Rolland joins the chorus... I think some of the riders and LeMond are getting fed up with the absurdity of it all...
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More riders complain about wattages set at tempo (by Sky)
- Thread starter thehog
- Start date
Haha those frenchies should train harder, start warming down and most importantly stop being so lazy. Sour grapes!
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Rolland even with his new JV 21st century-new era training can't hand on to the Sky train... sad days
SeriousSam said:
Rolland even with his new JV 21st century-new era training can't hand on to the Sky train... sad days
Swear Valverde said it was less than that might be in a different thread. To be fair Rolland looks like he is getting dropped way before they would reach that level unless they do it from the first 2km of every climb
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agree
what they say is they can't attack when that pace is so high
but yes, if it was inhuman, they would be left behind one by one. instead the group on Lacets, when Bardet attacked, was still quite big
hrotha said:
agree
what they say is they can't attack when that pace is so high
but yes, if it was inhuman, they would be left behind one by one. instead the group on Lacets, when Bardet attacked, was still quite big
Re: Re:
When they can/cannot attack is immaterial. I didn't see anything on Sunday that suggests sky is under any pressure, at all.
Do we need to link to the EPO video greatest hits, again?
BTW, not a direct response to you, just a comment.
pastronef said:
When they can/cannot attack is immaterial. I didn't see anything on Sunday that suggests sky is under any pressure, at all.
Do we need to link to the EPO video greatest hits, again?
BTW, not a direct response to you, just a comment.
Astana don't agree. On Sunday they sat on the front and upped the pace shelling people off the back.
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And how did that work out for Astana? Zilch. They have been basically anonymous in this Tour. Yes, the same Astana Walsh was calling out in 2015. Except Landa of course who now rides for Sky at 440 watts for 70km but that's ok because Brailsford looked him in the eyes & could tell he is clean.
The point being, no one can make an attack stick longer than 30 secomds before they are reeled in - Bardet, Quintana, Valverde nothing. Riders like Rolland are just hanging on for dear life and dropping because of the Sky train.
adamfo said:
And how did that work out for Astana? Zilch. They have been basically anonymous in this Tour. Yes, the same Astana Walsh was calling out in 2015. Except Landa of course who now rides for Sky at 440 watts for 70km but that's ok because Brailsford looked him in the eyes & could tell he is clean.
The point being, no one can make an attack stick longer than 30 secomds before they are reeled in - Bardet, Quintana, Valverde nothing. Riders like Rolland are just hanging on for dear life and dropping because of the Sky train.
Froomes attack sticks. It stuck at Ventoux. I'm sure if Quintana gives it a nice go, it'll stick. Even Ritchie.
Froome wasn't on his own when he attacked on the Ventoux. The top riders were with him. You'd expect top riders to be top riders, no?
By what means they got there is another question, but Froome, Porte and Mollema were on the same level on Ventoux. In fact, wasn't it Porte in front? He was when he hit the moto, otherwise we wouldn't have been treated to that shot of him looking like a foal chewing straw when he went down.
By what means they got there is another question, but Froome, Porte and Mollema were on the same level on Ventoux. In fact, wasn't it Porte in front? He was when he hit the moto, otherwise we wouldn't have been treated to that shot of him looking like a foal chewing straw when he went down.
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In fact the person who looked strongest on Ventoux IMO was Mollema. He's not reacted to Froome's attack straight away, then attacked and left Quintana behind, caught up with Froome easily and at one point even dared to attack Froome.
kwikki said:
In fact the person who looked strongest on Ventoux IMO was Mollema. He's not reacted to Froome's attack straight away, then attacked and left Quintana behind, caught up with Froome easily and at one point even dared to attack Froome.
i was watching Orica bike exchange on youtube (they have their little inside on every stage) and what surprised me was when they showed bardet attacking matt white (DS) told yates "just keep going,he will be pulled back" - and the surprise came from how just matter-of-factly he said that,no emotion in it,no surprise that a domestique can pull back a GC contender nothing...it was simply accepted fact
then there was one more instance of yates saying that basically the pace was so high,nobody could do anything but sit
it says a lot about the mental state of other teams - they know its fcked up and they cant do anything but accept it
then there was one more instance of yates saying that basically the pace was so high,nobody could do anything but sit
it says a lot about the mental state of other teams - they know its fcked up and they cant do anything but accept it
I think focusing on the train is looking in the wrong direction. Of course it makes for dull racing, but from a clinic point of view it isn't that abnormal. These are some of the top climbers in the world - Landa, Poels, Nieve, Henao - of a similar level or even better than riders like Rolland or Yates. It's no surprise that they can maintain a significantly higher power for 15 minutes each than other GC contenders can for an hour of climbing. Especially considering they are effectively each taking a rest day every second or third day.
The elephant in the room is still Froome. He's the guy who is putting these power outputs every day of every stage without any recovery. And, when his train is done, he is still able to attack or close gaps himself with apparent ease. When the climbing train are phoning in time trials and flat stages - Froome is finishing 2nd or going on the attack off the front. He'd win this race easily with or without the train.
The elephant in the room is still Froome. He's the guy who is putting these power outputs every day of every stage without any recovery. And, when his train is done, he is still able to attack or close gaps himself with apparent ease. When the climbing train are phoning in time trials and flat stages - Froome is finishing 2nd or going on the attack off the front. He'd win this race easily with or without the train.
Sky don't seem to be doing that much at the front, except on days where it is important to them (mountains, crosswind flat etc). Whereas, other teams without the depth that Sky have bought in are having to work a little harder. Look at Valverde yesterday. What on earth was he doing leading out a sprint when we have 4 days of Alps coming up.
Sky reassemble USPS/Discovery, in so far as they know that if they position themselves on the front and tap out a fast pace, but most importantly a consistent pace, it will take someone super special to make an attack stick. I don't find that in itself that suspicious, but it is in the context of actually finding the entire thing suspicious. The parallel with USPS ends here, so far, unless Froome can launch a devastating Lance style attack, like he did 2013 Ventoux.
Sky reassemble USPS/Discovery, in so far as they know that if they position themselves on the front and tap out a fast pace, but most importantly a consistent pace, it will take someone super special to make an attack stick. I don't find that in itself that suspicious, but it is in the context of actually finding the entire thing suspicious. The parallel with USPS ends here, so far, unless Froome can launch a devastating Lance style attack, like he did 2013 Ventoux.
True cycling fans love Team Time Trials, there was a time Garmin was very good at that discipline, Rolland should complain to his General Manager.
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But when the fourth domestique is at it, he's already been riding the same tempo as everyone else for 45 minutes before his 15 minutes of glory...
I agree with you though, doped or not Sky dumps tons of money into signing huge talents and using them for domestique duty. If Rolland could keep up I'm sure Sky would make him an offer he couldn't refuse too, perhaps he's just bitter that he makes less cash than Sky's 5th best climber.
DFA123 said:
But when the fourth domestique is at it, he's already been riding the same tempo as everyone else for 45 minutes before his 15 minutes of glory...
I agree with you though, doped or not Sky dumps tons of money into signing huge talents and using them for domestique duty. If Rolland could keep up I'm sure Sky would make him an offer he couldn't refuse too, perhaps he's just bitter that he makes less cash than Sky's 5th best climber.
Re: Re:KG
When Rolland says this i am not in shock and awe, when basso said this in 2012 with Slick Mick and Little Richie as doms, not even mentioning Froome there, it was something different.
On the other hand, Pierre is listed as 67 KG on Wiki, that would mean at 400Watts of Awesomeness he would be riding almost 6W/K.
Given the sometimes little drafting on mountains that would mean the Sky Doms are going well beyond the Magical Line, after which Froomey is supposed to give his final kick?
Pierre should share his power outputs.
Point duly noted.Gaul 58 said:
When Rolland says this i am not in shock and awe, when basso said this in 2012 with Slick Mick and Little Richie as doms, not even mentioning Froome there, it was something different.
On the other hand, Pierre is listed as 67 KG on Wiki, that would mean at 400Watts of Awesomeness he would be riding almost 6W/K.
Given the sometimes little drafting on mountains that would mean the Sky Doms are going well beyond the Magical Line, after which Froomey is supposed to give his final kick?
Pierre should share his power outputs.
Leaders and domestiques are just titles. Should Porte have struggled in recent years to control an attack from the likes of Rolland just because he was a domestique? No.
Are the likes of Rolland superior riders to Poels, Henao and Landa? Nope.
Plus as a domestique you are backed by a teammate. If you burn up chasing down an attack you have backup. So you can expend way more energy in a short period of time than say Bardet could afford to when he attacked recently. If a leader on the attack blows up it'll ruin their tour.
Plus Poels seemed to be rested in the Pyrenees and now Landa and Henao seem to have been rested a little during the second week. In the last week the difference in energy levels between Sky's superdomestiques and rival team leaders is probably going to get even smaller.
Salary caps are the only answer to prevent the richest teams hoarding top talent and preventing us see the likes of Porte, Henao and Poels show what they could do on GC. A damn sight more than Rolland, that's for sure.
Are the likes of Rolland superior riders to Poels, Henao and Landa? Nope.
Plus as a domestique you are backed by a teammate. If you burn up chasing down an attack you have backup. So you can expend way more energy in a short period of time than say Bardet could afford to when he attacked recently. If a leader on the attack blows up it'll ruin their tour.
Plus Poels seemed to be rested in the Pyrenees and now Landa and Henao seem to have been rested a little during the second week. In the last week the difference in energy levels between Sky's superdomestiques and rival team leaders is probably going to get even smaller.
Salary caps are the only answer to prevent the richest teams hoarding top talent and preventing us see the likes of Porte, Henao and Poels show what they could do on GC. A damn sight more than Rolland, that's for sure.
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If you set a uniform salary cap then a top tier Italian based rider will pay roughly 40% taxes on his X-million euro contract it and in khazakstan it would be capped at 10% of his take home khazakstani tenge. A properly set up US based team could potentially get it down to 0%.Fergoose said:
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It seems like Sky's Brits go through the roof quite often, though. Wiggins and Froome are obvious, Kennaugh was brutal in the 2013 Tour, Thomas is ripping it up on all types of terrain nowadays, Stannard and Rowe are beasts on the cobbles, with Stannard even winning Omloop on his own against half the Etixx team, Swift is inches away from getting a win at Sanremo after coming close every time in recent years. Very good record for all their current long-term Brits (and Wiggins).
And Thomas last year was unreal. Altitude Boy, Poels and the Spaniards are good climbers. Poels might have improved slightly at Sky, but the others haven't changed much. Landa might even have regressed from his glowing Astana days.DFA123 said:
It seems like Sky's Brits go through the roof quite often, though. Wiggins and Froome are obvious, Kennaugh was brutal in the 2013 Tour, Thomas is ripping it up on all types of terrain nowadays, Stannard and Rowe are beasts on the cobbles, with Stannard even winning Omloop on his own against half the Etixx team, Swift is inches away from getting a win at Sanremo after coming close every time in recent years. Very good record for all their current long-term Brits (and Wiggins).
Wout Poels pulling back Valverde at will is just mind numbing to this viewer and frankly made me sit up and think WTF is going on here and doubt for the first time in a long time . What it must do to the psych in the other riders is perhaps inhumane
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