Men Elite Road Race - UCI RWC Doha 2016

[Billie]

Yes Sagan and Terpstra

 

[PunchingRouleur]

Re:

Arnaud Demare told FFC.fr:

“We saw the echelons, we were in the wind, and when it was two minutes, it was all over. It is a total disappointment, we knew what to expect and we were trapped. We were many to miss out. Once it was decided in the wind, it was impossible to come back. The physical qualities made a difference for a rider like Sagan who rode thirty to forty meters in the wind to return to the first group. Physically, I had the means to do well, but maybe I was a little too patient to make the jump. We were trapped.

 

[doperhopper]

Re:

Help me, is this Sagan starting to sprint to bridge into the first echelon? Watch the video here

https://youtu.be/ZeXEPOKKFps?t=2520

I do not have access to a HD version of the video and you can see it only for few seconds, but it does look his style.

Nope, I think nobody managed to bridge once that dutch guy gave up and caused the split (and nobody replaced him). Looks like Sagan realized what's coming when Belgians and British went upfront already before that critical turn into the crosswind... and marshalled his two teammates to the front.

 

[Billie]

Re: Re:

Help me, is this Sagan starting to sprint to bridge into the first echelon? Watch the video here

https://youtu.be/ZeXEPOKKFps?t=2520

I do not have access to a HD version of the video and you can see it only for few seconds, but it does look his style.

Nope, I think nobody managed to bridge once that dutch guy gave up and caused the split (and nobody replaced him). Looks like Sagan realized what's coming when Belgians and British went upfront already before that critical turn into the crosswind... and marshalled his two teammates to the front.

you're wrong. The guy next to Sagan is Terpstra. Orange kit with white Spec helmet and clearly he has Terpstra's style with his head in between his shoulders. Those two got back with help from De Kort and Groenewegen. De kort said so himself in an interview

 

[Billie]

Btw if you want to see a rider bridging form echelon to echelon you should see where Erviti is when the pack first splits. Incredible that he somehow made it into the 2nd group


http://i.imgur.com/4AFEe6a.png

 

[Gigs_98]

Re:

Help me, is this Sagan starting to sprint to bridge into the first echelon? Watch the video here

https://youtu.be/ZeXEPOKKFps?t=2520

I do not have access to a HD version of the video and you can see it only for few seconds, but it does look his style.

Definitely Sagan. He wears the Slovakian jersey and was the only Slovakian with a black helmet.

 

[KGB]

Yep that is Sagan.But he was with Dutch riders even more back.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Help me, is this Sagan starting to sprint to bridge into the first echelon? Watch the video here

https://youtu.be/ZeXEPOKKFps?t=2520

I do not have access to a HD version of the video and you can see it only for few seconds, but it does look his style.

Definitely Sagan. He wears the Slovakian jersey and was the only Slovakian with a black helmet.

Certainly looks like Sagan going there while the dutch are trying to reach the first echelon with Terpstra and Groenewegen. According to Terpstra he was the last to connect to the first echelon and Groenewegen also nearly made it, but came just short.

 

[veji11]

Re: Re:

Arnaud Demare told FFC.fr:

“We saw the echelons, we were in the wind, and when it was two minutes, it was all over. It is a total disappointment, we knew what to expect and we were trapped. We were many to miss out. Once it was decided in the wind, it was impossible to come back. The physical qualities made a difference for a rider like Sagan who rode thirty to forty meters in the wind to return to the first group. Physically, I had the means to do well, but maybe I was a little too patient to make the jump. We were trapped.

Démare's positioning was disgraceful. Bonnet was his personal bodyguard and he made a big effort at 39:47 in the youtube video to go all the way up the belgians before the right hand turn. If Démare follows his wheel, he has a chance to be WC... But he wasn't there...

Bouhanni stayed with Laporte and they almost made it with Greipel right behind the dutch but just were fried trying to do so..

Really the french leaders were a disgrace on this race.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Argentina (although opportunities for an exciting parcours are limited, though there is a short but steep hill around Mar del Plata somewhere)

why only consider the BA area? have it by the Andes, Mendoza, Salta, Tucuman and you have all the makings for a legendary and beautiful parcours. But i hear Races are being dropped, not pushed in Argentina, these days

I was just thinking about where the UCI would go, and that means the big cities on the Pampas and the coast are most likely. Although the Argentinian l'Étape type ride was around Bariloche, and I've drawn a few courses around there on the Race Design Thread (also a bumpy ride around Ushuaia...), so that could work as well.

Definitely there are places that would be better than the BA area and nearby, I just expected they would be most likely to host.

 

[Flamin]

What a sprint by Sagan. Twice world champion, last time in a row was Bettini right?

And never in my wildest dreams did I think Leezer would lead a world championship until 500m to go :lol: it was surreal. I wonder if Belgian didn't take up the mantle who would. Seemed they would've come too late.

I'm not sure why Belgium had so much faith in Boonen's sprint. They were the strongest team and I think they should've done things differently on the final circuit to make it harder for Sagan, Cavendish etc.. now I feel they just led them out. Boonen is still fast after a long race, but against these guys he'll only win 3/10 nowadays. A big gamble

Against Sagan and Cav, who spent the enitre day in the wheels? 30%? I'd take he over/under from that group on about 2%

Let's reverse roles. Sagan is in the wind from 200m to go and Boonen can come round Nizzolo in the final 100m. Boonen is favourite to win then. 2%, that's just silly, you know a lot more about cycling than that.

He'd be very highly dependent on both Cav and Sagan messing up their sprints. Both are riders with a pedigree of positioning themselves well. In fact, Cav did mess it up, and he still beat Boonen. If he didn't mess up, he'd do it with his eyes closed. I'm actually surprised Boonen got 3rd, and I think it's the maximum he could've hoped for.

The last time Boonen won a sprint in a big race was more than 4 years ago. GW 2012 IIRC. Cav and Sagan had barely done any work. That's not a hard race that favours Boonen at all.

He 'still' beat Boonen? Boonen also rode a far from perfect sprint so that's hardly a strong argument. Of course you need luck as well. Sagan did have loads of it, remember? Without luck, he would have been 5th or so. Boonen imo had the legs to win if he had the luck Sagan had.

He won a sprint after 200k against Bouhanni and Demare recently. Not Cav-Sagan level, but not too shabby either. And it was a hard race. An hour of racing full in the wind, the heat,...

 

[Bardamu]

What a sprint by Sagan. Twice world champion, last time in a row was Bettini right?

And never in my wildest dreams did I think Leezer would lead a world championship until 500m to go :lol: it was surreal. I wonder if Belgian didn't take up the mantle who would. Seemed they would've come too late.

I'm not sure why Belgium had so much faith in Boonen's sprint. They were the strongest team and I think they should've done things differently on the final circuit to make it harder for Sagan, Cavendish etc.. now I feel they just led them out. Boonen is still fast after a long race, but against these guys he'll only win 3/10 nowadays. A big gamble

Against Sagan and Cav, who spent the enitre day in the wheels? 30%? I'd take he over/under from that group on about 2%

Let's reverse roles. Sagan is in the wind from 200m to go and Boonen can come round Nizzolo in the final 100m. Boonen is favourite to win then. 2%, that's just silly, you know a lot more about cycling than that.

He'd be very highly dependent on both Cav and Sagan messing up their sprints. Both are riders with a pedigree of positioning themselves well. In fact, Cav did mess it up, and he still beat Boonen. If he didn't mess up, he'd do it with his eyes closed. I'm actually surprised Boonen got 3rd, and I think it's the maximum he could've hoped for.

The last time Boonen won a sprint in a big race was more than 4 years ago. GW 2012 IIRC. Cav and Sagan had barely done any work. That's not a hard race that favours Boonen at all.

He 'still' beat Boonen? Boonen also rode a far from perfect sprint so that's hardly a strong argument. Of course you need luck as well. Sagan did have loads of it, remember? Without luck, he would have been 5th or so. Boonen imo had the legs to win if he had the luck Sagan had.

He won a sprint after 200k against Bouhanni and Demare recently. Not Cav-Sagan level, but not too shabby either. And it was a hard race. An hour of racing full in the wind, the heat,...

Still, only the biggest optimist in the world could honestly think he was the favourite against these other sprinters. The Belgians messed up by destroying all of their riders till the last km. When the second group gave up, they could have played a bit with Greg, Naesen or others.
Appreciate the Belgians took though, they took responsibility in the desert.

 

[mr61%]

Re: Re:

Help me, is this Sagan starting to sprint to bridge into the first echelon? Watch the video here

https://youtu.be/ZeXEPOKKFps?t=2520

I do not have access to a HD version of the video and you can see it only for few seconds, but it does look his style.

Definitely Sagan. He wears the Slovakian jersey and was the only Slovakian with a black helmet.

Agreed. About two hundred metres further on at the next right hander you can clearly see him rounding the corner having just made it on to the back of the first echelon.

 

[Flamin]

Surely not the favourite, but a decent enough chance. Unfortunately there were just too many teams in the first group that fancied a sprint. It was super difficult for an attacker to do something, which is also what Terpstra and GVA acknowledged. I doubt Naesen, despite being very strong, was going to change much after the work he had to do when the 2nd group was still chasing. More countries that wanted to avoid a sprint were needed.

 

[Andy262]

Sagan says in his interview on the main CN site that he was the last man over. Fair play to him.

 

[Keram]

Re: Re:

Yes , I do agree with you that Peter is still manchild, but.. with great and good hearth. What is it to hate?
So you hate optimistic person with good hearth cos he is exhibitionist one. Good for you :/

I cannot speak for LS but yes good for me, then. Certainly if I don't believe a word of what is said above.

Well. It was quite obvious Sagan was being domestic to his brother at Slovakia national road race. Sagan in one moment bring back his brother to leaders group. Instead of meaningles (for him) another Slovakia´s NT champ jersey he gave his brother chance for his most important career win. At Tour it is difficult to tell if he would let Bodnar win that stage but I was really worried at the and he that he is let it to Bodnar. But Froome start sprinting so we will never know. Michael Kollar told slovak newspapers that Sagan asked him if he want to sprint at the and and he will be his lead out man. Maybe he was not meaning it though. But he ha good heart imo.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yea, and Contador could say that he would have gifted Matteo Tosatto the win on Mont Ventoux if they'd only done a Saunier Duval and Contador hadn't been injured. The problem with things like that is that they're purely anecdotal and have little relevance because the chances of Sagan having to honour those commitments is practically zero. The only one of those that I put any stock in is Juraj's national championship. Of course Froome was going to sprint, there were time bonuses at the line, and Sagan would rightly be chewed out if Tinkoff failed to win that stage from a two on one and with by far the best sprinter in the trio; anybody who honestly believes a guy whose best sprint placement this year is 4th in stages of the Tour de Langkawi was going to stand a chance in the World Championships bunch gallop to the extent Sagan would lead him out doesn't think gullible appears in the dictionary.

 

[hfer07]

What's up with Boonen being so disappointed? He should be happy to be able to podium at this point on his career, well knowing his sprinting skills aren't what they used to be so-even Cav and his renaissance was not enough to stop Sagan...

 

[kingjr]

Re:

Yea, and Contador could say that he would have gifted Matteo Tosatto the win on Mont Ventoux if they'd only done a Saunier Duval and Contador hadn't been injured. The problem with things like that is that they're purely anecdotal and have little relevance because the chances of Sagan having to honour those commitments is practically zero. The only one of those that I put any stock in is Juraj's national championship. Of course Froome was going to sprint, there were time bonuses at the line, and Sagan would rightly be chewed out if Tinkoff failed to win that stage from a two on one and with by far the best sprinter in the trio; anybody who honestly believes a guy whose best sprint placement this year is 4th in stages of the Tour de Langkawi was going to stand a chance in the World Championships bunch gallop to the extent Sagan would lead him out doesn't think gullible appears in the dictionary.

Do you think if Kolar had said "yes, please" Sagan would not have done it?

 

[May0maniac]

What's up with Boonen being so disappointed? He should be happy to be able to podium at this point on his career, well knowing his sprinting skills aren't what they used to be so-even Cav and his renaissance was not enough to stop Sagan...

Because he's a winner, one of the best riders of his generation and not someone who just races for podium spots.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Do you think if Kolar had said "yes, please" Sagan would not have done it?

Truthfully? I absolutely believe he wouldn't have. If he had, I would also absolutely believe he shouldn't have, either.

 

[KGB]

Nah,Sagan's plan was to be lead out man for his brother but shame he was not in this group so he just finished them off.
Boonen was fantastic.Great race by him.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

Do you think if Kolar had said "yes, please" Sagan would not have done it?

1.)Truthfully? I absolutely believe he wouldn't have.

2.)If he had, I would also absolutely believe he shouldn't have, either.

To 1.) Why not?

To 2.) What would it say about Sagan's personality in your view if he had done it?

 

[Brullnux]

What's up with Boonen being so disappointed? He should be happy to be able to podium at this point on his career, well knowing his sprinting skills aren't what they used to be so-even Cav and his renaissance was not enough to stop Sagan...

Probably regretting waiting for the sprint, and he must've felt that these worlds were really well suited to him, what with him winning all those desert races and all. He had a real chance of winning, his last one.

Besides, picture Boonen soloing into the Roubaix velodrome for the fifth time wearing the rainbow stripes.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Do you think if Kolar had said "yes, please" Sagan would not have done it?

1.)Truthfully? I absolutely believe he wouldn't have.

2.)If he had, I would also absolutely believe he shouldn't have, either.

To 1.) Why not?

To 2.) What would it say about Sagan's personality in your view if he had done it?

1) People lap up these stories because they want to believe Sagan is a great guy, and he's happy to feed it because it keeps people paying attention to him. Leading out Michal Kolar to make an anonymous top 10 won't get him on MTV Cribs. It's easy to make a promise, but come the final kilometre of a World Championships race, if he doesn't realise he's the better option he's a complete idiot. I think Sagan is many things, but I'm not convinced that's one of them. People want to believe Sagan is nigh on flawless, and have grown very defensive about him to the point where any contrary opinion is hounded like a rogue Froome fan being set on in the Clinic.

2) arguably irrelevant, because I don't think he would have done it. Besides, Mark Cavendish was a rock and an absolute star for Jonny Bellis, doesn't stop him being a total tool the rest of the time. Also, it makes no odds because he didn't do it, regardless of whether Kolar would have wanted him to or not.

Come on guys, like Red Rick said, if you're not going to accept the answers there's no need for more questions. I've done my best to avoid the guy this year to try and stop getting into all this again. After the flare-up in the Sagan thread in March - my first incursion into the thread coming, like I say, long after people were mocking me in it - I decided, right, no more Sagan, all it does is keep getting me angry, as race threads devolve into page upon page of sycophantic "how can you not love Sagan?" "omg Sagan beast" "what a guy!" drivel as he makes his moves, while shouting down any contrary opinions regardless of their purpose, and the more he smoulders, pouts and mugs for the camera in a way that makes Thomas Voeckler look like David Moncoutié while the press fawn all over him as he posts another stupid video just in case you forgot about him, the more difficult I find it to keep a lid on it. And the thing is, because unlike other such characters in the recent past, he's incredibly versatile so he's hard to avoid (unlike, say, Cav, who only does his thing in a certain type of stage) so it's not like you can say "just stay out of (x) or (y) thread" - I've been staying away from the threads specifically about him since then deliberately. I know sometimes I'm spoiling for a rumble because when things aren't going well in real life for me I get a bit too invested, but that's why I've been trying to step away and not get into these arguments. Others I know are not Sagan fans aren't even bothering anymore, but I'm too dumb not to rise to it sometimes.