is you can't throw the word ethical out there and expect it to be believable or a credit to your argument in the eyes of intelligent thinkers.
 
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scribe said:
If LeMond hadn't made unsubstantiated claims that Armstrong was doping via association, no hassle would have arose. Count me a Armstrong groupie, but I'd prefer testing take the stage, front and center, to combat doping. Not wild assertions from the grand stands. Landis ****ed me off bad enough to quit watching cycling for a year. If LA is back at it, on the sauce to get results, I'd like to see the controls grab him as well.

You think it is "wild" to assert that Dr Ferrari is used almost exclusively for doping regimen? Do you know nothing about the man?
 
Jul 22, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
You think it is "wild" to assert that Dr Ferrari is used almost exclusively for doping regimen? Do you know nothing about the man?

Anyone is welcome to speculate on the nature of the relationship. Is LeMond? That's the question at the heart of this business dispute.