Mathieu Van der Poel

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I think of course great performances don't mean someone is doped. An average or weak performance doesn't mean the person's not doped. But whenever someone showed extreme accomplishments in sport, in 95% of the cases it turned out they were doped. When it didn't turn out that way it was often a case of "everyone knows, but it cannot be proven" (like Florence Griffith-Joyner). So, these total physical outliers - they just don't exist, in my opinion.

The question is, when can a performance be considered "extreme"? It's a bit like plastic surgery: there are cases in which you don't see it, cases gone wrong, cases where you think "could be/ could be natural", but then there's a 60year old looking like a super-hot 25year old with super-tight breasts and lips and you just know: Okay, good genes and care and all, but this is just over the top.
General thought.
About van der Poel, I find him highly suspicious, but I'm not 100% convinced.
 
Mod hat on:

Could we remove the personal commentary about other users please. Ascribing particular positions to people is highly likely to lead to arguments and off-topic discussions so let's nip it in the bud.

Cheers,

KB.
 
I think of course great performances don't mean someone is doped. An average or weak performance doesn't mean the person's not doped. But whenever someone showed extreme accomplishments in sport, in 95% of the cases it turned out they were doped. When it didn't turn out that way it was often a case of "everyone knows, but it cannot be proven" (like Florence Griffith-Joyner). So, these total physical outliers - they just don't exist, in my opinion.

The question is, when can a performance be considered "extreme"? It's a bit like plastic surgery: there are cases in which you don't see it, cases gone wrong, cases where you think "could be/ could be natural", but then there's a 60year old looking like a super-hot 25year old with super-tight breasts and lips and you just know: Okay, good genes and care and all, but this is just over the top.
General thought.
About van der Poel, I find him highly suspicious, but I'm not 100% convinced.
I think something to consider is that the top racers, as a group in the world tour, are already outliers. It only takes a fraction of a percent, for one to beat another. so when you see massive outlier performances, and a group of people that are already outliers, it raises eyebrows. And again, that can happen ... what gets even crazier is when it happens over and over again.
 

SaulGoodman

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Mar 15, 2021
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MvDP and WvA, absolutely destroying the competition since they were little kids. Can't say for sure ofcourse, but I don't think they're on doping.
I find it more difficult to believe the performances of Pogacar. Where everyone saw REV coming, nobody saw TP coming. And that's a bit fishy. Also the Gianetti connection.

But innocent until proven guilty, so I really enjoy all of these incredible riders.
 
Reactions: Cookster15

TMJ

Jul 18, 2015
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We can tie ourselves in knots watching the sport with this in the back of our heads.

I say: 'Just enjoy the show.'

Let's be realistic. What the teams and cyclists get away with is part and parcel of the sport as much as training; nutrition; sports science; teamwork; course knowledge; racing knowhow etc...etc....

Remember that in the past people were jumping in the back of trucks or riding trains to cheat and today those tales are retold with a big smile and twinkle in the eye.
 
We can tie ourselves in knots watching the sport with this in the back of our heads.

I say: 'Just enjoy the show.'

Let's be realistic. What the teams and cyclists get away with is part and parcel of the sport as much as training; nutrition; sports science; teamwork; course knowledge; racing knowhow etc...etc....

Remember that in the past people were jumping in the back of trucks or riding trains to cheat and today those tales are retold with a big smile and twinkle in the eye.
I generally agree but I think we should be should be careful in simply wanting to "enjoy the show". This attitude can open a can of doping worms and a medical arms race. It is the attitude that gave us the 90s EPO era.
 
I generally agree but I think we should be should be careful in simply wanting to "enjoy the show". This attitude can open a can of doping worms and a medical arms race. It is the attitude that gave us the 90s EPO era.
Cookster, with all due respect, that can of worms were opened so long ago that the worms have long since been gobbled up.
I'm now beginning to think your's is a joke account. It took a while, which is why I'm not the brightest log on the yuletide fire.
 
Cookster, with all due respect, that can of worms were opened so long ago that the worms have long since been gobbled up.
I'm now beginning to think your's is a joke account. It took a while, which is why I'm not the brightest log on the yuletide fire.
With all due respect I would not care if this can of worms was opened 50 years ago. Again this is accepted norms. I don't care about accepted norms. I care for a reasonably fair sport. I am not interested in WWF wrestling on wheels - leave that to the professional clowns like Hulk Hogan. But if we give up that is what would eventuate. Professional sport might never be clean but we can always strive to make it as safe and clean as possible. That is what the UCI passport was about, steroids tests etc.
 
exactly! that's why seeing MVDP going ballistic....doping is a likely possibility...

the idea of 'fair sport' is a noble one....... alas truth is cycling is far from fair....with differences
in budgets/opportunities/genetics

for me doping will always remain an interesting topic of discussion just to learn exactly what teams get up to.....i'm sure this is far beyond what observers would expect.....look at
MVDP stuffing gels down when on the attack at TR....long after he must have taken on enough
energy more gels disappeared......

Mark L
 
Feb 27, 2021
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I am not 100 percent sure whether Mvdp is doping or not. But it is great to watch and him having some weakness still is great. By the by his father excuse when he was caught doping was right up there.
 
exactly! that's why seeing MVDP going ballistic....doping is a likely possibility...

the idea of 'fair sport' is a noble one....... alas truth is cycling is far from fair....with differences
in budgets/opportunities/genetics

for me doping will always remain an interesting topic of discussion just to learn exactly what teams get up to.....i'm sure this is far beyond what observers would expect.....look at
MVDP stuffing gels down when on the attack at TR....long after he must have taken on enough
energy more gels disappeared......

Mark L
Thanks for bringing up the gel consumption as well. I can't remember the exact races, but he took on gels 3 km's before the finish on at least two occasions where he won the race.. I have no idea what that means, but it's not often you see riders gelling up so close to the finish.
 
Strange this thread went quiet when MVdP was beaten by Kasper Asgreen. New thread for Asgreen?
he was still the second strongest guy on the day, thats hardly absolving him of anything other than dip in his seemingly everlasting fitness peak

you are not as naive as to think just the winner is doping and beating all the honest, pain y agua guys

just wait untill you hear about rather unimpressive TT by pogacar in basque country, uhmm just when i was about to be 100% sure about him he convinced me by not performing
 
he was still the second strongest guy on the day, thats hardly absolving him of anything other than dip in his seemingly everlasting fitness peak

you are not as naive as to think just the winner is doping and beating all the honest, pain y agua guys

just wait untill you hear about rather unimpressive TT by pogacar in basque country, uhmm just when i was about to be 100% sure about him he convinced me by not performing
Of course. But the thread went quiet. That is my point. If I hadn't posted the thread would still be quiet. Judging by today's result you were premature on marking down Pogacar's form., you also seem to not aware of the concept of peaking for major races.
 
Strange this thread went quiet when MVdP was beaten by Kasper Asgreen. New thread for Asgreen?
You have an interesting point. Asgreen's win got me to thinking that maybe the sport is clean after all. I mean, if this Asgreen guy can beat MVDP, anyone can!
Few people are aware of Asgreen's prowess, so he's gotta be clean, right? I mean, that's what we assume.
I vote against starting an Asgreen thread. It's way too early to ask questions.
 

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