Milano - Sanremo 2025, one day monument, March 22

[Keldergoat]

If MVP rides again for Philipsen, he should quit from cycling

Don't know man, I kinda like the lack of selfishness from great champions in big races that MvdP showed last year. It shows a humbleness and intelligence that you don't often see in the peloton.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Don't know man, I kinda like the lack of selfishness from great champions in big races that MvdP showed last year. It shows a humbleness and intelligence that you don't often see in the peloton.

For me big champions do what Contador did to Kreuziger in the 2015 Giro (IIRC, stage 4).

 

[Lequack]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5ZOj_imdMY

 

[scribers]

I rewatched it a couple of days ago, but to be 100% sure, I rewatched it again. My opinion was that MVDP followed Pogi's attack, and then the descent started in which Pogacar took the lead. Eventually everyone comes back right before the descent is over, and Mohoric attacks. Since Philipsen is already back then, and there are only flat sections left, MVDP decided to ride for one of the best sprinters in the peloton which is also his teammate. I don't see in which part MVDP should've ridden for himself.

This is a nice piece of creative writing. MVP covered almost all of the attacks which benefited everyone in the reduced bunch. Philipsen never once rode on mvp’s wheel. Mvp didn’t contest the sprint because he was completely out of gas from covering all attacks since the poggio. MVP was the defending champ in the worlds jersey hoping his teammate could finish it himself.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Don't know man, I kinda like the lack of selfishness from great champions in big races that MvdP showed last year. It shows a humbleness and intelligence that you don't often see in the peloton.

Yes humbleness and intelligence would be the first two words I think of to describe mvdp

 

[Peyroteo94]

This is a nice piece of creative writing. MVP covered almost all of the attacks which benefited everyone in the reduced bunch. Philipsen never once rode on mvp’s wheel. Mvp didn’t contest the sprint because he was completely out of gas from covering all attacks since the poggio. MVP was the defending champ in the worlds jersey hoping his teammate could finish it himself.

It's obvious MVP rode for Philipsen. He didn't even try to surpass Pogacar in the descent. He was just controlling Pogacar.

 

[Berniece]

This is a nice piece of creative writing. MVP covered almost all of the attacks which benefited everyone in the reduced bunch. Philipsen never once rode on mvp’s wheel. Mvp didn’t contest the sprint because he was completely out of gas from covering all attacks since the poggio. MVP was the defending champ in the worlds jersey hoping his teammate could finish it himself.

Can you tell me what is exactly wrong about my interpretation? After the descend there was a group of 12 riders. From that point on MVDP rode for Philipsen, since he has the better sprint. But everything before that moment, he rode for himself. What should he have done differently after following Pogacar's attack?

 

[Netserk]

Imagine having watched the past few years of this sport and your takeaway being that the strongest rider doesn't win often enough...

Also, there wasn't a single edition where Sagan was clearly the strongest rider and there also hasn't been a single edition where Pogacar was clearly the strongest rider.

Sagan was clearly the strongest rider in 2017.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

Sagan was clearly the strongest rider in 2017.

Which is why he couldn't get rid of Alaphilippe or Kwiatkowski and then lost a sprint he should have won with his eyes closed on paper.

Perhaps you can make a case he was the strongest rider that day, but if he was significantly better than Kwiatkowski and Alaphilippe on the day, he wouldn't have found a way to lose.

And considering the way Nibali won the year after, you can't blame the era either.

 

[Netserk]

Which is why he couldn't get rid of Alaphilippe or Kwiatkowski and then lost a sprint he should have won with his eyes closed on paper.

Perhaps you can make a case he was the strongest rider that day, but if he was significantly better than Kwiatkowski and Alaphilippe on the day, he wouldn't have found a way to lose.

And considering the way Nibali won the year after, you can't blame the era either.

This basically amounts to saying that the clearly strongest rider always wins, and if he doesn't win, then he isn't the clearly strongest rider.

 

[scribers]

It's obvious MVP rode for Philipsen. He didn't even try to surpass Pogacar in the descent. He was just controlling Pogacar.

He was content to finish with pogi at that point and outsprint him. Mvp could not anticipate the finish from there

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

@Zoetemelk-fan just mentioned a couple of options, I think!

Yes, I was specifically thinking about the two most drastic hairpins on the climb, after 1.4 and 1.7k's, a more or less full strong team team taking the first lefthander hairpin, a bit slower for the inbetween flatch, stretching out the peleton/front grouip, and simply blocking on the righthander hairpin, whereafter the climb picks up gradients a couple of hundred meters later.
If a really strong team is able to destroy the machinery for other favorites, and if the team has a very strong climber as captain, then IMO a bleeding wound can be made up to 10-15 seconds before the top.
But as I wrote - not something I personally am looking forward to witness...

 

[Ilmaestro99]

and because the strongest rider usually doesn't win.

If thats your problem then just watch zwift races or triathlons.

Road cycling is a racing sport, not a watts per kilo contest

 

[tobydawq]

Which is why he couldn't get rid of Alaphilippe or Kwiatkowski and then lost a sprint he should have won with his eyes closed on paper.

Perhaps you can make a case he was the strongest rider that day, but if he was significantly better than Kwiatkowski and Alaphilippe on the day, he wouldn't have found a way to lose.

And considering the way Nibali won the year after, you can't blame the era either.

He was clearly the strongest. Not so much stronger than the others, however, that he could pull almost all the way to the finish and then win the sprint. I think you know that, so I don't really get your post.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

This basically amounts to saying that the clearly strongest rider always wins, and if he doesn't win, then he isn't the clearly strongest rider.

That just isn't true. In Sanremo, the strongest rider has won if either an attack from Poggio makes it like in 2018 or 2023, and sometimes also if someone can control the Poggio and then win the sprint like in 2019. If someone wins by ambush like in 2021 or wins after getting dropped on the Poggio like in 2024, then the winner is not the clearly strongest rider, and often not even one of the strongest riders. Finally, in a super close edition like 2017, I don't think there isn't a clear strongest rider, but one of the strongest riders has won. And I don't see how my previous post contradicts the latter statements.

 

[scribers]

Can you tell me what is exactly wrong about my interpretation? After the descend there was a group of 12 riders. From that point on MVDP rode for Philipsen, since he has the better sprint. But everything before that moment, he rode for himself. What should he have done differently after following Pogacar's attack?

Because it worked just worked out? It’s easy now to sit back and say mvp rode for philipsen, but did he? You can make the case if if mvp doesn’t chase down every attack it doesn’t end in a reduced bunch to philipsens advantage. If mvp doesnt do this it would have just put pressure on others to cover the attacks and maybe he would have had the kick himself to gap the finish. The race went the way it did and philipsen was able to finish his own race.. It just worked itself out.

 

[Berniece]

Because it worked just worked out? It’s easy now to sit back and say mvp rode for philipsen, but did he? You can make the case if if mvp doesn’t chase down every attack it doesn’t end in a reduced bunch to philipsens advantage. If mvp doesnt do this it would have just put pressure on others to cover the attacks and maybe he would have had the kick himself to gap the finish. The race went the way it did and philipsen was able to finish his own race.. It just worked itself out.

I don't understand why people think MVDP should've tried to attack himself those last 3km's instead of riding for Philipsen. It's a team sport after all, and Philipsen was the fastest sprinter back then.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

He was clearly the strongest. Not so much stronger than the others, however, that he could pull almost all the way to the finish and then win the sprint. I think you know that, so I don't really get your post.

It's a sub-3-minute ride from the end of the descent until the start of the sprint, hardly Politt versus Cousin and, for the finale of a major classic, also a pretty short distance for the better sprinter to be towing along one or two weaker sprinters who aren't contributing much/at all. For example the general consensus was that Terpstra kept riding with Kristoff for far too long in Ronde 2015, and yet Kristoff was still stuck on the front for much longer than that en route to easily winning the sprint.

 

[tobydawq]

It's a sub-3-minute ride from the end of the descent until the start of the sprint, hardly Politt versus Cousin and, for the finale of a major classic, also a pretty short distance for the better sprinter to be towing along one or two weaker sprinters who aren't contributing much/at all. For example the general consensus was that Terpstra kept riding with Kristoff for far too long in Ronde 2015, and yet Kristoff was still stuck on the front for much longer than that en route to easily winning the sprint.

Kristoff/Terpstra sprint ratio is quite a lot larger than Sagan/Kwiato or Sagan/Ala sprint ratio. It was not Nibali and Landa he towed to the line...

 

[AmRacer]

Strongest rider? Strongest up Poggio? Strongest sprinter? Descender?

 

[Keldergoat]

Yes humbleness and intelligence would be the first two words I think of to describe mvdp

Race intelligence for MvdP is top notch, I'd say second to none. He rides in such a cunning way. Of course, he had his Binck Bank 2020, T-A 2021 type of long range attacks that weren't necessarily smart, but in the last years I think he rides way more tactical.

Humbleness might be somewhat strange for a guy who drives in a Lamborghini, but sacrificing yourself for 100% for a team mate after the Poggio was definitely not arrogant.

 

[Red Rick]

Race intelligence for MvdP is top notch, I'd say second to none. He rides in such a cunning way. Of course, he had his Binck Bank 2020, T-A 2021 type of long range attacks that weren't necessarily smart, but in the last years I think he rides way more tactical.

Humbleness might be somewhat strange for a guy who drives in a Lamborghini, but sacrificing yourself for 100% for a team mate after the Poggio was definitely not arrogant.

Racing intelligence is hardly something I'd associate with MvdP. He's made a lot of stupid moves and lazy positioning mistakes over the years.

Last year he pretty clearly was riding in service of Philipsen all along.

 

[Netserk]

That just isn't true. In Sanremo, the strongest rider has won if either an attack from Poggio makes it like in 2018 or 2023, and sometimes also if someone can control the Poggio and then win the sprint like in 2019. If someone wins by ambush like in 2021 or wins after getting dropped on the Poggio like in 2024, then the winner is not the clearly strongest rider, and often not even one of the strongest riders. Finally, in a super close edition like 2017, I don't think there isn't a clear strongest rider, but one of the strongest riders has won. And I don't see how my previous post contradicts the latter statements.

Who was the last “clearly strongest rider” who didn't win?

 

[Red Rick]

Wrong [[deleted content]]. He is an intelligent racer, his positioning is top notch and very rarely do you see him making stupid moves.

Few can peak better for the races that suit him than Mathieu. He races Flanders and Roubaix in an offensive and attritional way because he knows that the harder the race, the better for him. If he doesn't think he can win or someone else in the team has better chances, he will ride for the team.

Why on earth would he try and sprint himself when he knows from training that in a flat sprint Philipsen beats him 9 out of 10 times? That is called being smart and realistic. It means someone can leave his ego by the wayside and people who interpret that as a negative are just unserious.

If you ignore times when he says *** like "I didn't think positioning before the final Oude Kwaremont" or misses a complete briefing and crashes out the first lap of an Olympic MTB race, or misses an echelon in the first hour of RvV 2023, or when he forgot to eat and lost himself a WCRR he was the favorite for, he is a genius indeed. Also, going for attrition lost him RVV the last 2 times he lost it.

He's gotten smarter racing wise, but he's made a lot of very dumb mistakes along the way.

And I didn't even remotely criticize him for racing for Philipsen. I just said that because I think it wasn't an adaptation during the race, I think it was always the plan. Also got himself boxed in before Pogs attack by the way.

And by the way, his positioning is great when he wants too. He just gets into the wrong spot on the regular because he misinterprets the race.

 

[Netserk]

It's a sub-3-minute ride from the end of the descent until the start of the sprint, hardly Politt versus Cousin and, for the finale of a major classic, also a pretty short distance for the better sprinter to be towing along one or two weaker sprinters who aren't contributing much/at all. For example the general consensus was that Terpstra kept riding with Kristoff for far too long in Ronde 2015, and yet Kristoff was still stuck on the front for much longer than that en route to easily winning the sprint.

Alaphilippe won the group sprint two years later, Kwiatkowski won Amstel in a group sprint two years before. Remind me of Terpstra's group sprint victories.