More lame Russia bashing

[Starstruck]

Angella Issajenko knows how it works. Coca-Cola rules. Ben found out the hard way who was special.

 

[Tienus]

Today the WADA report about doping in Sochi will come out.

Interesting article:
https://www.rt.com/sport/351771-russia-ioc-wada-ethics-doping/
“I have to question on what authority the USA and Canadian Anti-Doping agencies prepared their letter and what mandate they have to lead an international call for a ban of another nation in the Olympic family,"

 

[gazr99]

Re:

Today the WADA report about doping in Sochi will come out.

Interesting article:
https://www.rt.com/sport/351771-russia-ioc-wada-ethics-doping/
“I have to question on what authority the USA and Canadian Anti-Doping agencies prepared their letter and what mandate they have to lead an international call for a ban of another nation in the Olympic family,"

Canada is a bit of strange one, maybe USADA wanted a supporter and asked for cooperation? Who says the Cold War is over :lol:

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Today the WADA report about doping in Sochi will come out.

Interesting article:
https://www.rt.com/sport/351771-russia-ioc-wada-ethics-doping/
“I have to question on what authority the USA and Canadian Anti-Doping agencies prepared their letter and what mandate they have to lead an international call for a ban of another nation in the Olympic family,"

I am starting to feel more and more perplexed with Beckie Scott. Coming from XC skiing, I know her racing. I was there at Soldier Hollow (2002 Olympics Cross Country) when she snagged 3rd from a chasing pack of 6 or 7 women who were behind the 2 Russians who later were DQ'd (Danilova and Lazutina). Among those in the chasing pack was Tchepalova and I believe another Russian. Beckie Scott also made the top 6 in the 15km and was 4th in the sprint. I've said this before in other threads, she went from a virtual nobody in terms of top (medal winning or medal contending) nordic skiers in Nagano, where her best result was 45th, minutes behind the same women she beat in Salt Lake and the Danilova and Lazutina, who she was chasing in the pursuit race where she later got moved to Gold. Interesting how Danilova and Lazutina were dominant forces throughout the 90's and stayed there up until their disqualification, doping or not, while Beckie Scott went from a journey woman skier who only got her first WC podium in the pre-Olympic races in Soldier Hollow in January 2001. To move up 40, 50, and 60+ places and contend against known, and probable dopers within that top 10-15 skiers is highly suspicious.

Now she is the 'spokeswoman' for 'clean sport?' I know a four year Olympic cycle can change things, but going from 2 or 3 minutes behind in a 5km race to within seconds? You see that in junior races where somebody may have just started skiing and struggles through their first year or two, but then gets good training, develops, learns the technique and gains more confidence. Beckie Scott was 23/24 in Nagano and 27/28 in Salt Lake. By the end of your U23 days, you should be well developed and what you see is what you get, unless you come from a poor country with no resources including solid coaching. Sure, Canada didn't have coaching or resources at the time (things have improved since then), but it's not like they were an 'exotic' country with no ski history. I wonder what exactly Torbjorn Karlsen (Scott's personal coach at the time) was coaching her? What did she do differently in 1998 to 2002? At least Legkov, one of the Olympic champions accused of doping in Sochi, had an extensive history, with good junior results and even better U23 (gold and silver in 2006), Tour de Ski titles, Holmenkollen 50 win, World Championship medals, WC distance overall title, world cup individual and team victories...Yes, it's unusual to see a nation sweeping a xc race, particularly at the Olympics, and at home, what's more, but the Norwegian women did exactly the same just one day before, sweeping the 30km almost 90 seconds ahead of 4th place. Where's the outrage there? Yes, women's xc these days is not as strong or deep as it was in years gone by, but these are still professionals who are well trained and have some legs and lungs on them.


Of course, we'll now hear of 'the Russians just don't want to take responsibility,' or 'the Russians are calling this a conspiracy and that it's political, etc, etc...'

I am starting to believe more and more that it's 100% political. The RUSOC head, is right. Scott wants to fight for clean sport, yet you hardly hear of her talking about anyone else besides the Russians, even though we've heard plenty of non-Russian doping stories over recent months/years. She is just a slightly less aggressive version of Paula Radcliffe.

 

[adamfo]

Russian Cycling actually seems to come out of the McLaren report quite well ! At the level of canoeing....

https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/755028477317787648/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

The report stated its three main findings:
1. The Moscow laboratory operated, for the protection of doped Russian athletes, within a state-dictated failsafe system, described in the report as the Disappearing Positive Methodology.

2. The Sochi Laboratory operated a unique sample swapping methodology to enable doped Russian athletes to compete at the Games.

3. The Ministry of Sport directed, controlled and oversaw the manipulation of athlete’s analytical results or sample swapping, with the active participation and assistance of the FSB, CSP, and both Moscow and Sochi Laboratories.

4. The same program was in place at the time of 2012 Olympics

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Russian Cycling actually seems to come out of the McLaren report quite well ! At the level of canoeing....

https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/755028477317787648/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

The report stated its three main findings:
1. The Moscow laboratory operated, for the protection of doped Russian athletes, within a state-dictated failsafe system, described in the report as the Disappearing Positive Methodology.

2. The Sochi Laboratory operated a unique sample swapping methodology to enable doped Russian athletes to compete at the Games.

3. The Ministry of Sport directed, controlled and oversaw the manipulation of athlete’s analytical results or sample swapping, with the active participation and assistance of the FSB, CSP, and both Moscow and Sochi Laboratories.

4. The same program was in place at the time of 2012 Olympics

So nothing new then?

 

[gazr99]

They said the FSB actually took part wow! Those who created this report better be careful for food getting poisoned, tips of an umbrella or any self inflicted gun shots to the head :lol:

 

[gooner]

Re: Re:

Russian Cycling actually seems to come out of the McLaren report quite well ! At the level of canoeing....

https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/755028477317787648/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

The report stated its three main findings:
1. The Moscow laboratory operated, for the protection of doped Russian athletes, within a state-dictated failsafe system, described in the report as the Disappearing Positive Methodology.

2. The Sochi Laboratory operated a unique sample swapping methodology to enable doped Russian athletes to compete at the Games.

3. The Ministry of Sport directed, controlled and oversaw the manipulation of athlete’s analytical results or sample swapping, with the active participation and assistance of the FSB, CSP, and both Moscow and Sochi Laboratories.

4. The same program was in place at the time of 2012 Olympics

So nothing new then?

It's not just athletics anymore. Over 30 sports implicated in it with positives hidden.

This is far more wide ranging than the WADA 1 and 2 reports.

 

[adamfo]

Re: Re:

Russian Cycling actually seems to come out of the McLaren report quite well ! At the level of canoeing....

https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/755028477317787648/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

The report stated its three main findings:
1. The Moscow laboratory operated, for the protection of doped Russian athletes, within a state-dictated failsafe system, described in the report as the Disappearing Positive Methodology.

2. The Sochi Laboratory operated a unique sample swapping methodology to enable doped Russian athletes to compete at the Games.

3. The Ministry of Sport directed, controlled and oversaw the manipulation of athlete’s analytical results or sample swapping, with the active participation and assistance of the FSB, CSP, and both Moscow and Sochi Laboratories.

4. The same program was in place at the time of 2012 Olympics

So nothing new then?

I was glad to see some soccer players on the list. They seem untouchable but PEDs are commonplace and testing lax . Heck even ping pong players have failed tests.

 

[ToreBear]

Re: Re:

Today the WADA report about doping in Sochi will come out.

Interesting article:
https://www.rt.com/sport/351771-russia-ioc-wada-ethics-doping/
“I have to question on what authority the USA and Canadian Anti-Doping agencies prepared their letter and what mandate they have to lead an international call for a ban of another nation in the Olympic family,"

Now she is the 'spokeswoman' for 'clean sport?' I know a four year Olympic cycle can change things, but going from 2 or 3 minutes behind in a 5km race to within seconds? You see that in junior races where somebody may have just started skiing and struggles through their first year or two, but then gets good training, develops, learns the technique and gains more confidence. Beckie Scott was 23/24 in Nagano and 27/28 in Salt Lake. By the end of your U23 days, you should be well developed and what you see is what you get, unless you come from a poor country with no resources including solid coaching. Sure, Canada didn't have coaching or resources at the time (things have improved since then), but it's not like they were an 'exotic' country with no ski history. I wonder what exactly Torbjorn Karlsen (Scott's personal coach at the time) was coaching her? What did she do differently in 1998 to 2002? At least Legkov, one of the Olympic champions accused of doping in Sochi, had an extensive history, with good junior results and even better U23 (gold and silver in 2006), Tour de Ski titles, Holmenkollen 50 win, World Championship medals, WC distance overall title, world cup individual and team victories...Yes, it's unusual to see a nation sweeping a xc race, particularly at the Olympics, and at home, what's more, but the Norwegian women did exactly the same just one day before, sweeping the 30km almost 90 seconds ahead of 4th place. Where's the outrage there? Yes, women's xc these days is not as strong or deep as it was in years gone by, but these are still professionals who are well trained and have some legs and lungs on them.

Of course, we'll now hear of 'the Russians just don't want to take responsibility,' or 'the Russians are calling this a conspiracy and that it's political, etc, etc...'

I am starting to believe more and more that it's 100% political. The RUSOC head, is right. Scott wants to fight for clean sport, yet you hardly hear of her talking about anyone else besides the Russians, even though we've heard plenty of non-Russian doping stories over recent months/years. She is just a slightly less aggressive version of Paula Radcliffe.

The fat text is something that I certainly don't agree with. Probably a lot of the other stuff too. Look I know it hurts. I know the first Russian defense mechanism is to say, "but what about?". Then it's on to the conspiracy theories.

The reason Russia is such a focus is that the problems have been so well known for so many years in Russia. A lot has been done to help Russia deal with it by helping set up an antidoping infrastructure like Rusada and the Moscow lab. But when it turns out the Russian government is using the resources of the state to subvert that same infrastructure, it's kinda unprecedented.

 

[gooner]

WADA wants to ban them entirely from Rio.

My guess is that Tygart and other countries knew what was in this report when they called for this action a few days ago.

 

[gazr99]

Definitely disagree with U23 statement. How often have promising young rider who were junior champions turned out to do nothing in all sports. If there's a chance you regress stepping up to Olympic level despite your excellent pedigree, there's the chance you can mature as a person and athlete and really improve as you get older as you hit your prime

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Today the WADA report about doping in Sochi will come out.

Interesting article:
https://www.rt.com/sport/351771-russia-ioc-wada-ethics-doping/
“I have to question on what authority the USA and Canadian Anti-Doping agencies prepared their letter and what mandate they have to lead an international call for a ban of another nation in the Olympic family,"

Now she is the 'spokeswoman' for 'clean sport?' I know a four year Olympic cycle can change things, but going from 2 or 3 minutes behind in a 5km race to within seconds? You see that in junior races where somebody may have just started skiing and struggles through their first year or two, but then gets good training, develops, learns the technique and gains more confidence. Beckie Scott was 23/24 in Nagano and 27/28 in Salt Lake. By the end of your U23 days, you should be well developed and what you see is what you get, unless you come from a poor country with no resources including solid coaching. Sure, Canada didn't have coaching or resources at the time (things have improved since then), but it's not like they were an 'exotic' country with no ski history. I wonder what exactly Torbjorn Karlsen (Scott's personal coach at the time) was coaching her? What did she do differently in 1998 to 2002? At least Legkov, one of the Olympic champions accused of doping in Sochi, had an extensive history, with good junior results and even better U23 (gold and silver in 2006), Tour de Ski titles, Holmenkollen 50 win, World Championship medals, WC distance overall title, world cup individual and team victories...Yes, it's unusual to see a nation sweeping a xc race, particularly at the Olympics, and at home, what's more, but the Norwegian women did exactly the same just one day before, sweeping the 30km almost 90 seconds ahead of 4th place. Where's the outrage there? Yes, women's xc these days is not as strong or deep as it was in years gone by, but these are still professionals who are well trained and have some legs and lungs on them.

Of course, we'll now hear of 'the Russians just don't want to take responsibility,' or 'the Russians are calling this a conspiracy and that it's political, etc, etc...'

I am starting to believe more and more that it's 100% political. The RUSOC head, is right. Scott wants to fight for clean sport, yet you hardly hear of her talking about anyone else besides the Russians, even though we've heard plenty of non-Russian doping stories over recent months/years. She is just a slightly less aggressive version of Paula Radcliffe.

The fat text is something that I certainly don't agree with. Probably a lot of the other stuff too. Look I know it hurts. I know the first Russian defense mechanism is to say, "but what about?". Then it's on to the conspiracy theories.

The reason Russia is such a focus is that the problems have been so well known for so many years in Russia. A lot has been done to help Russia deal with it by helping set up an antidoping infrastructure like Rusada and the Moscow lab. But when it turns out the Russian government is using the resources of the state to subvert that same infrastructure, it's kinda unprecedented.

I am not Russian.

 

[ToreBear]

Re:

WADA wants to ban them entirely from Rio.

My guess is that Tygart and other countries knew what was in this report when they called for this action a few days ago.

WADA got the report on Saturday.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Definitely disagree with U23 statement. How often have promising young rider who were junior champions turned out to do nothing in all sports. If there's a chance you regress stepping up to Olympic level despite your excellent pedigree, there's the chance you can mature as a person and athlete and really improve as you get older as you hit your prime

You can mature, but from the 60's to Olympic medals?

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Russian Cycling actually seems to come out of the McLaren report quite well ! At the level of canoeing....

https://twitter.com/ringsau/status/755028477317787648/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

The report stated its three main findings:
1. The Moscow laboratory operated, for the protection of doped Russian athletes, within a state-dictated failsafe system, described in the report as the Disappearing Positive Methodology.

2. The Sochi Laboratory operated a unique sample swapping methodology to enable doped Russian athletes to compete at the Games.

3. The Ministry of Sport directed, controlled and oversaw the manipulation of athlete’s analytical results or sample swapping, with the active participation and assistance of the FSB, CSP, and both Moscow and Sochi Laboratories.

4. The same program was in place at the time of 2012 Olympics

So nothing new then?

I was glad to see some soccer players on the list. They seem untouchable but PEDs are commonplace and testing lax . Heck even ping pong players have failed tests.

Untouchable, unless you are Russian!

 

[ToreBear]

@Bullsfan22

Sure

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

@Bullsfan22

Sure

I would love to give my name here, to prove to you that I am not Russian, but giving out personal information on a forum these days is not something I would want. I can message you, or any other way you'd like.

 

[ToreBear]

Re: Re:

@Bullsfan22

Sure

I would love to give my name here, to prove to you that I am not Russian, but giving out personal information on a forum these days is not something I would want. I can message you, or any other way you'd like.

If you want to message me no problem. I will keep it confidential. But I'm more interested in nationality and why you have so much affinity towards the Russians.

 

[gazr99]

Re: Re:

Definitely disagree with U23 statement. How often have promising young rider who were junior champions turned out to do nothing in all sports. If there's a chance you regress stepping up to Olympic level despite your excellent pedigree, there's the chance you can mature as a person and athlete and really improve as you get older as you hit your prime

You can mature, but from the 60's to Olympic medals?

Yeah prime example would be Jamie Vardy in football and whilst not as drastic Marcus Willis who was a club tennis player, and only in the last year or so has started being serious about how he trained and got to the 2nd round of Wimbledon

 

[JetSet]

Russia just simply hasn't moved on since the fall of communism, cheating is deeply ingrained and until there's a change of regime they'll just deny everything. It is fairly clear that Russia has been cheating at state level since the late 1960's, they weren't the only ones, all of the other Eastern European countries were at it too, The GDR were the absolute masters of cheating their way to Olympic medals. I'm sure Russia will kick and scream and remind us all they have nuclear weapons but a 12 month ban from all international sport should send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated. I'd say the same if any other country had a state sponsored doping program.

Pete

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Russia just simply hasn't moved on since the fall of communism, cheating is deeply ingrained and until there's a change of regime they'll just deny everything. It is fairly clear that Russia has been cheating at state level since the late 1960's, they weren't the only ones, all of the other Eastern European countries were at it too, The GDR were the absolute masters of cheating their way to Olympic medals. I'm sure Russia will kick and scream and remind us all they have nuclear weapons but a 12 month ban from all international sport should send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated. I'd say the same if any other country had a state sponsored doping program.

Pete

Not all Eastern European countries. At least not all that weren't part of the Warsaw pact.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Definitely disagree with U23 statement. How often have promising young rider who were junior champions turned out to do nothing in all sports. If there's a chance you regress stepping up to Olympic level despite your excellent pedigree, there's the chance you can mature as a person and athlete and really improve as you get older as you hit your prime

You can mature, but from the 60's to Olympic medals?

Yeah prime example would be Jamie Vardy in football and whilst not as drastic Marcus Willis who was a club tennis player, and only in the last year or so has started being serious about how he trained and got to the 2nd round of Wimbledon

Oh yes. Leicester!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/04/doctor-at-centre-of-arsenal-chelsea-and-leicester-doping-allegat/

 

[ToreBear]

Re:

Russia just simply hasn't moved on since the fall of communism, cheating is deeply ingrained and until there's a change of regime they'll just deny everything. It is fairly clear that Russia has been cheating at state level since the late 1960's, they weren't the only ones, all of the other Eastern European countries were at it too, The GDR were the absolute masters of cheating their way to Olympic medals. I'm sure Russia will kick and scream and remind us all they have nuclear weapons but a 12 month ban from all international sport should send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated. I'd say the same if any other country had a state sponsored doping program.

Pete

This specific program started in 2010 after the Russians had a very bad olympics. Before that, I don't think the government was so involved.

 

[sheisdisaster]

Re:

Russia just simply hasn't moved on since the fall of communism, cheating is deeply ingrained and until there's a change of regime they'll just deny everything. It is fairly clear that Russia has been cheating at state level since the late 1960's, they weren't the only ones, all of the other Eastern European countries were at it too, The GDR were the absolute masters of cheating their way to Olympic medals. I'm sure Russia will kick and scream and remind us all they have nuclear weapons but a 12 month ban from all international sport should send out a message that cheating won't be tolerated. I'd say the same if any other country had a state sponsored doping program.

Pete

Lol, you watch too much British state propaganda. Obviously, Russia operated a state-sponsored doping programme (it is well known fact), just like UK. So many british cheater: Farah, Radcliffe, Ennis, Wiggins, Frome, Murray, rowers, track cycling etc and the UK government definitely are involved (cover up ....) As for nukes, Russians/Soviets are reminded your country only once. When you guys invaded Egypt and began to kill people there. The Russians definitely wiser than americans. They don't nuke people just for lulz, just like the yankees did in japan.