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Teams & Riders Mark Cavendish Discussion Thread

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Then why does no modern sprinter even have a single year like Cavendish in his prime. Even at the Tour de France alone.

His peak, dominance in sprinting, and longevity in the disciplni have been unreal. Most sprinters are only on top of the world for a few years.
If you want to compare a him against just modern sprinters, then go right ahead, but then you cannot just claim he is the undoubted GOAT when if he raced in a different era, there is huge doubt about that. As I said, if he raced in the 80s, his career would have been more akin to Van Poppel.

I would also argue winning World Championship, Milan-SanRemo, Gent Wevelgem, 6 Giro stages and 3 Vuelta stages in the same year would rival any of Cavs best seasons.
 
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If you want to compare a him against just modern sprinters, then go right ahead, but then you cannot just claim he is the undoubted GOAT when if he raced in a different era, there is huge doubt about that. As I said, if he raced in the 80s, his career would have been more akin to Van Poppel.
Or his career could have been different and he’s a classic rider, not specifically focusing on his sprint.
 
I tide in and out of liking Cav. He is sometimes funny, he certainly is fast...but I have always enjoyed watching his losses more than his wins. Particularly that one Wout took from him. One of the best cycling trolls ever. Still, I think the Tour will be hard for him. He doesn't have the speed he had (if I eat my words, good on him then).
 
Or his career could have been different and he’s a classic rider, not specifically focusing on his sprint.
I think you would need to provide some actual evidence to show he could have been a classics contender as I see precious little to make such a case. Just compare to someone like Philipsen, already showing to be more than just a sprinter. There are way too many one trick sprinters in the modern era of cycling who get way too many opportunities to rack up the wins.
 
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I think you would need to provide some actual evidence to show he could have been a classics contender as I see precious little to make such a case. Just compare to someone like Philipsen, already showing to be more than just a sprinter. There are way too many one trick sprinters in the modern era of cycling who get way too many opportunities to rack up the wins.
Won Sanremo and WC didn't he.

Where did Philipsen go in Sanremo?
 
I think you would need to provide some actual evidence to show he could have been a classics contender as I see precious little to make such a case. Just compare to someone like Philipsen, already showing to be more than just a sprinter. There are way too many one trick sprinters in the modern era of cycling who get way too many opportunities to rack up the wins.
He has won plenty of hard races when the group gets shattered and he maintained contact. Plus like @Red Rick mentioned previously, he is underrated riding in crappy weather. Crosswinds, attacks in the group with him attacking as well, crappy weather, coming back on the descent. Cav has won in all those ways. But I get it, you’ve been hating on Cav for years so it’s hard to see clearly. Sprinters do have that opportunity but none have had the longevity or success.
 
gee, tough crowd to please much. I think he has been an overwhelmingly positive force for British Cycling for 15 years, that alone before considering his palmares which I doubt another rider will match in the future places him in an elite category of cyclist, the sport will be a poorer place without him.

I just hope he finds the peace in his retirement, that very driven athletes whose lives have been dominated by a sport, often struggle to achieve
 
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Won Sanremo and WC didn't he.

Where did Philipsen go in Sanremo?
Winning a WC in which 80 riders finish in the same time as the winner does not make one a classics rider.

Likewise, being able to compete in one specific classics race, does not make someone a great classics rider. Philipsen is still young so we will see, bit if MSR was always raced like this year, Cavendish would not have any wins either.
 
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He has won plenty of hard races when the group gets shattered and he maintained contact. Plus like @Red Rick mentioned previously, he is underrated riding in crappy weather. Crosswinds, attacks in the group with him attacking as well, crappy weather, coming back on the descent. Cav has won in all those ways. But I get it, you’ve been hating on Cav for years so it’s hard to see clearly. Sprinters do have that opportunity but none have had the longevity or success.
So why was he nowhere when he raced Paris-Roubaix/Tour of Flanders? Why is it his best placings in a race like Ghent Wevelgem are barely top 20, a race which several sprinters have won. If Cavendish had the skills as you claim, why is it he does not have better results in those races? I don't hate Cavendish, I just think his talent level is totally overhyped and if he had raced in the pre sprint train era, he would not have been anywhere near as successful. His success(and indeed most modern sprinters) is built more on a type of racing/teamwork than individual talent. If you don't get the chances, you can't win and it is not the sprinters who create the opportunities to win.
 
End of an era, for sure, I just had another read of this article from last year which covers his TDF stage wins. Some memorable ones in there, the other day when a few echelons started I was reminded of that stage in 2013 when echelons formed and he had to do a full on mid-stage sprint to make the front echelon, winning from a group of ten at the end.

As for the value of sprinters in cycling, well, I totally get people preferring something like the Granon stage to a flat stage with a bunch sprint at the end (although so far this Giro is doing a good job of reminding me that not all mountain stages work out well either). But I personally enjoy the different skillsets that coexist in the peloton, and I certainly think that fighting for the right wheels and making split second decisions at high speed at the end of a 200km stage is an admirable skillset. Not everyone has the nerve for that, and after a few years and a few bad crashes some (understandably) lose a bit of their cutting edge. So I think his longevity alone is incredible.

I wish him well in his retirement.
 
So why was he nowhere when he raced Paris-Roubaix/Tour of Flanders? Why is it his best placings in a race like Ghent Wevelgem are barely top 20, a race which several sprinters have won. If Cavendish had the skills as you claim, why is it he does not have better results in those races? I don't hate Cavendish, I just think his talent level is totally overhyped and if he had raced in the pre sprint train era, he would not have been anywhere near as successful. His success(and indeed most modern sprinters) is built more on a type of racing/teamwork than individual talent. If you don't get the chances, you can't win and it is not the sprinters who create the opportunities to win.
Cav has never set out with those races as his main objective like other riders, so isn’t in peak shape. Cav’s main objective was always winning in Grand Tours. Nor was he the leader or protected rider on top of every team bar Astana having another rider or multiple to be leader. It would be like Contador taking part and expecting leadership. Other times he was sick or injured during the spring so had poor prep or couldn’t take part. just because GW was for sprinters in the past, doesn’t mean it always ended in a sprint in the editions he took part in. The other times he was sick or injured. The best years for him to try was the first time at Quickstep but they had a plethora of leaders and his role was at MSR and the GTs. He’s shown he can take part in hard GT and week stages while contesting smaller classics. With more of a focus on his classic ability versus sprinting, there’s no reason not to think he could have been successful in the 80s. Remember, I’m not saying that he’ll be dominate or have as many wins as he does currently.
 
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