Lesser known Race Results

[Andy99]

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk

Elite Men

1 Bradley Wiggins Sky Pro Cycling 1:04:55
2 Christopher Froome Sky Pro Cycling 1:06:17
3 Geraint Thomas Sky Pro Cycling 1:06:30
4 Michael Hutchinson In Gear/Quickvit/Trainsharp RT 1:06:58
5 Matthew Bottrill I-Ride.co.uk 1:09:34
6 Robert Partridge Endura Racing 1:10:10
7 Andrew Tennant Motorpoint/Marshalls Pasta 1:10:31
8 Jerone Walters Sigmasport/Specialised 1:10:35
9 Matt Clinton Mike Vaughan Cycles 1:10:50
10 Ashley Cox Team Corley Cycles 1:10:56
11 Rob Hayles Endura Racing 1:11:03
12 James Wall Team Echelon Spiuk 1:11:13
13 John Tuckett Activ Cycles Fentimans RT 1:11:16
14 Dale Appleby Team Raleigh 1:11:43
15 Alistair Robinson Team Leslie Bikes 1:12:02

Women
1 Emma Pooley Cervelo Test Team 0:44:30
2 Julia Shaw Utag Yamaha 0:44:49
3 Wendy Houvenaghel Bike Chain Ricci 0:44:57
4 Sharon Laws Cervelo Test Team 0:45:34
5 Emma Trott Moving Ladies 0:46:00
6 Sarah Storey Horizon Fitness RT 0:46:48
7 Claire Galloway Team Zappi's 0:46:57
8 Mathilde Matthysse Ferryhill Whs/Mountain High RT 0:47:29
9 Michelle King Cult Racing 0:47:41
10 Claire Newland Welwyn Whs 0:48:58
11 Jenny Lloyd-Jones London Dynamo Prologue 0:50:01
12 Paula Moseley Climb on Bikes CC 0:50:46
13 Charlotte Easton Cyclefit RT 0:50:48
14 Emma Grant Rapha Condor 0:50:54
15 Bronwen Ewing Rye & Dist Whs 0:51:01

 

[Libertine Seguros]

6 Sarah Storey Horizon Fitness RT 0:46:48

Not bad for a Paralympian. A shame that British Cycling are so reluctant to let her learn her road racing trade at the élite level because they know that they can get easy golds at the Paralympics with her.

 

[Benotti69]

Jeannie Longo is incredible and insane.

and quite possibly a topic for the clinic

 

[DAOTEC]

Result

GP Crédito Agrícola/Costa Azul -- Samuel Caldeira confirma triunfo com vitória na tirada"

3.ª Etapa: Santiago do Cacém – Santiago do Cacém, 132,7 km (Media: 39,800 km/h)

1º 2 CALDEIRA, Samuel POR PALMEIRAS R-PRIO 3:20:03 10″
2º 37 RIBEIRO, Sergio POR BARBOT SIPER mt. 6″
3º 48 SARAIVA, Bruno POR LOULÉ-LOULETANO mt. 4″
4º 73 COELHO, Marco POR LIBERTY -C.RURAL mt.
5º 18 SANCHO, Bruno POR LA-ROTA DOS MÓVEIS mt.
6º 46 SOEIRO, Pedro POR LOULÉ-LOULETANO mt.
7º 97 CARVALHO, Antonio POR MORTÁGUA-BASI mt.
8º 24 CUNHA, Marco POR MADEINOX BOAVISTA mt.
9º 78 RODRIGUES, Vitor POR LIBERTY -C.RURAL mt.
10º 88 LEAL, Helder POR ALUVIA-VALONGO mt.

Final GC:
1º 2 CALDEIRA, Samuel POR PALMEIRAS R-PRIO 07:35:45
2º 37 RIBEIRO, Sergio POR BARBOT SIPER a 07
3º 18 SANCHO, Bruno POR LA-ROTA DOS MÓVEIS a 15
4º 48 SARAIVA, Bruno POR LOULÉ-LOULETANO a 16
5º 97 CARVALHO, Antonio POR MORTÁGUA-BASI a 18
6º 16 PINTO, Edgar POR LA-ROTA DOS MÓVEIS a 19
7º 103 PEREIRA, Vasco POR ASC VITÓRIA-RTL a 19
8º 46 SOEIRO, Pedro POR LOULÉ-LOULETANO a 20
9º 78 RODRIGUES, Vitor POR LIBERTY -C.RURAL a 20
10º 26 SOUSA, Sergio POR MADEINOX BOAVISTA a 20
11º 14 BARBOSA, Márcio POR LA-ROTA DOS MÓVEIS a 20

 

[Anonymous]

and quite possibly a topic for the clinic

definately!

as for the british tt. dissapointing that the state of time trialling over here is so poor that a climber finishes second. More dissapointing is the dispirity between prize monies in the mens and womens events.

 

[DAOTEC]

Result

54th international cycling race TOUR OF SLOVAKIA
Europe Tour cat. 2.2
31. 08. 2010 - 07. 09. 2010

Website: http://www.cyklistikaszc.sk/index.php?id=11

Stage 5: Mosty u Jablunkova - Čadca ITT 19,9km

1. SLO VREČER Robert PERUTNINA PTUJ - TEAM - .24'56" 900
2. GRE TAMOURIDIS Ioannis SP TABLEWARE –CT a 24"
3. CZE BÁRTA Jan TEAM NETAPP – CT UCI - a 31"
4. GER SEUBERT Timon TEAM NETAPP – CT UCI - a 43"
5. CZE KLOUČEK František PSK WHIRLPOOL - AUTHOR-a 43"
6. CZE KÖNIG Leopold PSK WHIRLPOOL - AUTHOR – a 44"
7. BEL PEETERS Rob TELENET - FIDEA –CT UCI -CT a 44"
8. SUI DIETZIKER Andreas TEAM NETAPP – CT UCI a 47"
9. AUT GRAF Andreas ARBÖ GOURMETFEIN WELS – a 47"
10.BEL CLAYES Dimitri TEAM NETAPP – CT UCI a 49"
11.CZE OKROUHLICKÝ Tomáš AC SPARTA PRAHA – CT a 54"
12.CZE KOZUBEK Stanislav PSK WHIRLPOOL - AUTHOR – a 55"
13.BEL DE CLERCQ Bart DAVO – LOTTO – DAV. UCI a 55"
14.RUS MIRONOV Alexander ITERA – KATUSHA - a 1'03"
15.CZE BUCHÁČEK Tomáš PSK WHIRLPOOL - a 1'04"
16.RUS PORSEV Alexander ITERA – KATUSHA -a 1'05"
17.SLO MUGERLI Matej PERUTNINA PTUJ - a 1'08"
18.AUT SCHORN Daniel U23 TEAM NETAPP a 1'14"
19.RUS SOLOMENNIKOV Andrey ITERA – KATUSHA a 1'20"
20.LTU KONDROTAS Simas KALEV CHOCOLATE a 1'23"

GC after stage 5:
1. SLO VREČER Robert PERUTNINA PTUJ 15.29'32"
2. GER SEUBERT Timon TEAM NETAPP – a 1'36"
3. SVK KOVÁČ Maroš DUKLA TRENČÍN MERIDA – a 1'37"
4. RUS MIRONOV Alexander ITERA – KATUSHA - a 1'53"
5. GRE TAMOURIDIS Ioannis SP TABLEWARE- a 2'03"
6. CZE BÁRTA Jan TEAM NETAPP – CT UCI - a 2'15"
7. BEL CLAYES Dimitri TEAM NETAPP – CT UCI- a 2'17"
8. CZE KLOUČEK František PSK WHIRLPOOL - a 2'21"
9. RUS PORSEV Alexander ITERA – KATUSHA -a 2'21"
10.SUI DIETZIKER Andreas TEAM NETAPP – a 2'26"

Full results: http://www.videocom.sk/vysledky/20100901okoloslovenska.data/index.html

Tomorrow stage 6: etapa Čadca - Jaslovské Bohunice 193,4k [Profile]

 

[ak-zaaf]

GP Poeske Scherens:

1 Lars Boom RAB 04u09'24''
2 Maxime Vantomme KAT z.t
3 Fabian Wegmann MRM z.t
4 Björn Leukemans VAC z.t
5 Francesco Reda QST z.t
6 Paul Martens RAB op 0'07''
7 Robbie McEwen KAT op 0'18''
8 Alexander Kristoff BMC z.t
9 Stefan van Dijk WIL z.t
10 Aidis Kruopis PCO z.t
11 Marcel Sieberg TCO z.t
12 Jürgen Roelandts OLO z.t
13 Mitchell Docker SKS z.t
14 Francisco José Ventoso Alberdi CMO z.t
15 Davy Commeyne LAN z.t
16 Kurt Hovelijnck QST z.t
17 Johnny Hoogerland VAC z.t
18 Staf Scheirlinckx OLO z.t
19 Sibrecht Pieters JVB z.t
20 Anthony Ravard ALM z.t

 

[DAOTEC]

Just in

Belgium Kermisse in Bavikhove

1. Ivan Basso (Ita/Liquigas), de 94,5 km in 2u20:00
2. Stijn Devolder (Bel/QuickStep)
3. Sep Vanmarcke (Bel/Topsport Vlaanderen)

 

[DAOTEC]

Result

Website: http://www.vueltaciclistatenerife.com/

Stage 5: 2nd part:
La Laguna (San Cristobal) 45 km Crit.

1º 57 ZHUPA, Eugert ALB TREVICIANI-AYAMON 1:03:21
2º 54 DELLE STELLE, Christia ITA TREVICIANI-AYAMON a 05
3º 55 BARBIN, Enrico ITA TREVICIANI-AYAMON a 05
4º 52 FORTIN, Filippo ITA TREVICIANI-AYAMON a 05
5º 73 KOVALEV, Ivan RUS SEL. RUSIA a 05
6º 53 BOARO, Manuele ITA TREVICIANI-AYAMON a 07
7º 61 CLAIN, Mederic FRA ST.CYR TOURS 37 a 07
8º 146 KNEPPERS, Paul Hendrik HOL C.C. CIPRES a 07
9º 72 KOLESNIKOV, Sergey RUS SEL. RUSIA a 07
10º 37 MARTINEZ, Rory ESP NATURGAS ENERGIA a 07

Final General Classification:

1º 1 BELDA, Jose ESP GUEROLA-V.Terra i Ma 10:00:36 (Campeon)
2º 43 PLAZA, Esteban ESP PROYECTO CIDI a 02:04
3º 21 PEREZ, Israel ESP EXTREMADURA-SPIUK a 08:06
4º 11 NICOLAS, Samuel ESP Mutua LEVANTE-Cafema a 10:05
5º 42 LOPEZ, Fco. Javier ESP PROYECTO CIDI a 15:24
6º 146 KNEPPERS, Paul Hendrik HOL C.C. CIPRES a 17:33
7º 34 MERINO, Igor ESP NATURGAS ENERGIA a 17:54
8º 24 GALLEGO, Alberto ESP EXTREMADURA-SPIUK a 18:03
9º 22 OLMO, Antonio ESP EXTREMADURA-SPIUK a 18:49
10º 62 POMMIERE, Lilian FRA ST.CYR TOURS 37 a 19:12

 

[Libertine Seguros]

GP Crédito Agrícola/Costa Azul -- Samuel Caldeira confirma triunfo com vitória na tirada"

3.ª Etapa: Santiago do Cacém – Santiago do Cacém, 132,7 km (Media: 39,800 km/h)

1º 2 CALDEIRA, Samuel POR PALMEIRAS R-PRIO 3:20:03 10″
2º 37 RIBEIRO, Sergio POR BARBOT SIPER mt. 6″
3º 48 SARAIVA, Bruno POR LOULÉ-LOULETANO mt. 4″
4º 73 COELHO, Marco POR LIBERTY -C.RURAL mt.
5º 18 SANCHO, Bruno POR LA-ROTA DOS MÓVEIS mt.
6º 46 SOEIRO, Pedro POR LOULÉ-LOULETANO mt.
7º 97 CARVALHO, Antonio POR MORTÁGUA-BASI mt.
8º 24 CUNHA, Marco POR MADEINOX BOAVISTA mt.
9º 78 RODRIGUES, Vitor POR LIBERTY -C.RURAL mt.
10º 88 LEAL, Helder POR ALUVIA-VALONGO mt.

Final GC:
1º 2 CALDEIRA, Samuel POR PALMEIRAS R-PRIO 07:35:45
2º 37 RIBEIRO, Sergio POR BARBOT SIPER a 07
3º 18 SANCHO, Bruno POR LA-ROTA DOS MÓVEIS a 15
4º 48 SARAIVA, Bruno POR LOULÉ-LOULETANO a 16
5º 97 CARVALHO, Antonio POR MORTÁGUA-BASI a 18
6º 16 PINTO, Edgar POR LA-ROTA DOS MÓVEIS a 19
7º 103 PEREIRA, Vasco POR ASC VITÓRIA-RTL a 19
8º 46 SOEIRO, Pedro POR LOULÉ-LOULETANO a 20
9º 78 RODRIGUES, Vitor POR LIBERTY -C.RURAL a 20
10º 26 SOUSA, Sergio POR MADEINOX BOAVISTA a 20
11º 14 BARBOSA, Márcio POR LA-ROTA DOS MÓVEIS a 20

Pah, sprinters' race. Interesting that Caldeira would do so well, but Ribeiro will be on the form downturn after peaking at the Volta. Perhaps Caldeira will get more chances to shine next year, rather than just leading out Cândido, since Cândido's contract is up and he's supposed to be going to (and possibly DSing) the new Liberty Seguros team.

 

[DAOTEC]

Result

Vuelta Centenario Gobernación Norte de Santander 2010

Today 5/9 Final stage 4: Alcaldía de Cúcuta circuito Barrio Sevilla, Autopista Atalaya - Llegada Centrales Eléctricas, 93.6 k

4a etapa:
1°J.Salas-GW 2:13:29",
2°J.Alarcon-Zulia,
3°R.Jaramillo-Panachi

General Final:
1°Juan P. Suarez-EPM, {Campeon}
2°Rafael Infantino-EPM,
3°Félix Cardenas-GW,
4°R.Jaramillo-Panachi

@ Libertine thanks for the info any on Barbosa?

 

[DAOTEC]

AMAZING 55k Climbing^^^ Race Result

2010/09/05 - 22:20:09 | Taipei, Sept. 5 (CNA) Lin Huan-tze won an annual mountain uphill cycling race along the Puli and Hohuan highways in central Taiwan for a third straight year Sunday, in record time of 2 hours 55 minutes 2 seconds, organizers said.

The 21-year-old broke his 2009 record, shaving 5 minutes 20 seconds off his time in last year's race. When he took part in the "[Challenge the Ultimate-Wuling Cycling Race]" for the first time in 2008, he won the title by crossing the finish line in 2 hours 56 minutes 7 seconds.

Now in its fourth year, the 55-km cycling race started from the Taiwan Geographical Center Monument in Puli, Nantou County and ended at Wuling on Mount Hohuan at an elevation of 3,275 meters.

Route and Elevation :
Geographical centre tablet in Pu-Li(0KM / 450M)→Ren-Zhi-Quan(16KM / 790M)→Wu-She(22KM / 1170M)→Chin-Jing(29KM / 1600M)→Cui-Feng(39KM / 2330M)→Yuan-Feng(45KM / 2730M)→Kun-Yang(52KM / 3100M)→Wu-Ling(55KM / 3275M)

The race, jointly sponsored by the Nantou County Government and the Taipei Cycling Association, kicked off at 5 a.m.

The race took training, experience, resolve and stamina to complete as it traveled an uphill route, organizers said.

This year's event drew the participation of 5,725 cycling enthusiasts from home and abroad, organizers said, adding that foreign participants hailed from 15 countries, including Japan, China, Thailand, the United States and Canada.

The top winner in the female category was Cheng Shih-hsuan, in a time of three hours.

Source: http://focustaiwan.tw/ShowNews/WebNews_Detail.aspx?ID=201009050019&Type=aSPT

 

[DAOTEC]

Result

Memorial Davide Fardelli-Cronometro Individuale (1.2)

1° Luke Durbridge-20years-Aus (Team Jayco Skins) in 31.44,17 media 47,359 km/h

2° Eugen Wacker (Naz.Kirghizistan)
3° Marcel Kittel (Thuringer Energie Team)

 

[DAOTEC]

Result just in

2010 STEAMBOAT SPRINGS STAGE RACE
Steamboat Springs, CO Stage 2 - Moots Road Race 5/9

Website + Pics.: http://bikesteamboat.com/index.html

Men
1) Stetina Peter-00:30 Garmin-Transitions 2h:58m:24s Boulder
2) Baldwin Chris -00:20 UNITED HEALTH CARE BOULDER
3) Esposti Paul - 00:10 BCV Scion p/b Stevinson Auto Fort Collins
4) Blaugrund Benjamin A "5 Team Hotel San Jose Juwi Solar Boulder
5) de Maar Marc A "5Team United Healthcare St Willebrordus

GC
1) Stetina Peter Garmin-Transitions 5:09:55 Boulder CO
2) Baldwin Chris a "00:24 UNITED HEALTH CARE BOULDER
3) de Maar Marc a "00:55Team United Healthcare St Willebrordus

Ladies:
1) Longo Jeannie (FRA)-2h:37m:11s -00:30 Vital Plus St Martin (born 31 October 1958 in Annecy)
2) Bradshaw Toni a "1.52 -00:20Team VBF Fort Collins
3) Koenig Andrea a "7:41 -00:10 PD Cycling Denver
4) Clark Kasey a "7.58TREADS.COM/DFT Louisville
5) des Cognets Angela a 8.51 Primal/Rocky Mountain Colavita Golden

GC
1) Longo Jeannie (FRA) 4:35:22 Vital Plus St Martin SW (51 years old)

2) Bradshaw Toni a "0:06:11 Team VBF Fort Collins CO SW 1-2 One Day
3) Hottman Megan a "0:12:40 Treads.com/DFT Golden CO SW 1-2 6561

Monday September 6th - Stage 3 - Ski & Bike Kare Criterium

 

[DAOTEC]

Result just in ... "GRAZY" ....

Edwin Ávila (Selección Colombia de pista) and Carlos Guerrero just won circuito de Cajicá
Categoría elite Men
1-Edwin Ávila (Selección Colombia de pista) 1:02:35
2-Juan Pablo Forero (Colombia es Pasión-Café de Colombia) m.t.
3-Armando Cárdenas (Multirepuestos Bosa) m.t.
4-William Rodríguez (Coarali) m.t.
5-Freddy González (Néctar de Cundinamarca-Pinturas Bler) m.t.
6-Juan Pablo Wilches (Facatativá) m.t.

Categoría sub23 Men
1-Carlos Guerrero (Multirepuestos Bosa) 50:05
2-Cristian Talero (Sopó) m.t.
3-Juan Fonseca (Plinios de Fusagasugá) a 5seg
4-Álvaro Duarte (Néctar de Cundinamarca-Pinturas Bler) m.t.
5-Cristian Vanegas (liga de Cundinamarca) m.t.
6-Camilo Castiblanco (Sp Tableware-Gatsolius) m.t.

 

[benpounder]

2010 STEAMBOAT SPRINGS STAGE RACE

Back home for lunch and awaiting SM3, SW1-2,3,35+, and SM Pro 1-2 crits this afternoon.

A couple of shots of the leaders from Saturday's Curcuit (a wicked course).
Peter Stetina (Garmin-Transitions)

Jeannie Longo (Vital Plus)

Men on the downhill

 

[DAOTEC]

Beautiful benpounder super.

Today final stage of the 2010 STEAMBOAT SPRINGS STAGE RACE

Monday September 6th - Stage 3 - Ski & Bike Kare Criterium Today 09:03

Can you bring in the results and some more pictures of the race and specialy podium ... please keep a close look with the camera on Jeannie the great will yah.

 

[DAOTEC]

Result

6/9 - Kirmisse Derny Crit. in Wetteren Belgium tonight.

1. Stijn Devolder (Quick Step) 10 points
2. Robbie McEwen AUS (Katusha)12
3. Jurgen Van den Broeck (Omega Pharma)13

 

[benpounder]

Can you bring in the results and some more pictures of the race and specialy podium ... please keep a close look with the camera on Jeannie the great will yah.

Certainly, since you asked...

Yesterday's road race was hell for the women. The men went off at 0800, and the women at 1300. The wind picked up at around 1100 and it was blowing a steady 32km/h with gusts upwards of 40km/hr. The first part of the out and back course was all cross and head winds. We were video-taping (thus pacing the gals) and saw only one attack succeed - Jeannie and Toni Bradshaw. And if they were suffering, the main field was truely hurting. As she rode by just before the finish, Jeannie looked over, shook her head and said "I'm whipped!" She was two minutes in front of Toni (she attacked on the second to last climb) and seven in front of the field.

Today she attacked on the last lap (another climb, well as much as you can get on a typical 1.29km crit) and took her fourth stage win.

Start-Finish line. While there were many dogs around the course today, all were on leash. And for a bit of promo, the scenery is pretty nice too. I've the same view out of my office window (just two blocks away).

At the start. I dont know if Sarah Germundson is watching me take a photo, or wondering just how this 51 year old woman next to her can so thouroughly kick ass.

Getting ready to go...

Just a test attack at the top of the 'hill' early in the race.

 

[benpounder]

(cont)

Stage Podium (left to right): Kasey Clark, Jeannie Longo, Megan Hottman

Final GC Podium: Megan Hottman, Jeannie Longo, Toni Bradshaw

 

[DAOTEC]

WoW (51) must see for everybody all time star, it makes you silent.


Fignon (50) dead ...


Thanks benpounder

 

[DAOTEC]

Result

54th international cycling race TOUR OF SLOVAKIA
Europe Tour cat. 2.2
31. 08. 2010 - 07. 09. 2010

Website: http://www.cyklistikaszc.sk/index.php?id=11

Final Stage 7: Jaslovske Bohunice - Jaslovske Bohunice 148.7k
1. Wouter Wippert Cyclingteam Davo - Lotto 03:33:06
2. Alexander Porsev Katusha st
3. Daniel Schorn Team Netapp st
4. Zdenek Stybar Telenet-Fidea Cycling Team st
5. Werner Riebenbauer RC Arbö - Wels - Gourmetfein st
6. Georgios Karatzios Sp. Tableware- st
7. Simas Kondrotas st
8. Maros Kovác Dukla Trencin - Merida st
9. Robert Gavenda Telenet-Fidea Cycling Team st
10. Matthias Wieneroither RC Arbö - Wels - Gourmetfein st

Final General Classification:
1. Robert Vrecer Obrazi Delo Revije 23:22:34 {Campeon}
2. Timo Seubert Team Netapp 01:36
3. Maros Kovác Dukla Trencin - Merida 01:37
4. Alexander Mironov Katusha 01:53
5. Ioannis Tamouridis Sp. Tableware- 02:03
6. Alexander Porsev Katusha 02:09
7. Jan Barta Team Netapp 02:15
8. Frantisek Kloucek PSK Whirlpool-Author 02:17
9. Dimitri Claeys Team Netapp zt.
10. Daniel Schorn Team Netapp 02:22
11. Andreas Dietziker Vorarlberg-Corratec 02:26
12. Stanislav Kozubek PSK Whirlpool-Author 02:34

 

[DAOTEC]

¿attenciones! Result

42nd Vuelta a Salamanca, Stage 4: Ledesma-Aldeadavila de la Ribera (138k)

1. Moises DUEÑAS ESP, Supermercados Froiz 3:23:12

2. Garcia BELDA, Guerola-Valencia Terra I Mar +03
3. Jesús MERINO, Trasmiera FootOn ESP +27
4. Raúl Garcia DE Mateos, Supermercados Froiz +29
5. Ibon Zugasti, Ibon Azysa-Cetya-Conor +35

GENERAL:
1. DE LA PARTE GONZALEZ, Victor CAJA RURAL ESP 11:03:45
2. CEREZO NAVIA, Jose A CIDADE DE LUGO, C.C. ESP +01:37
3. SIMON CASULLERAS, Jordi CAJA RURAL ESP +01:45
4. GARCÍA DE MATEOS RUBI, Raúl SUPERMERCADOS FROIZ ESP +01:54
5. DUEÑAS NEVADO, Moises SUPERMERCADOS FROIZ ESP +02:28

Moises left in the beginning took a view wheel suckers with him in a hilly breakaway and finished over 2 minutes ahead of the GC leaders, who chased him to death.
http://equipociclistacajarural.blogspot.com/

 

[Anonymous]

closing kilometres of rik van steenbergen live stream
http://www.fromsport.com/v-0/4/118/v-51901.html

about 10k to go as i type this

 

[ak-zaaf]

closing kilometres of rik van steenbergen live stream
http://www.fromsport.com/v-0/4/118/v-51901.html

about 10k to go as i type this

Van Stayen wins. Amazing sprint from the young guy.
McEwen 2nd and Roelandts 3rd I think.