Look at me, I am a Vegan! Can I persuade you to become one too?

[Dear Wiggo]

What a ****** this LA-worshiping clown is.

http://30bananasadaysucks.com/2012/10/harley-johnstone-plagiarises-denise-minger/

There are some other raw vegan practitioners listed on this page: http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/special/raw-vegan-gurus.shtml

Good for research purposes. Enlightening even.

 

[durianrider]

That Billings guy put up some crap about me on the net and only after I reminded him the truth did he finally take it down.

Ever wondered why Billings doesnt put any photos of himself up on the net or do any youtube vids? Exactly. I wouldnt take nutritional advice from someone that cant even run around the block at pace lol!

I was out training today and ate a Koala. Needed a protein hit after being vegan athlete for 11 years. Got 3rd place in Australias toughest 'fun run' on Sunday aka Black Hill Challenge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ_bTNx6V1g

 

[durianrider]

You should go to East Africa.The Masai traditionally eat a diet of Raw meat, raw milk and raw blood.You could tell them that they too fat because of their diet.

Ive got a friend that grew up Masai style. He says its BS that they live on blood, milk and raw meat. He said that they lived on corn, beans, rice, bananas and sugar as their staples and the rich Masai were the ones that could load up on the animal products.

Any smart person just has to work out how much food cows require daily + land space and realise that poor africans can't afford that.

One just has to look at the overweight/obese paleo primal authors to realise that fat you eat IS the fat you wear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVxA6yipv4

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Ive got a friend that grew up Masai style. He says its BS that they live on blood, milk and raw meat. He said that they lived on corn, beans, rice, bananas and sugar as their staples and the rich Masai were the ones that could load up on the animal products.

Any smart person just has to work out how much food cows require daily + land space and realise that poor africans can't afford that.

One just has to look at the overweight/obese paleo primal authors to realise that fat you eat IS the fat you wear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zVxA6yipv4

Masai style - is that like Masai for Westerners? Or are you claiming your "friend" actually grew up with the Masai people? Or are you claiming your friend actually is a Masai tribe member? If the latter, do you have a picture of you and your friend on your facebook page?

And why is it that after all this time noone's told you or you have not realised that your signature- which btw makes most of your posts fail the S/N test - is broken, that your FB link won't work, for example, and that your egotistical nature is resplendent in its double line spaced design.

Have you convinced anyone, through this thread? Or turned all the questioning people away? What's the score, DR?

Again. If DR is not your cup of tea, but you are interested in the raw vegan diet, check out the other raw vegan people on this page: http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/special/raw-vegan-gurus.shtml

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That Billings guy put up some crap about me on the net and only after I reminded him the truth did he finally take it down.

Really? Coz I had a read of this page http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/special/raw-vegan-gurus.shtml - and it's all still there - Billings hasn't taken anything down as far as I can tell.

Maybe you should have another word with him?

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Seriously? Have a friend in a similar situation but she's lactose intolerant also and so uses soy for milk. Do you have any data or studies to back up this advice?

Google is your friend.. But beware, the soybean industry has flooded the internet with their own research that tells you soy based foods cause no harm in any amount. Simply put, and what my original response to the soybean craze was, it's not a good idea to replace entire blocs of a healthy and balanced diet with all kinds of soy based foods, especially milk. Even if you're buying non GMO soy milk it's still full of a bunch of other chem and crap like thickening agents. Moderation and variety are key in every facet of life, including food. I'm not saying cut it out of your diet, just be more mindful of what your intake is. Soy is healthy, to a point.

 

[veganrob]

I stay away from this thread like the plague but I saw Wiggo post so thought it safe.
As Giuseppe says, Soy is ok to a point. One problem is it is so processed. In the milk form is bad because it can mess with hormones a lot. I do not use soy in any form. However, if one was to consume it the best way would be in fermented form.
I am out of here now.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I stay away from this thread like the plague but I saw Wiggo post so thought it safe.
As Giuseppe says, Soy is ok to a point. One problem is it is so processed. In the milk form is bad because it can mess with hormones a lot. I do not use soy in any form. However, if one was to consume it the best way would be in fermented form.
I am out of here now.

Thanks for the input - I will pass it on. My friend chooses the gluten-free versions (being gluten intolerant), not sure if we get the choice of GF and GM-free. Eesh. Personally I drink milk and eat meat with wild abandon (sorry VeganRob), but yeah my friend is on the straight and narrow when it comes to food.

 

[durianrider]

Masai style - is that like Masai for Westerners? Or are you claiming your "friend" actually grew up with the Masai people? Or are you claiming your friend actually is a Masai tribe member? If the latter, do you have a picture of you and your friend on your facebook page?

Here you go cat face.

Ive actually got 4 friends from Masai tribes in Kenya. NONE of them eat the raw meat, blood and milk diet you claim builds world class runner peformance.

This photo was when we were in Thailand training and racing together. Ive got some video footage to put up on my youtube channel about what Kenyans actually eat etc. Stay tuned.

 

[durianrider]

Cat face, take a deep breath, watch this vid and relax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbEJfJlvp4E&feature=plcp

 

[durianrider]

 

[elapid]

One just has to look at the overweight/obese paleo primal authors to realise that fat you eat IS the fat you wear.

BS. If you could get past your ego and what works for you and a few of your friends, then you may be able to see the bigger picture.

 

[durianrider]

BS. If you could get past your ego and what works for you and a few of your friends, then you may be able to see the bigger picture.

Watch this Elapid and tell me what you think after 56mins... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30gEiweaAVQ

 

[elapid]

Watch this Elapid and tell me what you think after 56mins... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30gEiweaAVQ

OK, I've watched it. What's the point? Are you trying to justify your vegan diet or trying to settle the disagreement we are having over the effects of a high protein diet on weight loss (or diets high in processed, highly refined carbohydrates)?

This video talks about vegan v vegeterian v meat diets, but the meat diets are not high in protein because most of what is quoted is fast foods which contain a high proprotion of highly processed and refined carbohydrates. When Dr. Greger quotes higher levels of IGF-1 and inflammation with meat diets, he ignores the facts that the higher levels of IGF-1 and inflammation are because of the highly processed and refined carbohydrates eaten with these meats. When Dr. Greger talks about weight gain per calories consumed (which is the opposite to your "calories in-calories out" theory), he again is talking about a meat diet consumed with highly processed and refined carbohydrates because a high protein diet avoiding the consumption of highly processed and refined carbohydrates has very low weight gain per calories consumed. Some of the information presented was wrong (meat and colon cancer consumption), some was deliberately alarmist (bacteria in meat) and others preyed on the audience's ignorance (cholestreol and heart disease; in vitro effects of blood on cancer cells), and all did Dr. Greger no services. He also did not mention negative studies, such as that vegan diets increase the risk of tuberculosis.

I have no problem with you or anyone else being vegan. I have a problem with people misrepresenting what is known and not known about diets (or anything else) to suit their own purposes or agenda. Unfortunately, I think you have an agenda and the evidence you use to support your agenda is myopic, not well researched and misleading for those that bother to listen to you.

Again, veganism obviously works for you and your girlfriend. Go for it. But a high protein diet (or alternatively a diet low in highly refined carbohydrates) also works for many people (and for many of the same reasons as a vegan diet). So you can get off your soapbox and learn to be a little less ignorant and little more tolerant.

 

[durianrider]

I agree a high protein diet works for some individuals. Namely members of the vulture and hyena family.

Seriously elapid, do you know any human cultures that are THRIVING on a high protein diet? I don't. ALL the longest lived cultures of humans on earth THRIVED on a high carb low protein, low fat diet.

Even the Okiniwans..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BopvnXsqV0k

I appreciate you watched Gregors presentation though. Hopefully it planted some seeds for you to think about.

 

[elapid]

I agree a high protein diet works for some individuals. Namely members of the vulture and hyena family.

Seriously elapid, do you know any human cultures that are THRIVING on a high protein diet? I don't. ALL the longest lived cultures of humans on earth THRIVED on a high carb low protein, low fat diet.

Again, are we talking weight loss or general diets? This is just a sample of the numerous articles published on the beneficial effects of a high protein/low carbohydrate diet for weight loss. Not individuals, not vultures, not hyenas, but large groups of people (and also highlights that your view on diet and nutrition is predjudicely myopic and intentionally influenced by your agenda).

Clifton P: Effects of high protein diet on body weight and comorbidities associated with obesity. Br J Nutr 108 suppl 2:S122-S129, 2102.

High protein diets are associated with greater satiety and in some studies are associated with greater weight loss compared with high carbohydrate diets especially in an ad libitum design. These diets also lower plasma triglyceride and blood pressure and sometimes spare lean mass. There appear to be no harmful effects of high protein diets on bone density or renal function in weight loss studies.

McCarty MF: The origins of western obesity: a role for animal protein? Med Hypotheses 54:488-494, 2000.

Although dietary protein by itself provokes relatively little insulin release, it can markedly potentiate the insulin response to co-ingested carbohydrate; Western meals typically unite starchy foods with an animal protein-based main course. Thus, postprandial insulin secretion may be reduced by either avoiding animal protein, or segregating it in low-carbohydrate meals; ...

Soenen S, et al: Relatively high-protein or 'low-carb' energy-restricted diets for body weight loss and body weight maintenance? Physiol Behav 107:374-380, 2012.

Body-weight loss and weight-maintenance depends on the high-protein, but not on the 'low-carb' component of the diet, while it is unrelated to the concomitant fat-content of the diet.

Keller U: Dietary proteins in obesity and in diabetes. Int J Vitam Nutr Res 81:125-133, 2011.

Protein ingestion results in higher ratings of satiety than equicaloric amounts of carbohydrates or fat. Their effect on satiety is mainly due to oxidation of amino acids fed in excess; this effect is higher with ingestion of specific "incomplete" proteins (vegetal) than with animal proteins. Diet-induced thermogenesis is higher for proteins than for other macronutrients. The increase in energy expenditure is caused by protein and urea synthesis and by gluconeogenesis. This effect is higher with animal proteins containing larger amounts of essential amino acids than with vegetable proteins. Specifically, diet-induced thermogenesis increases after protein ingestion by 20 - 30 %, but by only 5 - 10 % after carbohydrates and 0 - 5 % after ingestion of fat.

Nordmann AJ, et al: Effects of low-carbohydrate vs low-fat diets on weight loss and cardiovascular risk factors: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. Arch Intern Med 166:285-293, 2006.

After 6 months, individuals assigned to low-carbohydrate diets had lost more weight than individuals randomized to low-fat diets. Triglyceride and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol values changed more favorably in individuals assigned to low-carbohydrate diets and for high-density lipoprotein cholesterol.

 

[durianrider]

Not to sound rude Elapid but how come Im leaner than you if your high protein diet is so healthy and lean body inducing? Same with my GF. How come she leaned right up once she got off the crazy training volume and animal protein diet?

I did 2 videos about why the high protein high fat low carb gurus are overweight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L10cNeABbA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9OhUwrPob0

Interesting stuff.

My Mum is overweight. She eats high protein diet and thinks carbs make you fat. Then she says Im too thin and need to eat more protein and fat.

face palm.

When will people wake up to the truth??

 

[elapid]

Not to sound rude Elapid but how come Im leaner than you if your high protein diet is so healthy and lean body inducing? Same with my GF. How come she leaned right up once she got off the crazy training volume and animal protein diet?

I did 2 videos about why the high protein high fat low carb gurus are overweight.

My Mum is overweight. She eats high protein diet and thinks carbs make you fat. Then she says Im too thin and need to eat more protein and fat.

When will people wake up to the truth??

There you go again DR. I give you scientific studies and you refute these with four people who you either know or know of. I know you find it hard to understand that the world doesn't revolve around you, but posting your own videos and about four people that you know or know of who are supposedly fat does not trump all the scientific studies showing the positive effects of high protein diets in weight loss, and explaining the reasons why they work. In fact, the opposite is true and it just makes you look more pathetic.

I know fat vegans and I know fat vegetarians. Does that mean that these diets make you fat?

Why don't you post a photo of your Mum? I'll bet that she looks quite normal. Your Mum is right you know - you are bordering on eating disorder-ish skinny. This is not normal. Your GF, before enhancement and veganism, was normal looking.

I think people always known the truth - you're too egotistical to see past your own shortcomings and people will chose what is right for them (like your Mum) and not what some zealot on an internet forum wants them to do.

 

[42x16ss]

Not to sound rude Elapid but how come Im leaner than you ..... Same with my GF.

Once again, I'm going to ask you HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Have you met Elapid in person? Have you seen photos of him? For all you know he has a similar physique to you and is able to refute your claims with first hand experience.

Once again I'll assume that you won't answer this question with anything other than more photos of yourself

As I and others have said before - let your hat size drop a little, pull your head ou of your backside and ENGAGE in discussion and you might get more converts and less of this:

http://30bananasadaysucks.com/

And I'll get in early and say that a lot of the posters there are vegan as well.

 

[durianrider]

Once again, I'm going to ask you HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS? Have you met Elapid in person? Have you seen photos of him? For all you know he has a similar physique to you and is able to refute your claims with first hand experience.

Once again I'll assume that you won't answer this question with anything other than more photos of yourself

As I and others have said before - let your hat size drop a little, pull your head ou of your backside and ENGAGE in discussion and you might get more converts and less of this:

http://30bananasadaysucks.com/

And I'll get in early and say that a lot of the posters there are vegan as well.

1. Elapid aint as lean as me. He didnt refute nothing. I gave him a list of books containing clinically published studies proving heart disease, type 2 diabetes and cancer reversal but he ignored em. The authors are Dr Esselstyn, Dr Neil Barnard and Dr Gerson.

2. That site 30bananasadaysucks, ran by the pro hacker guy (Sean) tried to extort money from us. He is a convicted hacker. Ive had my mac key logged via that site so watch your stuff there. http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/computersecurity/2004-07-05-dunaway-aol-theft_x.htm

'most of the posters are vegan'..lol! Most of the posters there are the same person posing as 5 different posters. I don't take to srsly any crap I read on the net with some weird avitar photo and name. I don't listen to snakes or carrots when it comes to health advice. Nor pro riders with weird gear ratios.

 

[durianrider]

Elapid, you quoted Peter Clifton LOL! The dude critiqued my diet on national TV a few months ago and gave it the thumbs up. He has also came out this year going against the CSIRO diet book he helped publish.

Its good to check your facts before you stand behind em.

Here he is in this vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s250objJpWg

 

[elapid]

Around and around we go. Don't come to this debate with anecdotes, videos created by you, and all your other rubbish. You advise me to check my facts - 1. I do, and 2. At least I have facts rather than "my Mum's fat and my GF's not".

I don't want to look as lean as you because I don't want to look like I have an eating disorder. I'm comfortable in my own skin, you're obviously not because you continuously have to come on here trying to prove something. Whoopy doo, real convincing DR.

I don't give two hoots about your diet. We have been debating whether high protein/low processed carbohydrate diets work for weight loss. They do. Proven. End of story.

We have NOT been discussing you, your diet or anything else revolving around you. Get over it - people really are not that interested in you.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Sorry, vegans: Eating meat and cooking food is how humans got their big brains

"...It would have been biologically implausible for humans to evolve such a large brain on a raw, vegan diet and that meat-eating was a crucial element of human evolution at least a million years before the dawn of humankind...."



Vegetarianism (and, moreso, veganism) is stepping off the evolutionary train. Maybe you don't care but your microcephalic g-g-g-grandchildren will. Or maybe they won't, being as they're microcephalic.

 

[Polyarmour]

Vegetarianism (and, moreso, veganism) is stepping off the evolutionary train. Maybe you don't care but your microcephalic g-g-g-grandchildren will. Or maybe they won't, being as they're microcephalic.

You seem to be confusing the discredited Lamarck's Theory with Natural Selection. Human brains will only reduce in size through successive generations if there is a mutation and a subsequent natural advantage to having a smaller brain over a larger brain. Highly unlikely at this point don't you think? Eating vegetables doesn't make your brain smaller. You seem to have missed the point of the article you quoted. Hmmm.

 

[Tapeworm]

It is a flawed theory. It uses gorillas as an example of herbivore not developing (even though it has been found gorillas can and have eaten meat) and that some of our closer relatives eat plenty of meat (chimps and other similar species). Not to mention all those other species which eat plenty of meat...

If you want evidence of what would hamper brain function in a species speak to someone who is on the Atkins diet or a body builder "cutting" for a comp, near zero carbs, ketogenesis is a poor fuel for the brain.

One theory I read was it was agriculture which allowed the rapid development of the brain - our brains love carbs and the ready supply and time to use this development allowed modern culture to arise. The theory holds some water given the rapid acceleration of technological developmemt in such a exceptional short period of time. Downside was greater disease and degeneration of our physical side. Just another theory.