Media assault on Team Sky

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Mar 17, 2009
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Don't be late Pedro said:
If they are both legal is there really? People that earn more should certainly pay more but I don't like this whole moral/immoral argument about paying taxes that seems to be doing the rounds in the UK. Most loop holes are there for big business and the UK Government know these and still let them slide. Picking on the odd celeb is a drop in the ocean compared to these companies.
If you read look at how they work this system, it is abundantly clear that it is a tax avoidance scheme. The problem is that it is using a perfectly legal method devised to help investment in farming in a fictitious manner. While it is not illegal it is immoral and wrong. Avoidance accounts for 14% of the shortfall in tax revenue. I pay all of my burden, why the hell can't he?

While BBCSPOTY is a frivolous "award" I did vote for Cav last year. Wiggins won't be getting my vote this year.
 
Aug 27, 2012
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DominicDecoco said:
If it's legal,... I would do same and so would you..
Well actually no, too simple. If you were to understand 'the law' a little, it's never black and white, it's almost always open to interpretation, and the 'clever' guys push the interpretation to (and beyond) the limit. A bit like Lance's "never positive" argument. "If you can't catch me I am within the law".

See the issue more clearly now? It's not role model behavior. It's cheating. Maybe not legally, but certainly morally. And maybe not if you or I were to do it, but for Brad after his tour win as cycling's numero uno, most certainly.

And by the way, I certainly wouldn't. Just not interested, independently wealthy (non-monetary wealth :p) . So talk for yourself please.
 
Aug 13, 2010
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ultimobici said:
If you read look at how they work this system, it is abundantly clear that it is a tax avoidance scheme. The problem is that it is using a perfectly legal method devised to help investment in farming in a fictitious manner. While it is not illegal it is immoral and wrong.
While I don't agree with it (I have always avoided similar schemes) I think if you start down the 'it's immoral' road you are opening a can of worms. Clearly one persons morals are different to another's so how do you reconcile that?
 
Jan 18, 2010
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The thing is Wiggins never or rarely races in Britain so I dont blame him not wanting to pay as much tax.

The real issue is the major corporations here paying next to zero tax by finding loopholes.
 
Aug 13, 2010
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Tinman said:
It's not role model behavior. It's cheating. Maybe not legally, but certainly morally. And maybe not if you or I were to do it, but for Brad after his tour win as cycling's numero uno, most certainly.
This is exactly what I mean. Why is it ok for us to do it but not Wiggins. That makes no sense to me.
 

Fidolix

BANNED
Jan 16, 2012
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If it´s legal I say go for it!
With an income tax of 48% I would have absolutely no moral scruples finding the loop holes my self, as long it´s legal.
 
Jan 18, 2010
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I dont care who wins Spotty, Cav won last time so maybe time for Andy Murray - Olympic and US Open champ.

Or maybe the horse Frankel.
 
Tinman said:
The challenge that governments have with this type of legislation enactment is that the really wealthy (read billionaires) have loop hole advisors and legal teams way bigger than what government has at their disposal. So most governments do not pursue, as cases are very costly, return on the up front investment is poor and even if a case is won, it will take years to get there. So millionaires and celebs a better bet. Makes sense. And rely on media to paint a bad picture of them as a deterrent to others...
I think this has more to do with political will than cost of legal procedures. The problem all over the EU is that one country can make dodging by another countries citizens easier. If the politicians really got together, they could end this.

Take Greece as an example. My guess is rich Greeks who have been avoiding tax in Greece are moving their money elsewhere now that the tax man has to tax them. My guess is that many of them have sent their money to the UK to hide it.

The EU seems to have an implicit system of allowing one country to hide the other countries tax avoiders. If nothing is done, the countries with the least public services and least taxes will set the EU standard that everyone will have to follow if they want to avoid bankruptcy.
 
Mar 17, 2009
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Don't be late Pedro said:
While I don't agree with it (I have always avoided similar schemes) I think if you start down the 'it's immoral' road you are opening a can of worms. Clearly one persons morals are different to another's so how do you reconcile that?
If he doesn't like paying UK taxes, I'd suggest he moves to Monaco and hands his passport in at the airport.

His burden should be in the region of £2.4m, leaving him with over £2.5 to live on.

Anyhow, if HMRC close the loophole he may regret taking this path when the tax demand lands on his doormat!
 
Aug 5, 2012
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sublimit said:
I dont care who wins Spotty, Cav won last time so maybe time for Andy Murray - Olympic and US Open champ.

Or maybe the horse Frankel.
Those dancing horses from the dressage should win
 
Aug 27, 2012
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Don't be late Pedro said:
This is exactly what I mean. Why is it ok for us to do it but not Wiggins. That makes no sense to me.
Well, it was you who said it's ok, not me. I don't do this kind of stuff. But then again I'm independently wealthy (of the non-material kind) :p
 
Aug 27, 2012
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zalacain said:
Yep, same s**t, different day.

If Bradley were truly interested in "advancement of health and saving of lives" he would not be smoking, EVER. And he would be donating to existing very good and competent programs. And/or become a patron of those organizations, instead of indirectly competing with them.
 
Tinman said:
Yep, same s**t, different day.

If Bradley were truly interested in "advancement of health and saving of lives" he would not be smoking, EVER. And he would be donating to existing very good and competent programs. And/or become a patron of those organizations, instead of indirectly competing with them.
Yep. I'm very sceptical about "charity" in "anglo-saxon" nations. They seem more often than not geared towards image management and tax planning, if not outright means of wealth generation and protection from uncomfortable questions.

AFAIK Norwegian athletes donate or become figures for existing charities. The only one I can remember is Johan Olav Koss, and he lives in Canada.
 
Aug 18, 2009
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In Wiggins' defence it would be good if the structure of the sport provided a bit more security for riders, so that they didn't feel compelled to engage in such scheming to give them an income after cycling.
 
Aug 27, 2012
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taiwan said:
In Wiggins' defence it would be good if the structure of the sport provided a bit more security for riders, so that they didn't feel compelled to engage in such scheming to give them an income after cycling.
Eh? Come again? The first TdF winner for Britain? And someone needs to give him post cycling income security?

He could start being a real role model. Talk to journo's and fans nicely. Be open and truthful. Be aware of what image he portrays. Indeed take on some roles on Not for Profits. Etc etc. And eventually finding himself on company boards, etc, etc. The post cycling income will come quickly.

Society needs true role models, not fraudulent a**eholes (like Lance). It's not rocket science for Brad, but he's following the wrong yellow brick road.

Checkin' out, tomorrow an important day...
 
Don Quixote said:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2220787/Bradley-Wiggins-accused-signing-abusive-Cayman-Islands-tax-avoidance-scheme-Bill-Roache.html?ITO=1490

Thought this deserved a new thread, because I imagine this will be just the start - and you can bung all the clippings here.

It should tell DB that the non-Murdoch press have been sniffing Team Sky.

Let's hope he's been sniffing harder, because any foul smells will be spread far and wide now.

Skygate? I hope not.

You know what's bigger in England than doping and cycling?

Tax dodging. its been the big story of the last week. Wiggins is in fact treated lightly as he patriotically won the tour for gb and not a politician.

To say this is evidence of the media which fawn over sky launching an assault? Lol.
 
May 25, 2010
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The Hitch said:
You know what's bigger in England than doping and cycling?

Tax dodging. its been the big story of the last week. Wiggins is in fact treated lightly as he patriotically won the tour for gb and not a politician.

To say this is evidence of the media which fawn over sky launching an assault? Lol.
What you said! It's a political hot potato at the moment, and even if you think Wiggins is clean, this is not good. He was trained and achieved his success partly through Lottery funding, he should pay his bloody taxes, simple. Very disappointed in him.
 
Sep 2, 2012
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The Hitch said:
You know what's bigger in England than doping and cycling?

Tax dodging. its been the big story of the last week. Wiggins is in fact treated lightly as he patriotically won the tour for gb and not a politician.

To say this is evidence of the media which fawn over sky launching an assault? Lol.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/20/doping-team-sky-cyclin?newsfeed=true

"Doping expert wants Team Sky's drug stance put under the microscope"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2220801/Team-Sky-braced-departures.html#ixzz29wGQt2kz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

"Team Sky and Brailsford braced for departures as employee denies doping past"

Lol
 
Jan 18, 2010
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Don Quixote said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/20/doping-team-sky-cyclin?newsfeed=true

"Doping expert wants Team Sky's drug stance put under the microscope"

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2220801/Team-Sky-braced-departures.html#ixzz29wGQt2kz
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

"Team Sky and Brailsford braced for departures as employee denies doping past"

Lol
Follow the Daily Mail on Twitter and Facebook... yeah right.

I'd rather sink my head into a bucket of cold water.
 
I like this thread being here because the other thread is hundreds of pages of discussion on minute details which might indicate doping. Having to browse past all that to find discussion relating to skys omerta policy, and how the media follows up is problematic.

Benotti posted this in the other thread:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/20/doping-team-sky-cyclin

Doping expert wants Team Sky's drug stance put under the microscope
Ashenden said Sky's efforts to underline their no-doping policy by making all team members sign a declaration that they have never been involved in doping was to be welcomed, but should be scrutinised more carefully.

"There are questions that need to be asked," he said. "They [Sky] have zero tolerance for doping. Great. But what constitutes doping according to them? Is it an anti-doping rule violation? Is it grounds for suspicion? Or are they merely relying on what the athlete tells them?

"Take Sean Yates as an example, who is pertinent because of his prominent links to Armstrong and photos of him arm in arm with 'Motoman' [Armstrong's alleged drugs mule] floating around on the internet. Let me be clear that I don't know if he's doped in the past or not. But if he tells Sky that he hasn't, is that the end of the matter, or do Sky intend to actively investigate what [team leader David] Brailsford calls reputational risks and act on what they find if there are grounds to suspect someone has been associated with doping? It's a really important issue because unless they can qualify their position, their statement isn't worth the paper it's written on. If they intend only to act when a cyclist is sanctioned, they're being disingenuous to their fans."

Ashenden has good points. Hopefully Brailsford will answer his questions. If not I hope the UK media keep asking untill he does answer.
 
taiwan said:
In Wiggins' defence it would be good if the structure of the sport provided a bit more security for riders, so that they didn't feel compelled to engage in such scheming to give them an income after cycling.
Pension? National health service? Student loans? I don't know how things are organized in sky relating to this, but I think the french teams pay a lot of tax, or their riders do for these things. I don't see why the UCI should take over the role of national governments.
 
If Dave B hired someone that he knew was dirty would he have to sack himself?

As performance director of BC he must have known plenty.

Sounds like his days are numbered.
 

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