Look at me, I am a Vegan! Can I persuade you to become one too?

[elapid]

Sorry boss but its what people eat with their refined carbs that is fattening.

Show me the obese person that fuels up on steamed white rice, soda, white bread and jam, white pasta with fat free tomato sauce. Thats the foods weight conscious cyclists fuel up on lol!

Fat you eat is the fat you wear. Find me the obese person that is a low fat high carb vegan longterm. Thats like riding at 5.3w/kg for 20mins using just your hands on the pedals. IMPOSSIBLE!

Seriously go for a holiday to Thailand. Let me know when your in town. I will take you to the villages that literally get majority of their cals from white rice and sugar drinks. They are lean as and NONE of them has a high vo2max. Get any of them on the high fat western diet and they will expand like everyone else.

Read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes. Highly refined carbs are the problem. Low fat diets have not only been shown to be ineffective at reducing obesity, diabetes and cardiac disease, but there is also a three-fold increase in the risk of breast and colon cancer. Diets low in highly refined carbs reduce obesity and diabetes and are not associated with an increased risk of cancer as long as the diet is balanced. Just using the term "fat you eat is the fat you wear" shows how simplistic and naive your views on nutrition actually are.

 

[twothirds]

Has anyone else noticed that Sumo wrestlers get the bulk of their calories from rice?

 

[durianrider]

Read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes. Highly refined carbs are the problem. Low fat diets have not only been shown to be ineffective at reducing obesity, diabetes and cardiac disease, but there is also a three-fold increase in the risk of breast and colon cancer. Diets low in highly refined carbs reduce obesity and diabetes and are not associated with an increased risk of cancer as long as the diet is balanced. Just using the term "fat you eat is the fat you wear" shows how simplistic and naive your views on nutrition actually are.

Gary Taubes giving a presentation on weight loss.

Im sure Gary Taubes is a lovely chap, its just when you are saying you are the worlds best weight loss guru then naturally you leave yourself open to criticism on the internet..

FTR, Ive read all Gary Taubes books. He is a journo vs a nutritional biochemist like Professor Colin Campbell (Author of the China Study). Gary Taubes says 'the reason why professional cyclists/runners are slim is that they are simply born that way. I guess Gary never has heard of Jan Ulrich..

 

[durianrider]

Has anyone else noticed that Sumo wrestlers get the bulk of their calories from rice?

So does the rest of China, Kenya, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Burma, Philippines.

Why are these countries so lean typically then? Well they get most of their cals from rice and other carbohydrates and traditionally eat very low fat and protein diets. Sumo wrestlers get most of their calories from fat and eat LOTS of animal protein to stimulate weight gain. Just like my 400lb neighbour...

Here is a video giving the nutritional breakdown. Count on me for objective data vs subjective anecdotal wu wu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgHSmRWZv14

 

[durianrider]

Gary Taubes having a heart attack on stage? Dr Greger explains the dangers of animal based diets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTvc1_7bs2k

 

[elapid]

@ DR - sorry mate, attacking the messenger doesn't negate the message. Your attempt at providing objective data was laughable. Do you know what objective means? Taubes effectively debunks all the high carbs theories and builds a convincing argument for the role of highly refined carbs in the obesity problem in first world countries. Your n=1's and attacking Taubes for his appearance do nothing for your arguments.

 

[ambrose]

This is annoying me. Weight control is simple. Calories in < Calories out= weight loss. It doesn't matter where they come from. Some foods make it harder, some make it easier. If you stick to the above then it doesn't matter where they come from you loose weight. Ignore voodoo magic, diet books and do what you need to do. Don't make excuses.

Studies=useless. Correlation does not mean causation (statistics SHOULD not be used as proof, sorry Harley).

 

[elapid]

This is annoying me. Weight control is simple. Calories in < Calories out= weight loss. It doesn't matter where they come from. Some foods make it harder, some make it easier. If you stick to the above then it doesn't matter where they come from you loose weight. Ignore voodoo magic, diet books and do what you need to do. Don't make excuses.

Studies=useless. Correlation does not mean causation (statistics SHOULD not be used as proof, sorry Harley).

Unfortunately, it is not as simple as calories in, calories out. The some foods make it harder (carbs) and some make it easier (protein) is true.

Weight loss based on low fat, high carb, calories restricted diets have a success rate at 12 months of less than 5%. This is because high carb diets do not provide satiety and hence it is up to the dieter's free will to essentially starve themselves. Highly refined carbs increase insulin levels and this has all the downstream effects of the body wanting to store fat.

In contrast, weight loss based on high protein, low carb diets do not have to be calorie restricted to achieve weight loss because satiety is good (so there is no battle with self-will) and high protein meals do not increase insulin levels and hence the body does not have a propensity to store foods as fat.

This is really dumbed down, but just want to get the message out there that it is the types of foods that are consumed that are important for weight loss because the basic tenent of calories in should be less than calories out is way too simplistic.

 

[Altitude]

Unfortunately, it is not as simple as calories in, calories out. The some foods make it harder (carbs) and some make it easier (protein) is true.

Weight loss based on low fat, high carb, calories restricted diets have a success rate at 12 months of less than 5%. This is because high carb diets do not provide satiety and hence it is up to the dieter's free will to essentially starve themselves. Highly refined carbs increase insulin levels and this has all the downstream effects of the body wanting to store fat.

In contrast, weight loss based on high protein, low carb diets do not have to be calorie restricted to achieve weight loss because satiety is good (so there is no battle with self-will) and high protein meals do not increase insulin levels and hence the body does not have a propensity to store foods as fat.

This is really dumbed down, but just want to get the message out there that it is the types of foods that are consumed that are important for weight loss because the basic tenent of calories in should be less than calories out is way too simplistic.

Good diet + excercise = weight loss. Since the body does not burn off protein as energy it is generally best to consume the majority of your calories from carbohydrates, no? Bodybuilders and other people who are looking to bulk up consume lots and lots of protein, and are quite successful in their quest to add mass.

From personal experience, eating a diet comprised mostly of fruit for a few weeks, along with regular training/excercise is the most effective way to lose some weight. Of course you can also "starve" yourself, which isn't really such a terrible thing, as most people are predisposed to eat way more than their bodies actually require.

 

[elapid]

Good diet + excercise = weight loss. Since the body does not burn off protein as energy it is generally best to consume the majority of your calories from carbohydrates, no? Bodybuilders and other people who are looking to bulk up consume lots and lots of protein, and are quite successful in their quest to add mass.

From personal experience, eating a diet comprised mostly of fruit for a few weeks, along with regular training/excercise is the most effective way to lose some weight. Of course you can also "starve" yourself, which isn't really such a terrible thing, as most people are predisposed to eat way more than their bodies actually require.

It depends on your aim: weight loss or performance. If the former, a high protein diet in combination with exercise is better. If the latter, a balanced diet with a slightly higher carb load is better. The latter has to be adjusted for hard days and rest/recovery days.

Matt Fitzgerald's book "Racing Weight - How To Get Lean for Peak Performance" is good for weight management for endurance athletes. Protein still plays an important role in an endurance athlete's diet because it is required for recovery and repair.

While DR is critical of Gary Taubes's physical appearance, I found his books ("Why We Get Fat" and "Good Calories, Bad Calories") quite enlightening and answered many questions I had about the obesity epidemic in the face of low fat everything and the failure of so many weight loss programs but the repeated success of so-called fad diets (except these fad diets are all essentially the same: high protein, low carb) that raise their heads under different names every 5 years or so since the late 1880s. If you are tempted to read these books, be forewarned that "Good Calories, Bad Calories" is quite heavy reading.

I have no doubt that the high carb diet works well for DR. But what DR fails to realize or acknowledge is that what works well for him will not necessarily work well for other people. He lives in a world of anecdotal evidence where he is the number one anecdote.

 

[Tapeworm]

..Since the body does not burn off protein as energy...

Actually, it does. Not the preferred energy source but can be used.

Here's the useful wikipedia reference because I am lazy...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenesis

 

[Tapeworm]

http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1637481

 

[simo1733]

Sorry boss but its what people eat with their refined carbs that is fattening.

Show me the obese person that fuels up on steamed white rice, soda, white bread and jam, white pasta with fat free tomato sauce. Thats the foods weight conscious cyclists fuel up on lol!

Fat you eat is the fat you wear. Find me the obese person that is a low fat high carb vegan longterm. Thats like riding at 5.3w/kg for 20mins using just your hands on the pedals. IMPOSSIBLE!

Seriously go for a holiday to Thailand. Let me know when your in town. I will take you to the villages that literally get majority of their cals from white rice and sugar drinks. They are lean as and NONE of them has a high vo2max. Get any of them on the high fat western diet and they will expand like everyone else.

You should go to East Africa.The Masai traditionally eat a diet of Raw meat, raw milk and raw blood.You could tell them that they too fat because of their diet.

 

[Der Effe]

I am a vegetarian, out of fundamental reasons. The only dairy products I use are cheese and eggs, milk and yoghurt I replace with soy replacements. I have been thinking about becoming vegan for a while but it's a slow process, I guess. It's so hard eating outside your own house, being vegan. Stuff like that isn't a good reason to not become 100% vegan, but you have to take it into consideration, as it affects your daily life.

But, so far, it has been the best decision of my life. I live healthier than ever before, don't support the evil meat industry, GMO's, the world food problem and many other nasty side effects apart from animal harm.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I am a vegetarian, out of fundamental reasons. The only dairy products I use are cheese and eggs, milk and yoghurt I replace with soy replacements. I have been thinking about becoming vegan for a while but it's a slow process, I guess. It's so hard eating outside your own house, being vegan. Stuff like that isn't a good reason to not become 100% vegan, but you have to take it into consideration, as it affects your daily life.

But, so far, it has been the best decision of my life. I live healthier than ever before, don't support the evil meat industry, GMO's, the world food problem and many other nasty side effects apart from animal harm.

Soy isn't an option in the US. You're lucky where you live. Soy has been GMO here since 1996, and just last year almost 95% of our soybean crop checked in as GMO. Pretty sick, isn't it.

 

[richwagmn]

Good diet + excercise = weight loss. Since the body does not burn off protein as energy it is generally best to consume the majority of your calories from carbohydrates, no? Bodybuilders and other people who are looking to bulk up consume lots and lots of protein, and are quite successful in their quest to add mass.

From personal experience, eating a diet comprised mostly of fruit for a few weeks, along with regular training/excercise is the most effective way to lose some weight. Of course you can also "starve" yourself, which isn't really such a terrible thing, as most people are predisposed to eat way more than their bodies actually require.

Say what? The body can absolutely burn protein for energy (at least part of it).

http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/excerpts/how-our-bodies-use-protein

 

[richwagmn]

You should go to East Africa.The Masai traditionally eat a diet of Raw meat, raw milk and raw blood.You could tell them that they too fat because of their diet.

People with a heavy confirmation bias ignore all evidence to the contrary and engage in ad hominem attacks when faced with evidence that doesn't fit their bias.

Sort of applies to the OP doesn't it?

 

[Der Effe]

Soy isn't an option in the US. You're lucky where you live. Soy has been GMO here since 1996, and just last year almost 95% of our soybean crop checked in as GMO. Pretty sick, isn't it.

Yeah, I know all about it. I am indeed a lucky man on this subject. Let's hope proposition 37 will pass in California. It would be a great start for the US and the people to have a right to know what they're eating. Ofcourse Monsanto (probably the most evil company in the world?), DuPont, Bayer, PepsiCo, Nestle, Coca Cola etc. are throwing in millions to make sure the prop won't pass .

Ps. In the US, the brand 'Silk' is non GMO soy milk.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Yeah, I know all about it. I am indeed a lucky man on this subject. Let's hope proposition 37 will pass in California. It would be a great start for the US and the people to have a right to know what they're eating. Ofcourse Monsanto (probably the most evil company in the world?), DuPont, Bayer, PepsiCo, Nestle, Coca Cola etc. are throwing in millions to make sure the prop won't pass .

Ps. In the US, the brand 'Silk' is non GMO soy milk.

Agree with you about Monsanto, they're all about profits first and foremost, the result is making people sick. They also have their hands in big pharma, so when you get sick from GMO foods you have to rely on the drugs, which they profit from as well, to stay alive.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you about replacing dairy with soy. Over the last several years researchers have come to find a component of soy that increases estrogen levels in the body which leads to high probability of cancer in both women and men. Basically one cup of a soy based food creates an amount of estrogen in the body that should only be generated over the course of a week or more. Soy is ok in small amounts, not replacing an entire dietary bloc though. Grain and nut based milks are a much healthier substitute for dairy than soy, like hemp or almond. I press almond milk at home weekly.

 

[Der Effe]

Agree with you about Monsanto, they're all about profits first and foremost, the result is making people sick. They also have their hands in big pharma, so when you get sick from GMO foods you have to rely on the drugs, which they profit from as well, to stay alive.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you about replacing dairy with soy. Over the last several years researchers have come to find a component of soy that increases estrogen levels in the body which leads to high probability of cancer in both women and men. Basically one cup of a soy based food creates an amount of estrogen in the body that should only be generated over the course of a week or more. Soy is ok in small amounts, not replacing an entire dietary bloc though. Grain and nut based milks are a much healthier substitute for dairy than soy, like hemp or almond. I press almond milk at home weekly.

Can you give me a link to that research? I mean, if what you are saying is true I would happily switch over to almond milk and such.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Can you give me a link to that research? I mean, if what you are saying is true I would happily switch over to almond milk and such.

My GF is an aspiring nutritionist in the realm of women, but takes good care of me as well... One article of many you can find doing your own investigations on the internet:

http://www.foodrenegade.com/dangers-of-soy/

 

[Polyarmour]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you about replacing dairy with soy. Over the last several years researchers have come to find a component of soy that increases estrogen levels in the body which leads to high probability of cancer in both women and men. Basically one cup of a soy based food creates an amount of estrogen in the body that should only be generated over the course of a week or more. Soy is ok in small amounts, not replacing an entire dietary bloc though. Grain and nut based milks are a much healthier substitute for dairy than soy, like hemp or almond. I press almond milk at home weekly.

I've looked into the soy issue a couple of times now and I don't believe this estrogen argument. Soy has phyto-estrogens which are chemicals that look like real estrogen. A few doctors and nutritionists have picked up on this and said soy should be avoided because phyto-estrogens are going to give you man boobs etc. However they made these comments without performing any clinical trials. In 2010 there was a large study made into soy. The results were no change in male sperm count, no change in prostate cancer risk, no change in testosterone or estrogen... no man boobs. So while soy has these chemicals in them that resemble estrogen compounds... they don't do much once inside the body. Soy is one of the most complete plant food proteins and not easy to replace so I would say don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I do make sure my soy is organic and non GMO though. Agree with you on that one.

Ref: Hamilton-Reeves, Jill M.; Vazquez, Gabriela; Duval, Sue J.; Phipps, William R.; Kurzer, Mindy S.; Messina, Mark J. (2010). "Clinical studies show no effects of soy protein or isoflavones on reproductive hormones in men: Results of a meta-analysis". Fertility and Sterility

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I've looked into the soy issue a couple of times now and I don't believe this estrogen argument. Soy has phyto-estrogens which are chemicals that look like real estrogen. A few doctors and nutritionists have picked up on this and said soy should be avoided because phyto-estrogens are going to give you man boobs etc. However they made these comments without performing any clinical trials. In 2010 there was a large study made into soy. The results were no change in male sperm count, no change in prostate cancer risk, no change in testosterone or estrogen... no man boobs. So while soy has these chemicals in them that resemble estrogen compounds... they don't do much once inside the body. Soy is one of the most complete plant food proteins and not easy to replace so I would say don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I do make sure my soy is organic and non GMO though. Agree with you on that one.

Ref: Hamilton-Reeves, Jill M.; Vazquez, Gabriela; Duval, Sue J.; Phipps, William R.; Kurzer, Mindy S.; Messina, Mark J. (2010). "Clinical studies show no effects of soy protein or isoflavones on reproductive hormones in men: Results of a meta-analysis". Fertility and Sterility

Nowhere in the study does it state how much soy product is consumed by the test group. Not only that, but the study was done at St. Catherine University in St. Paul, where I'm from. A religious based college reporting on science? Skeptical eye has returned. Not implying that this study was more of the Monsanto and soybean industry sponsored studies, not at all.., but you don't really know. Even if it was legit, I highly doubt that the study was conducted in a way to duplicate what happens when an person stops meat and dairy to replace with mostly soy based foods over a span of a few years. No matter if your soy is GMO or not, replacing dairy and meat protein with ALL soy is NOT good. The man boobs thing isn't myth it's real, but in most people this phenomenon manifests itself into what's called "tofu belly". This happens with vegetarians and vegans that haven't figured out a balanced diet because they're usually consuming 30 times more soy than the average person to compensate for the missing proteins. The result is effectively an overdose of these plant derived estrogens from soy.

My GF has had thyroid issues, every medicine man and nutritionist from West to East schooling has told her to lay off the soy product, not totally eliminate, but cut way down, did nothing but help. Something to chew on...

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

What a ****** this LA-worshiping clown is.

http://30bananasadaysucks.com/2012/10/harley-johnstone-plagiarises-denise-minger/

 

[Dear Wiggo]

My GF has had thyroid issues, every medicine man and nutritionist from West to East schooling has told her to lay off the soy product, not totally eliminate, but cut way down, did nothing but help. Something to chew on...

Seriously? Have a friend in a similar situation but she's lactose intolerant also and so uses soy for milk. Do you have any data or studies to back up this advice?