Male Cyclist of the year (2014)?

[Tonton]

There's a difference between the value of the race you won and being the best cyclist. Due to the luck of some crashes Nibali won the better race. There was nothing Contador could do about that. That doesn't make Nibali the better cyclist.

When judging the best cyclist one shouldn't just ignore what actually happened then look up the results on wikipedia and decide who would be happiest with their season.

The actual performances also matter. Contador on the Tirreno stage was one of the best performances in the history of the sport. He had a number of performances throughout the year where he took on the top gt riders on stages and beat them in very impressive fashion.

That also matters. And clearly the people who decide the award agree with me as they gave it to Contador over Nibali.

Isn't there a say about luck being the product of preparation and seizing the opportunity (Seneca)? Nibali was prepared, seized the opportunity. Dawg could have used Wiggo's help on the cobbles. Contador didn't prepare. If all on this forum knew it was going to be a trick stage, why didn't he? There was no luck, just carelessness. The same Bertie victim of a bordure that Lance saw coming. Lance was smart, I give him that. Actual performances.

 

[Jspear]

Well, he did great over 3 most important weeks of the season. Also, he wasnt careless at any point of it, plus his weak form at the beginning had probably something to do with being a father. Anyway, when it counts he showed up. Won his national championships, got himself huge advantage over first half of the Tour, didn't make any mistakes over entire race, quadrupled that advantage over 2nd part of the Tour.

I think that definetely warrants calling him best rider of the year, as opposed to someone who showed good form in preparation races, fell behind by well over 2 minutes in his target race, screwed up remainder of the major race of the season (from what I heard there was noone else involved in the crash so its all on him), and then came back to win a consolation race (lets face it, the likes of Horner target the Vuelta, not the most accomplished riders).

It doesn't warrant calling him the best cyclist of the year. Read the original post. This thread was to discuss who was the best over the course of the year and Nibali fails in that. Period. Did he win the biggest race of the year? Yes. But that is not what this thread is about.

The bolded: let's face it. The Tour is the race that brings in the most money and is the most popular among the lay persons. But, there has been plenty of years where the Vuelta has been way more epic of a race. The most accomplished riders don't target the Vuelta?? AC isn't an accomplished rider. What about Merckx or Hinault or even Nibali. Did you forget that he has targeted the Vuelta??

 

[damian13ster]

Ok, didn't target the Vuelta this season......I thought this topic is about this season.....
I think it does warrant calling him best cyclist of the year for the lack of other candidates. Contador's palmares arent very impressive, some preparation races (well, just 2) and Vuelta. Valverde had great overall year, but really no huge wins. Gerrans had couple good wins but failed to win World Championships (I think in that case my vote would go to him).


So yeah, for me National Championship + TdF win trumps all of Contador's wins this season.

 

[Tonton]

It doesn't warrant calling him the best cyclist of the year. Read the original post. This thread was to discuss who was the best over the course of the year and Nibali fails in that. Period. Did he win the biggest race of the year? Yes. But that is not what this thread is about.

The bolded: let's face it. The Tour is the race that brings in the most money and is the most popular among the lay persons. But, there has been plenty of years where the Vuelta has been way more epic of a race. The most accomplished riders don't target the Vuelta?? AC isn't an accomplished rider. What about Merckx or Hinault or even Nibali. Did you forget that he has targeted the Vuelta??

Here you go again with the "read the post" rant: if it was about from MSR to Lombardia, the point chasers, Piti wins it out right. He won the WT. That was the prize. What you seem not to get is that there was NO dominant rider this year, so it's open to interpretation. No one is (really) wrong here. Except the Gerrans, Martin, Kwiatkowski votes It's one of these years. No one mentioned the Gorilla, he won more than anybody. Bouhani won multiple stages in two GTs. Not sexy enough. So it's up to what you or I think, no clear winner. We will disagree, there's no need to be belligerent.

 

[Tonton]

When I got my first bike, I learned that the most important thing was to stay on the bike, not fall. And when I started racing, I learned that if you want to win, you first have to finish.

 

[cineteq]

Due to the luck of some crashes Nibali won the better race. There was nothing Contador could do about that. That doesn't make Nibali the better cyclist.

Where have you been? Don't you know by now that one makes his own luck? For these people 'lack of preparation' = 'bad luck'. I always remind this sort posters to watch stage 5... then all I hear afterwards is silence and crickets.

The actual performances also matter. Contador on the Tirreno stage was one of the best performances in the history of the sport. He had a number of performances throughout the year where he took on the top gt riders on stages and beat them in very impressive fashion.

If performance matters then Nibali's TdF was unmatched this year. You said it. On the other hand, I wouldn't say of Nibali's performance something as ridiculous as one of the best performances in the history of the sport.

 

[Jspear]

Here you go again with the "read the post" rant: if it was about from MSR to Lombardia, the point chasers, Piti wins it out right. He won the WT. That was the prize. What you seem not to get is that there was NO dominant rider this year, so it's open to interpretation. No one is (really) wrong here. Except the Gerrans, Martin, Kwiatkowski votes It's one of these years. No one mentioned the Gorilla, he won more than anybody. Bouhani won multiple stages in two GTs. Not sexy enough. So it's up to what you or I think, no clear winner. We will disagree, there's no need to be belligerent.

I'm not being belligerent. I'm disagreeing in a pretty civil manner. I recognize that there are going to be different interpretations as far as who should be recognized. You are right there wasn't one hugely dominate rider. There were several who might be considered. My last post was simply my reasoning for why I don't think Nibali should be considered for this specific thread. You don't have to call me belligerent just because I disagree with you.

 

[El Pistolero]

I'm pretty sure Nibali has crashed more on descents than Contador. The Giro and Il Lombardia come to mind.

Nibali beat Peraud, that doesn't qualify him as the greatest cyclist this season. Thevenet once said "Tell me who was second to you and I will tell you the value of your victory."

Can Peraud even win a HC race?

And Tirreno-Adriatico and Pais Vasco are hardly "just" preparation races. 95% of the peloton would love to be able to achieve a win as big as that. He should've also won the Dauphiné...

 

[Netserk]

I'm pretty sure Nibali has crashed more on descents than Contador. The Giro and Il Lombardia come to mind.

Nibali beat Peraud, that doesn't qualify him as the greatest cyclist this season. Thevenet once said "Tell me who was second to you and I will tell you the value of your victory."

Can Peraud even win a HC race?

And Tirreno-Adriatico and Pais Vasco are hardly "just" preparation races. 95% of the peloton would love to be able to achieve a win as big as that. He should've also won the Dauphiné...

Did this year.

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=25804

BTW nice to see you back.

 

[Netserk]

Actually, he could not make a stupid mistake by not having both hands on the steering wheel when descending....
Being able of riding smart and not to take dumb, unnecessary risks is also a part of being a cyclist.

Can you name a single cyclist who always has both hands on when descending? Someone who never eats while descending?

 

[hegemon]

[...As we are all weighting on the merits of each rider, some go UCI WT way with Valverde, and I disagree: it would be like picking Zoetemelk as the TdF cyclist of the 70's because he got most podiums than the rest..].

You disagree with yourself. If a UCI/WT-like points system was used to weigh placings and determine the best TdF cyclist of the 70s it would still be Merckx, because he had as many podiums as Joop, but Merckx's were mostly wins.

You see, using objective tabulation of a pre-established point system, we have to call Valverde the rider of the year. The Velo d'Or, however, is NOT objective, which is why we have it AND the WT (which Valverde already won).

 

[hegemon]

Let me spell it out for you,

Best. of. 2014.

Its not about only winning the biggest race
Its not about being the most consistent high place finisher
Its not about July
Its not about the one rainy cobbles crash festival
It's about being the best rider of the whole year

What part of that don't you understand

I don't understand the part where YOU decide that YOUR criteria for rider of the year are the only only ones that matter, and those that disagree must be spoken to in a condescending tone.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Isn't there a say about luck being the product of preparation and seizing the opportunity (Seneca)? Nibali was prepared, seized the opportunity. Dawg could have used Wiggo's help on the cobbles. Contador didn't prepare. If all on this forum knew it was going to be a trick stage, why didn't he? There was no luck, just carelessness. The same Bertie victim of a bordure that Lance saw coming. Lance was smart, I give him that. Actual performances.

Yeah, Contador didn't prepare, that's why he did a recon with De Jongh earlier in the year and again the day before the race.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/raci...or-hits-cobbles-prepare-tour-de-france-120324

I remember senile Phil Ligget said something similar about Contador and Armstrong in 2010.....

 

[LaFlorecita]

On the other hand, I wouldn't say of Nibali's performance something as ridiculous as one of the best performances in the history of the sport.

Lol because it wasn't. Haha

 

[LaFlorecita]

Ok, didn't target the Vuelta this season......I thought this topic is about this season.....
I think it does warrant calling him best cyclist of the year for the lack of other candidates. Contador's palmares arent very impressive, some preparation races (well, just 2) and Vuelta. Valverde had great overall year, but really no huge wins. Gerrans had couple good wins but failed to win World Championships (I think in that case my vote would go to him).


So yeah, for me National Championship + TdF win trumps all of Contador's wins this season.

Did you actually watch any race besides the Tour this year?

I think the fact cycling journos from all over the world disagree with you says a lot.

 

[damian13ster]

Yes, watched plenty (not as much as I would have liked, but saw most of Tirreno-Adriatico, Pais Vasco and Dauphine if those are the races you are reffering too. Of course, Contador was entertaining, but that was still lesser competition, and against serious one (Froome) he was barely hanging on. So if we are looking for strongest rider, its Froome, if we are looking for one with the best palmares, its Nibali, if we are looking for best WT rider, its Valverde.
There is no merit for denying any of those facts, because evidence is obvoius (unless you believe everyone at Vuelta was 100% prepared and was targeting that race of course)

and yeah, most recent win is always fresh in memory + it was nice story to sell, injury, comeback against doctors opinion, win in Vuelta, etc. Journalists' job is to sell the story, not to be objective

 

[Netserk]

Contador beat better competition in Paìs Vasco and Tirenno than Nibali did in the Tour...

Contador won the Vuelta despite the fact that he broke his leg 40 days before the start. A much bigger handicap than a broken wrist or fatigue from riding the Tour.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't understand the part where YOU decide that YOUR criteria for rider of the year are the only only ones that matter, and those that disagree must be spoken to in a condescending tone.

I did not decide the criteria, its kind of in the name of the thread

 

[LaFlorecita]

Contador beat better competition in Paìs Vasco and Tirenno than Nibali did in the Tour...

Contador won the Vuelta despite the fact that he broke his leg 40 days before the start. A much bigger handicap than a broken wrist or fatigue from riding the Tour.

Lol unbelievable, Alberto is the one who beat lesser competition according to damian13ster? What the hell?

 

[Mellow Velo]

The actual performances also matter. Contador on the Tirreno stage was one of the best performances in the history of the sport. He had a number of performances throughout the year where he took on the top gt riders on stages and beat them in very impressive fashion.

Still giving out your exaggerated opinion as facts?

With limited access, you have no idea where Contador's stage performance sits in the history of the sport.
Imo it was the second best IP of the year.

Why not just post what most folks would and say; "It was one of the best performances I have ever seen" ?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Contador beat better competition in Paìs Vasco and Tirenno than Nibali did in the Tour...

Contador won the Vuelta despite the fact that he broke his leg 40 days before the start. A much bigger handicap than a broken wrist or fatigue from riding the Tour.

Without Ag2R losing a bundle in the TA TTT, Peraud would have ended 2nd in GC.....

The competition looked good on paper in TA, but it turned out to be average.
Porte dropping out, Quintana sick etc.

The strongest lineup in the prep stage races was Catalunya where J-Rod beat Contador.

Final GC:
1 RODRÍGUEZ JoaquimTeam Katusha 10025029:41:34
2 CONTADOR AlbertoTinkoff-Saxo801900:04
3 VAN GARDEREN TejayBMC Racing Team701600:07
4 BARDET RomainAG2R La Mondiale601400:10
5 QUINTANA NairoMovistar Team50120,,
6 FROOME ChristopherTeam Sky401100:17
7 TALANSKY AndrewGarmin Sharp301000:18
8 POZZOVIVO DomenicoAG2R La Mondiale20900:26
9 BARGUIL WarrenTeam Giant-Shimano10800:42
10 KISERLOVSKI RobertTrek Factory Racing 4700:48

But lets face it, only a few GC riders actually peak for these prep races, very unlike the situation in many of the big classics.

Which brings us back the the point that nobody really rose above the field this year imo.

Contador looked good in some prep stage races and won the weakest GT. Not a factor in the classics. Hmm not convincing.

Valverde with no big win, but performs at a high level in both classics and GTs over the entire seasons. I like the completeness, but just not good enough.

Nibali performed very convincing in the biggest race of the season, but went MIA everywhere else. July fans will love it, but this sort of narrow ultra peak is not inspiring and his overall season needs discounting imo.

Kristoff, Gerrans and Kwia etc just missing a 2nd big win.

It would have been better with a random generator to determine the best rider this season. Not because some riders didn't perform well, but because nobody didn't really stood out at the top.

Unless you are a fan of Contador or July of cause, lol.

 

[Miburo]

So basically only GT's and monuments matter are relevant?

All the otherst are just prep races and have no value at all. Good to know, especially knowing piti didn't win any of the above lol

 

[Mellow Velo]

So basically only GT's and monuments matter are relevant?

All the otherst are just prep races and have no value at all. Good to know, especially knowing piti didn't win any of the above lol

I don't think anybody is saying that, just that it is difficult to figure out who is racing to win in stage races that are early stepping stones towards the Tour.
Hence, it is difficult to quantify them.
In the case of Nibali, for instance, he would normally be considered a main protagonist; a serious opponent.
However, it was quite obvious from his performances, that he didn't approah pre-Tour stage races at anywhere near full on.
Whereas with Contador and Froome, what you see is what you get.

It is to be generally accepted that all the main protagonists in GTs and the classic one day races are just that.

 

[Akuryo]

So basically only GT's and monuments matter are relevant?

All the otherst are just prep races and have no value at all. Good to know, especially knowing piti didn't win any of the above lol

Well, they matter, but not as much. Simple as that. Or would you rate Valverdes win at Roma Maxima as equal to Kwiatkowskis WCRR-title?!
Same goes for Kwiatkowskis win in Algarve. It is not nearly as important as Contadors victories against him in Tirreno or Pais Vasco ...

 

[Netserk]

Without Ag2R losing a bundle in the TA TTT, Peraud would have ended 2nd in GC.....

The competition looked good on paper in TA, but it turned out to be average.
Porte dropping out, Quintana sick etc.

The strongest lineup in the prep stage races was Catalunya where J-Rod beat Contador.

Final GC:
1 RODRÍGUEZ JoaquimTeam Katusha 10025029:41:34
2 CONTADOR AlbertoTinkoff-Saxo801900:04
3 VAN GARDEREN TejayBMC Racing Team701600:07
4 BARDET RomainAG2R La Mondiale601400:10
5 QUINTANA NairoMovistar Team50120,,
6 FROOME ChristopherTeam Sky401100:17
7 TALANSKY AndrewGarmin Sharp301000:18
8 POZZOVIVO DomenicoAG2R La Mondiale20900:26
9 BARGUIL WarrenTeam Giant-Shimano10800:42
10 KISERLOVSKI RobertTrek Factory Racing 4700:48

But lets face it, only a few GC riders actually peak for these prep races, very unlike the situation in many of the big classics.

Which brings us back the the point that nobody really rose above the field this year imo.

Contador looked good in some prep stage races and won the weakest GT. Not a factor in the classics. Hmm not convincing.

Valverde with no big win, but performs at a high level in both classics and GTs over the entire seasons. I like the completeness, but just not good enough.

Nibali performed very convincing in the biggest race of the season, but went MIA everywhere else. July fans will love it, but this sort of narrow ultra peak is not inspiring and his overall season needs discounting imo.

Kristoff, Gerrans and Kwia etc just missing a 2nd big win.

It would have been better with a random generator to determine the best rider this season. Not because some riders didn't perform well, but because nobody didn't really stood out at the top.

Unless you are a fan of Contador or July of cause, lol.

Dauphiné is a prep race (sometimes), the others not so much...

Source for Quintana's illness in Tirenno?

Peraud and Quintana as the 2nd and 3rd strongest are better than Peraud and Pinot as 2nd and 3rd strongest. I hope you'll agree with that.