Michael Barry

[RobbieCanuck]

Talk to hard hitting reporters and don't hide...Paul Kimmage wanted to interview Barry to no avail. What does that tell you?

Michael Barry appears to have deceived a lot of people. He also did not "come out" until the USADA Reasoned Decision was released in the fall of 2012. He presumably fessed up because he had no choice after the release of the RD, which is pretty sad. Back in 2010 he also denied his own doping when all the rumours were coming to a head.

But he does seem genuinely contrite. I watched his confession interview with CBC TV which is at http://www.cbc.ca/.../Adrienne+Arsenault/.../2289549131/?... He did issue a statement apologizing to those he deceived.

And because he was in the thick of things he was not surprised about LA's being caught.

I guess the questions is - At what point do we forgive the dopers who confessed? What does it take to earn redemption for a major life mistake? Does he remain in cycling purgatory forever?

 

[Scott SoCal]

Michael Barry appears to have deceived a lot of people. He also did not "come out" until the USADA Reasoned Decision was released in the fall of 2012. He presumably fessed up because he had no choice after the release of the RD, which is pretty sad. Back in 2010 he also denied his own doping when all the rumours were coming to a head.

But he does seem genuinely contrite. I watched his confession interview with CBC TV which is at http://www.cbc.ca/.../Adrienne+Arsenault/.../2289549131/?... He did issue a statement apologizing to those he deceived.

And because he was in the thick of things he was not surprised about LA's being caught.

I guess the questions is - At what point do we forgive the dopers who confessed? What does it take to earn redemption for a major life mistake? Does he remain in cycling purgatory forever?

Depends on if he/they tell the whole truth.

Hamilton is on his way back. I think once the qui tam case is over you will see Floyd re-emerge. There's Millar, Basso and others...

 

[Catwhoorg]

Look at the date on his affadavit. (8th October 2012)

He caved at (almost) the last possible moment to be part of the RD, no doubt under pressure, of the USADA saying what they had on him, and making him an offer of join, or face tougher consequences.

 

[fmk_RoI]

But he does seem genuinely contrite.

Based on what evidence?

I guess the questions is - At what point do we forgive the dopers who confessed? What does it take to earn redemption for a major life mistake? Does he remain in cycling purgatory forever?

You forgive when forgiveness has been earned. Read Barry's book tho and you won't find a man earning forgiveness, you'll find a man saying the system made him ride dirty but that when he was able to ride clean he rode cleaner than anybody else. He's not putting his hand up and accepting any guilt, he barely talks about his doping, ignores the lies - especially the ones he and his wife told about Landis - and just points the finger at others. Cause it's always someone else's fault.

 

[Neworld]

Based on what evidence?



You forgive when forgiveness has been earned. Read Barry's book tho and you won't find a man earning forgiveness, you'll find a man saying the system made him ride dirty but that when he was able to ride clean he rode cleaner than anybody else. He's not putting his hand up and accepting any guilt, he barely talks about his doping, ignores the lies - especially the ones he and his wife told about Landis - and just points the finger at others. Cause it's always someone else's fault.

Very reasonable response...and some people automatically forget the past and allow him back into the fold? MB is not the person we want young minds and athletic prowess to listen to...not for a long time.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Based on what evidence?

His interview at this link http://www.cbc.ca/.../Adrienne+Arsen..../2289549131/?...

 

[D-Queued]

Michael Barry appears to have deceived a lot of people. He also did not "come out" until the USADA Reasoned Decision was released in the fall of 2012. He presumably fessed up because he had no choice after the release of the RD, which is pretty sad. Back in 2010 he also denied his own doping when all the rumours were coming to a head.

But he does seem genuinely contrite. I watched his confession interview with CBC TV which is at http://www.cbc.ca/.../Adrienne+Arsenault/.../2289549131/?... He did issue a statement apologizing to those he deceived.

And because he was in the thick of things he was not surprised about LA's being caught.

I guess the questions is - At what point do we forgive the dopers who confessed? What does it take to earn redemption for a major life mistake? Does he remain in cycling purgatory forever?

Yes, he seems contrite.

Yes, he seemed like an upstanding guy.

But, this is why so many people approached him and his Dad about USPS/Disco/Astana.

If Michael was such an upstanding guy, why wasn't he the one to expose the dark tales? No, we had to wait for Floyd. And, for the Tyler twins to reveal all.

Like so many others, he left Frankie and Betsy in purgatory.

Unlike Frankie, he didn't decide to stop doping.

Unlike Betsy, Dede chose to lie and conceal. Unlike Betsy, she didn't tell her husband to knock it off.

These are not the heroes we wish they were. This is truly unfortunate.

Clara could be as white as the driven snow, but Michael was clearly promoting a long-standing deception AND Clara was a top performer and an insider.

As Betsy notes above, who didn't know that Lance was doping? Who didn't know other USPS/Disco riders were doping.

Heck, I knew that Ryder was doping almost a decade ago - and I hardly knew him.

NOBODY that was involved in the sport can credibly suggest that they were surprised that anyone on that team was doping. That is an outright lie.

Please recall that "He confessed that the US Postal team and he were using an extensive amount of performance-enhancing drugs." Thus, he wasn't like Frankie, and not even like Jonathan. He admitted that he doped extensively.

It may be the only lie that Clara has ever spoken, but it is really hard to believe it to be anything else.

Dave.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

D-Queued

Clara could be as white as the driven snow, but Michael was clearly promoting a long-standing deception AND Clara was a top performer and an insider.

Clara can hardly be called an insider. Barry doped from May 2003 to July 2006, while on the USPS team and while people had suspicions there was no hard core proof Barry was doping during this time because of (a) omerta and (b) Barry's self acknowledged purposeful deception of his friends.

Clara left competitive cycling after 2002 and concentrated on speed-skating from 2002 to 2010 competing in the 2006 and 2010 Olympics in this sport. She rode her bike for cross training. Given she did not live in TO I find it doubtful she and Barry crossed paths much given they were involved in separate sports, one based in Europe and the other in Calgary, the USA and the Netherlands during the off season for pro cyclists. And even if they did he confesses he lied to her.

She was less an insider than say Betsy Andreu was through Frankie and others she knew in the sport who were close to LA.

As Betsy notes above, who didn't know that Lance was doping? Who didn't know other USPS/Disco riders were doping.

If Betsy had such certain knowledge she was clearly more of an insider than Clara.

Heck, I knew that Ryder was doping almost a decade ago - and I hardly knew him.

Well you must be clairvoyant because hardly anyone knew Ryder was doping. I did not realize you have such omniscient powers of the divine!!!

NOBODY that was involved in the sport can credibly suggest that they were surprised that anyone on that team was doping. That is an outright lie.... It may be the only lie that Clara has ever spoken, but it is really hard to believe it to be anything else.

I suggest you reconsider the implication of your statement that Clara was lying. Perhaps you should contact her and tell that to her face as opposed to hiding out anonymously on this forum. It is you anonymous posters too frightened to tell us who they really are that seem to have the biggest and most reckless mouths!

 

[fmk_RoI]

His interview at this link http://www.cbc.ca/.../Adrienne+Arsen..../2289549131/?...

One interview? That's it? And you don't take anything else into account? Seriously? For real?

Colour me amazed.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Judging contrition on the basis of one interview - offering redemption on the basis of one interview - is one of the areas where so many fans go wrong, and why this sport gets what it deserves.

For a lot of people, their problems with David Millar were the speed with which the media granted him redemption, the way they by-passed Purdah. Millar, though, has actually earned redemption, years on (after slips along the way), by repeated words and repeated deeds.

Barry? For me, Barry is small fry. He wouldn't matter but for the profile his writing has earned him. For me his crime isn't doping. His crime is writing two books in which he pretended there was no doping, one of those books being about a team and during a time when doping was the primary conversation topic. His crime isn't so much denying his doping when he was outted by Landis, but the manner in which he denied it. For those two crimes, someone like Barry is going to have to do a lot more than one interview in order to earn forgiveness, redemption, demonstrate contrition. And, frankly, when you write a book like he's just written, in which you avoid talking about the choices you made - to dope and deny - and instead serve up pages and pages justifying what you did (the system made me do it) you're clearly showing you're not contrite. You're not even trying to earn redemption.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

For a lot of people, their problems with David Millar were the speed with which the media granted him redemption, the way they by-passed Purdah. Millar, though, has actually earned redemption, years on (after slips along the way), by repeated words and repeated deeds.

I respectfully disagree.

David Millar, in a 2011 interview:

Millar saw from close up how Contador dominated the recent Giro d’Italia. For Millar, Contador’s consistency is a sign of his unique talent.

"Alberto Contador is untouchable as rider, he is a physical freak and we in the peloton have known that for a long time and respect his supreme talent. I would be very surprised if he didn't end up as the greatest Grand Tour rider in the history of the sport. It’s a tragedy that he has got mixed up in this Clenbuterol thing but I am keeping an open mind on his case,” Millar told the Telegraph.

"Does anybody out there seriously doubt that Contador was riding clean in the Giro d'Italia that has just finished? You don't win the biggest races in the world with such clockwork regularity and comparative ease, and in such style, by not being the supreme talent and clean. In my experience the profile of a doper is always much more erratic and unpredictable.”

"The rest of us mere mortals have "magic days" when every so often when we can take on the world. Contador's default setting is a "Magic day". His only departure from the norm is when he experiences merely an average day. They are the only two levels he rides at. My strong instinct is to trust that."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/millar-calls-for-closure-in-armstrong-and-contador-investigations

 

[D-Queued]

Clara can hardly be called an insider. Barry doped from May 2003 to July 2006, while on the USPS team and while people had suspicions there was no hard core proof Barry was doping during this time because of (a) omerta and (b) Barry's self acknowledged purposeful deception of his friends.

Clara left competitive cycling after 2002 and concentrated on speed-skating from 2002 to 2010 competing in the 2006 and 2010 Olympics in this sport. She rode her bike for cross training. Given she did not live in TO I find it doubtful she and Barry crossed paths much given they were involved in separate sports, one based in Europe and the other in Calgary, the USA and the Netherlands during the off season for pro cyclists. And even if they did he confesses he lied to her.

She was less an insider than say Betsy Andreu was through Frankie and others she knew in the sport who were close to LA.



If Betsy had such certain knowledge she was clearly more of an insider than Clara.



Well you must be clairvoyant because hardly anyone knew Ryder was doping. I did not realize you have such omniscient powers of the divine!!!



I suggest you reconsider the implication of your statement that Clara was lying. Perhaps you should contact her and tell that to her face as opposed to hiding out anonymously on this forum. It is you anonymous posters too frightened to tell us who they really are that seem to have the biggest and most reckless mouths!

Sorry, but now you have crossed the line with me.

I don't know if you are naive, or if you are really trying to hide all of this under the carpet.

Not only was I aware that Ryder was doping, it was actively discussed in my circles.

HOWEVER, the story is better than that.

There was a VERY concerted effort to out Ryder and have him banned / removed from the sport.

A certain Canadian team tried to recruit Ryder. When he declined (and went to Phonak), that team - comprised of 'many upstanding members of the Canadian cycling community' - approached a number of individuals to try and out Ryder.

I still have the email trail. And, I do know others that received similar communications.

I did not report it at the time for a number of reasons. Aside from it being circumstantial in nature and non-analytical (WADA rules have recently changed and would be more accepting of this information), it was also clearly self-incriminating on the part of the team that supplied the information.

In other words, if they knew Ryder was doping and were still trying to sign him, then wasn't that tacit approval - or even facilitation - of his doping?

Why that team didn't tell you, I don't know.

But, you seem to be just about the only person I know who is in the dark here.

As such, can I suggest that you withdraw your personal attacks?

Dave.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Sorry, but now you have crossed the line with me.

I don't know if you are naive, or if you are really trying to hide all of this under the carpet.

Not only was I aware that Ryder was doping, it was actively discussed in my circles.

HOWEVER, the story is better than that.

There was a VERY concerted effort to out Ryder and have him banned / removed from the sport.

A certain Canadian team tried to recruit Ryder. When he declined (and went to Phonak), that team - comprised of 'many upstanding members of the Canadian cycling community' - approached a number of individuals to try and out Ryder.

I still have the email trail. And, I do know others that received similar communications.

I did not report it at the time for a number of reasons. Aside from it being circumstantial in nature and non-analytical (WADA rules have recently changed and would be more accepting of this information), it was also clearly self-incriminating on the part of the team that supplied the information.

In other words, if they knew Ryder was doping and were still trying to sign him, then wasn't that tacit approval - or even facilitation - of his doping?

Why that team didn't tell you, I don't know.

But, you seem to be just about the only person I know who is in the dark here.

As such, can I suggest that you withdraw your personal attacks?

Dave.

My personal attack on you was your suggestion Clara Hughes was lying which you have conveniently overlooked in your self-righteous reply. Quit trying to dodge the issue by touting your inside knowledge about Ryder. I am not going to withdraw my comments that you are simply another anonymous poster who hides behind that anonymity to defame people like Clara Hughes and then confronted with that allegation you change the subject. I suggest you look in the mirror at your moral compass.

If you knew what you know in your so-called select or inside circles about Ryder why did you not report the information to the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport? It is clear it is not me that was hiding Ryder's doping under the rug, but you. If you knew what you say you knew you are part of the omerta problem that perpetuates the culture of doping in spite of your anti doping comments in the Clinic which are now pretty suspect.

You are very smug and somehow think your comment deserve more respect than they do because of your so-called insider position. Your basic problem is you are too impressed with your own sense of your self-importance.

 

[Benotti69]

Robbie Cannuck, do you really believe Mick barry stopped doping in 2006? Really?

Why would he stop then? He went to ride for Rolf Aldag, a guy who confessed to doping and he also confessed to stopping 1999, when doping not only did not stop but entered a new era......So he lied as in 2007 he confessed to only 'SOL doping'. Convenient.

Apply some logic and common sense to the sport based on what we know, those still racing, running teams, enablers of doping, doping doctors, etc and you will see that nothing has changed, just the excuses and PR gets rolled out every so often to please the sponsors and even that is failing as sponsors don't want to get involved in a dirty sport, so the sport is left relying on bike manufacturers and other bike related sponsorship.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

<snip>
A certain Canadian team tried to recruit Ryder. When he declined (and went to Phonak), that team - comprised of 'many upstanding members of the Canadian cycling community' - approached a number of individuals to try and out Ryder.

I still have the email trail. And, I do know others that received similar communications.

<snip>

In other words, if they knew Ryder was doping and were still trying to sign him, then wasn't that tacit approval - or even facilitation - of his doping?

<snip>

Dave.

Huh. Well, the only Canadian UCI Pro-Conti team I can remember from that year was Symmetrics, so... But I don't really buy it. Kevin was running a clean team. There's guys like Routley that would have blown the whistle long and loud if it wasn't.

John Swanson

 

[Neworld]

My personal attack on you was your suggestion Clara Hughes was lying which you have conveniently overlooked in your self-righteous reply. Quit trying to dodge the issue by touting your inside knowledge about Ryder. I am not going to withdraw my comments that you are simply another anonymous poster who hides behind that anonymity to defame people like Clara Hughes and then confronted with that allegation you change the subject. I suggest you look in the mirror at your moral compass.

If you knew what you know in your so-called select or inside circles about Ryder why did you not report the information to the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport? It is clear it is not me that was hiding Ryder's doping under the rug, but you. If you knew what you say you knew you are part of the omerta problem that perpetuates the culture of doping in spite of your anti doping comments in the Clinic which are now pretty suspect.

You are very smug and somehow think your comment deserve more respect than they do because of your so-called insider position. Your basic problem is you are too impressed with your own sense of your self-importance.

Robbie,

There are 2 issues here.

1. RH- everyone in BC knew he was doping, for years, and now it is confirmed...just look at the brat pack he was hanging with (Roland Green, Seamus, C. Sheppard). This is common knowledge. Just stop.

2. Clara- I agree with you here. Clara has been at the top of 2 sports for decades. In Spd sk8g she lost to dopers like C. Pechstein and beat other 'clean' skaters. Can we know 'for sure' that she never micro dosed with EPO, probably not. We could attribute that same rationale to all the riders that even the clinic 12 continually purport are clean too. I think it is safe to say she is clean, honest and a great ambassador. Personally, I have seen her with my own eyes, while I'm in a car, doing hill repeats on a good climb in Dundas in Jan and Feb (-5C, snow on the ground) and work a dismal job in Hamilton. She is very hard working. Does that prove she never doped? No, but her passing relationship with Machiavellian MB was minimal at most. I agree that she is the type of person that looks for good in everyone and probably thought highly of MB as a fellow National would. She wouldn't have first hand knowledge of MB or your/my secret doping conduct.

my 2 cents

 

[ScienceIsCool]

I forgot Jet Fuel! I don't know much about them, so no comment. So I guess Jet Fuel or Symmetrics was trying to sign Ryder. Neither of them really had the budget for it though.

John Swanson

 

[westerner]

Clara Hughes is a huge name in sports in Canada, has big money media connections and a go to person for the media when it comes to comments on many sporting issues.

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/videos/show-clip/clara-hughes-on-doping-and-lance-armstrong

Clara says re Speedskater Pechstein "you just know from the way someone looks (that they are doping)"

However despite knowing Barry since he was a junior, being former Saturn Team Teammates with Michael and Dede she could not just "know" from the way he looked when Michael started down the wrong path?

http://www.thestar.com/sports/2010/05/20/toronto_cyclist_michael_barry_denies_claims_he_used_drugs.html

Olympic champion Clara Hughes, who trained with Barry during her cycling days, said she has no doubt he’s clean.

“I have known Michael since he was 15 years old and he has been a teammate, a friend, and a person I have looked to for hope as an athlete,” said Hughes. “Hope that it is possible to play fair and clean and that hard, disciplined work pays off. He is an individual of great integrity and there is simply no way in my mind that there is any basis to any allegations.”

I dont think there is any evidence Clara is a cheater or a liar, but she really does seem to be a bit out to lunch on the doping topic for someone who was an elite sports person for over 20 years. Its disappointing when people with such a high profile and level of public trust are spouting messages of "nothing to see here" - re doping in womens cycling, or doper appologists - re Barry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oW2sn8i8zE

That said its NOT Clara's fault Barry is a doper and a serial liar, and this is just another example of the tough spot the dopers put their family, friends and supporters in as a result of their actions.

Thats all.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Robbie Cannuck, do you really believe Mick barry stopped doping in 2006? Really?

Why would he stop then? He went to ride for Rolf Aldag, a guy who confessed to doping and he also confessed to stopping 1999, when doping not only did not stop but entered a new era......So he lied as in 2007 he confessed to only 'SOL doping'. Convenient.

Apply some logic and common sense to the sport based on what we know, those still racing, running teams, enablers of doping, doping doctors, etc and you will see that nothing has changed, just the excuses and PR gets rolled out every so often to please the sponsors and even that is failing as sponsors don't want to get involved in a dirty sport, so the sport is left relying on bike manufacturers and other bike related sponsorship.

I'm not buying he only started doping after the 2002 Vuelta either. He signs with Rene Wenzel directed Saturn in 1998. Teammates include Klasna, Danielson, Nathan O'Neal, Horner among others.

Hard to believe that he only starts with the hot sauce in 2003.

 

[Ripper]

Clara Hughes is a huge name in sports in Canada, has big money media connections and a go to person for the media when it comes to comments on many sporting issues.

http://www.cbc.ca/strombo/videos/show-clip/clara-hughes-on-doping-and-lance-armstrong

Clara says re Speedskater Pechstein "you just know from the way someone looks (that they are doping)"

However despite knowing Barry since he was a junior, being former Saturn Team Teammates with Michael and Dede she could not just "know" from the way he looked when Michael started down the wrong path?

http://www.thestar.com/sports/2010/...ichael_barry_denies_claims_he_used_drugs.html

Olympic champion Clara Hughes, who trained with Barry during her cycling days, said she has no doubt he’s clean.

“I have known Michael since he was 15 years old and he has been a teammate, a friend, and a person I have looked to for hope as an athlete,” said Hughes. “Hope that it is possible to play fair and clean and that hard, disciplined work pays off. He is an individual of great integrity and there is simply no way in my mind that there is any basis to any allegations.”

I dont think there is any evidence Clara is a cheater or a liar, but she really does seem to be a bit out to lunch on the doping topic for someone who was an elite sports person for over 20 years. Its disappointing when people with such a high profile and level of public trust are spouting messages of "nothing to see here" - re doping in womens cycling, or doper appologists - re Barry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oW2sn8i8zE

That said its NOT Clara's fault Barry is a doper and a serial liar, and this is just another example of the tough spot the dopers put their family, friends and supporters in as a result of their actions.

Thats all.

In all fairness, I think a bit of context is useful. Some folks you can tell by looking, which is what I think her point was. That does not transfer to knowing about everyone from the way they look.

She could certainly be called naive about MB. That said, there's lots of folks who fall under that category. We can only take it for how it was. She certainly has been in a mixed bag of sports and I don't think she has really looked too deeply at the ugly side.

 

[Ripper]

Robbie,

There are 2 issues here.

1. RH- everyone in BC knew he was doping, for years, and now it is confirmed...just look at the brat pack he was hanging with (Roland Green, Seamus, C. Sheppard). This is common knowledge. Just stop.

Was RH known to have started back in the Subaru days?

 

[D-Queued]

My personal attack on you was your suggestion Clara Hughes was lying which you have conveniently overlooked in your self-righteous reply. Quit trying to dodge the issue by touting your inside knowledge about Ryder. I am not going to withdraw my comments that you are simply another anonymous poster who hides behind that anonymity to defame people like Clara Hughes and then confronted with that allegation you change the subject. I suggest you look in the mirror at your moral compass.

If you knew what you know in your so-called select or inside circles about Ryder why did you not report the information to the Canadian Centre for Ethics in Sport? It is clear it is not me that was hiding Ryder's doping under the rug, but you. If you knew what you say you knew you are part of the omerta problem that perpetuates the culture of doping in spite of your anti doping comments in the Clinic which are now pretty suspect.

You are very smug and somehow think your comment deserve more respect than they do because of your so-called insider position. Your basic problem is you are too impressed with your own sense of your self-importance.

EXACTLY!

I am just some dumb anonymous Internet poster. And, apparently a smug one at that!

Makes me a really easy target, doesn't it?

How do I even know anything? Why would anyone tell me anything?

Why would anyone expect that a smug Internet poster would approach CCES? With what credibility?

Beats the heck out of me.

Shouldn't this lead us to ask, 'what do people know who aren't anonymous Internet posters'? People who aren't smug, but knowledgeable, trusting and trustworthy? People who actually seems intelligent? People that don't haunt Internet forums? People who continued friendships with folks on teams with considerable doping controversy and who also continued to compete at the highest of international levels against other known dopers?

Shouldn't they at least suspect something?

Thus, when someone who should have knowledge claims that nothing is going on, I just get lost.

How is that possible?

How?

When Jan Ullrich says all you need to do is add one and one to figure out what was going on, doesn't it just make sense to question everything?

Dave.

P.S. Thanks for acknowledging the personal attack.

 

[Neworld]

Was RH known to have started back in the Subaru days?

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2012/05/ryder-hesjedals-rocky-road-to-the-top/

 

[Neworld]

EXACTLY!

I am just some dumb anonymous Internet poster..

All I know is that I don't dope, and RR (who knows a lot) is an anonymous poster.

 

[Benotti69]

I'm not buying he only started doping after the 2002 Vuelta either. He signs with Rene Wenzel directed Saturn in 1998. Teammates include Klasna, Danielson, Nathan O'Neal, Horner among others.

Hard to believe that he only starts with the hot sauce in 2003.

It does stink all these guys caught doping and they come out with baloney like i only did it the once, i only doped on this team a few times and no other team or i stopped in 2006.

Sure guys, sure.............