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Re:
Every single case on this list caused disbelief. Every one staggered me. Every performance here made me audibly ask "WTF?" Be warned, all this is from memory so many of the dates/etc are likely to be wrong
Deep breath
Basso - From top 10 GC contender at Fassa to Armstrong's main contender at CSC, to that ridiculous thing at the 2006 Giro. Even Simoni felt compelled to call him an "alien". When else have you seen such a thing? 2000 VAM at Monte Bondone? Nearly tying Ullrich in a 50km flat windy TT? Beating Zabriskie? Come on now...
Jose Enrique Gutierrez - 1,88m 78kg and from one day to the next suddenly climbing with Simoni.
Riis - From bland basic domestique for the flat stages at 28 to Tour winner at 32 with the highest w/kg ever recoded on a mountain finish
Pecharroman - Anonymous for years until suddenly he's toying with a talented field at the Euskal, then dropping even Heras at Catalunya (boredly commenting that he expected an even bigger gap!) and then disappears forever.
Kashechkin - Vinokourov's pet project to create a clone of himself
Rumsas - He would've beaten Armstrong in that Tour TT if his bike hadn't broken. Hell, he won a monument.
Perdiguero - Oh boy that Volta Catalunya he won. Bunch sprint? Win. TT? Win. Mountains? Win. Up to that week he'd been about the level Jesus Herrada is now, a good unspectacular rider.
Mayo - That April 2003 to June 2004 period was hilarious to watch. Then Armstrong called the UCI to rein it in and never again...
Aitor Gonzalez - Yet another sudden transformation
Colom - Suddenly discovered new powers in his 30s, beating Contador on the climbs. If he hadn't tested positive he'd have probably contended for GTs
Wiggins - At 29 he goes from a nobody who couldn't climb a speedbump and celebrated finishing only a few minutes behind in TTs, to outclimbing the best and winning TTs by minutes. Pull the other one.
Leipheimer - Another one who suddenly realized he had talent at nearly 30
Hincapie - From sprinter to classics rider to climber? What? Kelly and Jalabert did it before, but they actually had quite some climbing talent as youngsters. Hincapie was a pure sprinter, whole different kettle of fish.
Horner - Not good enough to hold a pro contract in europe at 28, wins the Vuelta at 42? Doing the same time up Angliru in the wet that peak Contador did in the dry?
Kim Andersen - The record holder for positive tests. In a time when almost nobody tested positive and nobody cared and the suspension was usually "you're relegated to the back of the bunch on that stage, try not to dope for the next stage". Not even booted from the race, much less suspended. In those days this guy tested positive so many times that eventually he was given a long term suspension. In the eighties!
The entire 2008 CSF Navigare squad - Sella climbing like Pantani to come back from 24 minutes down on GC to 2 before the TT. Priamo winning a stage. Baliani in every break
Chioccioli - Career bottom of top 10 climber is suddenly Charly Gaul, winning queen stages solo from 50km out, winning 60km flat TTs
Furlan - That 3 year stretch there was something else. Then he fell off a cliff
Gabriele Colombo - Still the fastest ascent of the Poggio ever. Even with a tailwind modern riders can't come close. Also promptly fell off a cliff like most on this list
Frattini - Went on a tear for a brief time, then faded to obscurity
Ugrumov - Another career bottom of the top 10 climber, 8th in the Giro here, 9th in the Vuelta there. Then in his 30s he's suddenly putting Indurain against the ropes. Not just the 93 Giro, but especially the 94 Tour's Alps where he does exactly what Sella would do 15 years later. He put over 3 minutes into Indurain in the Morzine time trial after days of being in breaks, what on earth?
Pascal Herve - That day on the Izoard would've been funny if it wasn't so shocking. He wasn't a bad climber, but was more of a punchy guy for short climbs. We're all riveted watching Pantani vs Armstrong when 36 year old Pascal catches them, goes "oh hi there" and drops them.....drops....Pantani and Armstrong....in the mountains
Dufaux @ Romandie 98 - Braking for corners going up a mountain isn't even remotely normal
Since we're discussing Festina. I know they're an easy target, but I remember a mountain stage in 97 when the group was down to 15 riders or so and every Festina was still there except for the one who was sick, Laukka, who until then had been climbing with the top 5 (another one hit wonder who later didn't do anything elsewhere)
The Saunier squad over a few years (Cobo, de la Fuente, Zaballa, Piepoli, Riccò, Perdiguero, Gil, Marchante) - Where do I even begin?
Froome - Just edges out Pecharroman and Armstrong for the most ridiculous transformation the sport has ever seen. This out of contract guy who Sky are letting go because he is simply terrible at everything, suddenly becomes the best rider on the planet. Just overnight. From getting dropped by the sprinters at the Tour of Poland to thrashing everyone at the Vuelta. A modern miracle, no doubt.
Marcelino García - 1998 early season. Never to be repeated.
Sergey Kolesnikov - Those 2006 results, eh? For 6 months as a 19/20 year old, wins basically every race, then does nothing for the rest of his career.
Mikhail Ignatiev - Like Kolesnikov and to a lesser extent Moreno Moser, Ignatiev started his pro career like a bat out of hell. Was rumoured to be called to attention over his blood values. Fell off a proverbial cliff.
Francesco Ginanni - See Ignatiev. This one took arguably even further.
W52 these last few years (Veloso, Alarcon) - Put them in the World Tour, they'd win the whole thing
Nozal - If in 2008 he was caught on EPO and wasn't riding for toffee, what on earth was he on in 2003??? He won the TT by 1m20s on some of the world's best who were loaded with EPO.
Fran Perez - That 2003 early season was funny as hell. Went down the wrong road and lost the win? No problem, just drop everyone again the next day
De Bonis - All day in the break. Gets caught. Drops them again to win. Truly Gerolsteiner's test mule for the 2008 Tour
Santi Perez - From mediocre climber to best climber in the race to winning a fast flat TT. Screw drugs, how is it even physically possible?
LA MSS circa 2003 and again in 2008 - Shades of Gewiss 94. The way they toyed with the field in Asturias
Europcar 2011 (Kern, Voeckler) - Kern did nothing before or since in his career, but that Dauphiné he won in the mountains and finished 6th. Also won the french TT championships by 2 minutes on Péraud, Coppel, etc. Then Voeckler would've won the Tour if not for a tactical blunder on Alpe d'Huez.
Gerolsteiner - Schumacher and Kohl may have been obvious, but Fothen was the prototypical fast donkey and let's not ignore Lang
Gonchar 2006 Tour - As ridiculous as Landis was, he couldn't come within a minute of Gonchar in either TT
Wesemann Amstel 2006 and Cancellara Worlds 2009 - Two guys unsuited to such hilly courses who both were hilariously strong those days and both threw away easy wins by being tactically stupid. Those two performances were so far beyond believable I can only laugh
Cancellara July 2008 - "Oh look, I can suddenly climb mountains for the first and only time never to be repeated". Dropping climbers on the Croix-de-fer...
Jaskula - 3rd place in a stacked Tour de France field. Unrepeated again.
Halupczok - Barely any results in the amateur ranks until the time the first guys get on EPO. Suddenly he's the best amateur in the world and world champion. Turns pro. Immediately up there fighting for the Giro win as a neo-pro when he suddenly and mysteriously quits the race. Returns to anonymity. By the end of the season he's retired at age 22. Shortly after that he's dead of a heart attack
The entire Cofidis team at the 98 Tour - If Casagrande hadn't crashed out he'd have won that Tour. Bet on it. He was flying. Rinero and Julich weren't nearly on the same level and finished 5th and 3rd. Bobby freaking Julich finished 3rd. Hell, a nothing rider like Rinero still has the record for the fastest climb of the Tourmalet.
Luttenberger - Another shooting star. Wins the Tour de Suisse, 5th at the Tour de France, then....nothing. Just another one in the line of Carrera's Pantani clones like Zaina or Poulnikov
Garcia Quesada - Prototypical Fuentes special
Mercatone Uno - Especially at the 98 Giro final TT. Sprinters and climbers beating the specialists in a TT. That day Pantani really went all out on the EPO and screw the consequences. Then came the blood sample switching story
Murilo Fischer - Look at his 2005. Just look at it.
Jonathan Tiernan-Locke - The question "Where did Pecharroman go?" was finally answered. He was reborn as an englishman with an unpleasant personality
Lotto 2011 - Vdb takes the only win of his career, Vanendert not only learns to climb but wins a major Tdf mountain stage, Gilbert has the most ridiculous season anyone's likely to see anytime soon which he of course won't ever come close to repeating
Clement L'Hottelerie - That one early season madness. Then nothing. Then positive.
Johnny Hoogerland - He was all over every kind of race. Then was tested 3 times in a week, realized they were on to him, and never performed again. As the team doctor later said, he was pumped to the gills on doses obscenely large even for that team.
Andrey Zintchenko - Mediocre roleur, then wins 3 stages in one Vuelta, mountains included.
Melchor Mauri - After several grand tours with a best finish of 71st he won the Vuelta by gaining minutes on Indurain during TTs and defending in the mountains. Then the rest of the world caught up and he never threatened a GT podium again. Let that sink in, gaining minutes in Indurain in TTs. Indurain won the Tour de France that year.
Mauro Gianetti - At age 30 his palmares is nothing. Then EPO comes along and along with several other good results he ends his career with an Amstel win and a Liége win plus a Worlds silver. His career and life almost ended by doping with too much PFC and being rushed to the hospital with a flatlining heartbeat
Andrea Ferrigato - From mediocre he suddenly moves up about 5 levels in performance to win classics for half a season and almost win the World Cup based on that one season alone. Then at the end of the season the UCI institutes the 50% red blood cell limit and he goes back to being anonymous
Frank Vandenbroucke - In one season he won Het Volk, would've won Paris-Nice if not for of a wind split, 2nd in Flanders again only due to bad luck with a crash, won LBL, 7th in Roubaix (a guy who weighed only 65kg!!!) and was the strongest rider in the Vuelta, leading to among other things the infamous day on Navalmoral. Then he finished with the elite front group in a hilly world championships riding with two broken wrists. All this while missing a chunk of the season to a doping investigation.
It was pants on head *** how strong he was. Years later his Cofidis teammates explain why: He and his friend Phillippe Gaumont went much further than anyone else dared with drug use. They reaped a huge performance advantage from it but their bodies couldn't take it. A year later they couldn't perform anymore and now they're both dead of heart attacks at young ages.
GuyIncognito said:
Every single case on this list caused disbelief. Every one staggered me. Every performance here made me audibly ask "WTF?" Be warned, all this is from memory so many of the dates/etc are likely to be wrong
Deep breath
Basso - From top 10 GC contender at Fassa to Armstrong's main contender at CSC, to that ridiculous thing at the 2006 Giro. Even Simoni felt compelled to call him an "alien". When else have you seen such a thing? 2000 VAM at Monte Bondone? Nearly tying Ullrich in a 50km flat windy TT? Beating Zabriskie? Come on now...
Jose Enrique Gutierrez - 1,88m 78kg and from one day to the next suddenly climbing with Simoni.
Riis - From bland basic domestique for the flat stages at 28 to Tour winner at 32 with the highest w/kg ever recoded on a mountain finish
Pecharroman - Anonymous for years until suddenly he's toying with a talented field at the Euskal, then dropping even Heras at Catalunya (boredly commenting that he expected an even bigger gap!) and then disappears forever.
Kashechkin - Vinokourov's pet project to create a clone of himself
Rumsas - He would've beaten Armstrong in that Tour TT if his bike hadn't broken. Hell, he won a monument.
Perdiguero - Oh boy that Volta Catalunya he won. Bunch sprint? Win. TT? Win. Mountains? Win. Up to that week he'd been about the level Jesus Herrada is now, a good unspectacular rider.
Mayo - That April 2003 to June 2004 period was hilarious to watch. Then Armstrong called the UCI to rein it in and never again...
Aitor Gonzalez - Yet another sudden transformation
Colom - Suddenly discovered new powers in his 30s, beating Contador on the climbs. If he hadn't tested positive he'd have probably contended for GTs
Wiggins - At 29 he goes from a nobody who couldn't climb a speedbump and celebrated finishing only a few minutes behind in TTs, to outclimbing the best and winning TTs by minutes. Pull the other one.
Leipheimer - Another one who suddenly realized he had talent at nearly 30
Hincapie - From sprinter to classics rider to climber? What? Kelly and Jalabert did it before, but they actually had quite some climbing talent as youngsters. Hincapie was a pure sprinter, whole different kettle of fish.
Horner - Not good enough to hold a pro contract in europe at 28, wins the Vuelta at 42? Doing the same time up Angliru in the wet that peak Contador did in the dry?
Kim Andersen - The record holder for positive tests. In a time when almost nobody tested positive and nobody cared and the suspension was usually "you're relegated to the back of the bunch on that stage, try not to dope for the next stage". Not even booted from the race, much less suspended. In those days this guy tested positive so many times that eventually he was given a long term suspension. In the eighties!
The entire 2008 CSF Navigare squad - Sella climbing like Pantani to come back from 24 minutes down on GC to 2 before the TT. Priamo winning a stage. Baliani in every break
Chioccioli - Career bottom of top 10 climber is suddenly Charly Gaul, winning queen stages solo from 50km out, winning 60km flat TTs
Furlan - That 3 year stretch there was something else. Then he fell off a cliff
Gabriele Colombo - Still the fastest ascent of the Poggio ever. Even with a tailwind modern riders can't come close. Also promptly fell off a cliff like most on this list
Frattini - Went on a tear for a brief time, then faded to obscurity
Ugrumov - Another career bottom of the top 10 climber, 8th in the Giro here, 9th in the Vuelta there. Then in his 30s he's suddenly putting Indurain against the ropes. Not just the 93 Giro, but especially the 94 Tour's Alps where he does exactly what Sella would do 15 years later. He put over 3 minutes into Indurain in the Morzine time trial after days of being in breaks, what on earth?
Pascal Herve - That day on the Izoard would've been funny if it wasn't so shocking. He wasn't a bad climber, but was more of a punchy guy for short climbs. We're all riveted watching Pantani vs Armstrong when 36 year old Pascal catches them, goes "oh hi there" and drops them.....drops....Pantani and Armstrong....in the mountains
Dufaux @ Romandie 98 - Braking for corners going up a mountain isn't even remotely normal
Since we're discussing Festina. I know they're an easy target, but I remember a mountain stage in 97 when the group was down to 15 riders or so and every Festina was still there except for the one who was sick, Laukka, who until then had been climbing with the top 5 (another one hit wonder who later didn't do anything elsewhere)
The Saunier squad over a few years (Cobo, de la Fuente, Zaballa, Piepoli, Riccò, Perdiguero, Gil, Marchante) - Where do I even begin?
Froome - Just edges out Pecharroman and Armstrong for the most ridiculous transformation the sport has ever seen. This out of contract guy who Sky are letting go because he is simply terrible at everything, suddenly becomes the best rider on the planet. Just overnight. From getting dropped by the sprinters at the Tour of Poland to thrashing everyone at the Vuelta. A modern miracle, no doubt.
Marcelino García - 1998 early season. Never to be repeated.
Sergey Kolesnikov - Those 2006 results, eh? For 6 months as a 19/20 year old, wins basically every race, then does nothing for the rest of his career.
Mikhail Ignatiev - Like Kolesnikov and to a lesser extent Moreno Moser, Ignatiev started his pro career like a bat out of hell. Was rumoured to be called to attention over his blood values. Fell off a proverbial cliff.
Francesco Ginanni - See Ignatiev. This one took arguably even further.
W52 these last few years (Veloso, Alarcon) - Put them in the World Tour, they'd win the whole thing
Nozal - If in 2008 he was caught on EPO and wasn't riding for toffee, what on earth was he on in 2003??? He won the TT by 1m20s on some of the world's best who were loaded with EPO.
Fran Perez - That 2003 early season was funny as hell. Went down the wrong road and lost the win? No problem, just drop everyone again the next day
De Bonis - All day in the break. Gets caught. Drops them again to win. Truly Gerolsteiner's test mule for the 2008 Tour
Santi Perez - From mediocre climber to best climber in the race to winning a fast flat TT. Screw drugs, how is it even physically possible?
LA MSS circa 2003 and again in 2008 - Shades of Gewiss 94. The way they toyed with the field in Asturias
Europcar 2011 (Kern, Voeckler) - Kern did nothing before or since in his career, but that Dauphiné he won in the mountains and finished 6th. Also won the french TT championships by 2 minutes on Péraud, Coppel, etc. Then Voeckler would've won the Tour if not for a tactical blunder on Alpe d'Huez.
Gerolsteiner - Schumacher and Kohl may have been obvious, but Fothen was the prototypical fast donkey and let's not ignore Lang
Gonchar 2006 Tour - As ridiculous as Landis was, he couldn't come within a minute of Gonchar in either TT
Wesemann Amstel 2006 and Cancellara Worlds 2009 - Two guys unsuited to such hilly courses who both were hilariously strong those days and both threw away easy wins by being tactically stupid. Those two performances were so far beyond believable I can only laugh
Cancellara July 2008 - "Oh look, I can suddenly climb mountains for the first and only time never to be repeated". Dropping climbers on the Croix-de-fer...
Jaskula - 3rd place in a stacked Tour de France field. Unrepeated again.
Halupczok - Barely any results in the amateur ranks until the time the first guys get on EPO. Suddenly he's the best amateur in the world and world champion. Turns pro. Immediately up there fighting for the Giro win as a neo-pro when he suddenly and mysteriously quits the race. Returns to anonymity. By the end of the season he's retired at age 22. Shortly after that he's dead of a heart attack
The entire Cofidis team at the 98 Tour - If Casagrande hadn't crashed out he'd have won that Tour. Bet on it. He was flying. Rinero and Julich weren't nearly on the same level and finished 5th and 3rd. Bobby freaking Julich finished 3rd. Hell, a nothing rider like Rinero still has the record for the fastest climb of the Tourmalet.
Luttenberger - Another shooting star. Wins the Tour de Suisse, 5th at the Tour de France, then....nothing. Just another one in the line of Carrera's Pantani clones like Zaina or Poulnikov
Garcia Quesada - Prototypical Fuentes special
Mercatone Uno - Especially at the 98 Giro final TT. Sprinters and climbers beating the specialists in a TT. That day Pantani really went all out on the EPO and screw the consequences. Then came the blood sample switching story
Murilo Fischer - Look at his 2005. Just look at it.
Jonathan Tiernan-Locke - The question "Where did Pecharroman go?" was finally answered. He was reborn as an englishman with an unpleasant personality
Lotto 2011 - Vdb takes the only win of his career, Vanendert not only learns to climb but wins a major Tdf mountain stage, Gilbert has the most ridiculous season anyone's likely to see anytime soon which he of course won't ever come close to repeating
Clement L'Hottelerie - That one early season madness. Then nothing. Then positive.
Johnny Hoogerland - He was all over every kind of race. Then was tested 3 times in a week, realized they were on to him, and never performed again. As the team doctor later said, he was pumped to the gills on doses obscenely large even for that team.
Andrey Zintchenko - Mediocre roleur, then wins 3 stages in one Vuelta, mountains included.
Melchor Mauri - After several grand tours with a best finish of 71st he won the Vuelta by gaining minutes on Indurain during TTs and defending in the mountains. Then the rest of the world caught up and he never threatened a GT podium again. Let that sink in, gaining minutes in Indurain in TTs. Indurain won the Tour de France that year.
Mauro Gianetti - At age 30 his palmares is nothing. Then EPO comes along and along with several other good results he ends his career with an Amstel win and a Liége win plus a Worlds silver. His career and life almost ended by doping with too much PFC and being rushed to the hospital with a flatlining heartbeat
Andrea Ferrigato - From mediocre he suddenly moves up about 5 levels in performance to win classics for half a season and almost win the World Cup based on that one season alone. Then at the end of the season the UCI institutes the 50% red blood cell limit and he goes back to being anonymous
Frank Vandenbroucke - In one season he won Het Volk, would've won Paris-Nice if not for of a wind split, 2nd in Flanders again only due to bad luck with a crash, won LBL, 7th in Roubaix (a guy who weighed only 65kg!!!) and was the strongest rider in the Vuelta, leading to among other things the infamous day on Navalmoral. Then he finished with the elite front group in a hilly world championships riding with two broken wrists. All this while missing a chunk of the season to a doping investigation.
It was pants on head *** how strong he was. Years later his Cofidis teammates explain why: He and his friend Phillippe Gaumont went much further than anyone else dared with drug use. They reaped a huge performance advantage from it but their bodies couldn't take it. A year later they couldn't perform anymore and now they're both dead of heart attacks at young ages.
Re: Re:
Nice writeup!
Brought back memories I had forgotten lol.
Thank you for taking the time!
GuyIncognito said:
Nice writeup!
Brought back memories I had forgotten lol.
Thank you for taking the time!
Great write up @GuyIncognito!
I have to say I think that there are also great performances that arent drugged up esp among some of the younger riders of today
I dont think everyone dopes but those that do are obvious
I have to say I think that there are also great performances that arent drugged up esp among some of the younger riders of today
I dont think everyone dopes but those that do are obvious
masking_agent said:
Is there a story on Pouly? Always found his appearance on the Asia Tour a bit funny.
Nice list GuyIncognito!!!
I would only question that Leipheimer was not a sudden transformation at 30. We know he was a doper but he started way earlier than that with his performances.
I would only question that Leipheimer was not a sudden transformation at 30. We know he was a doper but he started way earlier than that with his performances.
Inspired by GuyIncognito's marvellous list above...
A very promising youth rider, Maurizio Fondriest failed to really become a world beating champion, except when he did by accident because Bauer took out Criq. He was super consistent but not so often a winner and then suddenly, after returning to Italy:
1987: 2 victories
1988: 7 victories
1989: 5 victories
1990: 5 victories
1991: 5 victories
1992: 3 victories
1993: 26 victories
1994: 9 victories
1995: 4 victories
1996: 3 victories
1997: 1 victory
1998: 0 victories
The MSR win that season is probably the standout with a jump on the Poggio worthy of the times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njt10asmgog
Presumably after '93 everyone else got mad then got even.
A very promising youth rider, Maurizio Fondriest failed to really become a world beating champion, except when he did by accident because Bauer took out Criq. He was super consistent but not so often a winner and then suddenly, after returning to Italy:
1987: 2 victories
1988: 7 victories
1989: 5 victories
1990: 5 victories
1991: 5 victories
1992: 3 victories
1993: 26 victories
1994: 9 victories
1995: 4 victories
1996: 3 victories
1997: 1 victory
1998: 0 victories
The MSR win that season is probably the standout with a jump on the Poggio worthy of the times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njt10asmgog
Presumably after '93 everyone else got mad then got even.
L'arriviste said:
21 not counting criteriums, but yeah he was clearly on a different level, doing something else until everyone later caught up.
He'd started working with Ferrari who said that year Fondriest could win the Giro if he could recover well. "His w/kg is enough". He couldn't recover so faded until finishing 8th. His only GT top 10 it should be noted. His best until then was 15 at the Tour de France. But he was mostly a classics star, not a stage racer.
His 21 wins that year are:
1 Stage @ Vuelta Andalucia
1 Stage @ Settimana Siciliana
Overall + 2 Stages @ Tirreno-Adriatico
Milano-San Remo
Flèche Wallonne
Overall + 3 Stages @ Giro del Trentino
1 Stage @ Giro d'Italia
Overall+3 Stages @ GP du Midi Libre
Züri Metzgete
Giro dell'Emilia
GP Telekom 2 man TT with Gianni Bugno
2 Stages @ Volta Catalunya
Also a few non-uci wins at national races:
Firenze-Pistoia TT
2 Stages+Overall @ Escalada Montjuic
Also ranked #1 in the World Cup for the 2nd time in his career
A ridiculous season by any standards, good shout.
Yes great list but Pantani's Giro Tour double of 1998 deserves greater emphasis. To me nothing better since.
Re:
Really? Pantani's double deserves greater emphesis than someone like Armstrong and 7 tours? That's interesting and I'm not disputing what you said, I agree that Pantani's performance in 98 is spectacularly doped, but he had much more talent than Armstrong ever had, no?Cookster15 said:
Re: Re:
Climbing talent, sure. Pantani's ITT performances were so over the top in the '98 Giro it was comical.Irondan said:
Lance won Worlds at age 21 with only "low-octane" doping (if anyone believes that), he had loads of talent.
Re: Re:
How can you tell? His first full pro season was in 1993 and his first GT was in 1995. In that era all the top riders were doping heavily. How could he show GC talent clean (or at least less doped). He was only 24 when he was diagnosed with cancer.Amazinmets87 said:
Re: Re:
Of course I think Pantani had more talent than Armstrong. But the thread title is "most memorable doped performance" and I posted based upon this not the OP's comment in his first paragraph which to me is a little contradictory.
Pantani's 1998 double and particularly his spectacular attack on the stage 15 to Les Deux Alpes to completely demoralise Jan Ullrich was for me hands down the most memorable doped performance I have ever seen. Of course I, like all cycling fans who have been following this sport since 1987 have seen many others but they don't stick in my memory.
Pantani of 1998 backing up from the Giro against defending champ Ullrich was the David Vs Goliath. It was memorable and amazing to watch. He fired a warning shot on Plateau de Beille but I could hardly believe what occurred in stage 15. Marco made the entire peloton, full of dopers, look second rate. Armstrong's 7 Tours and the might of US Postal are to me forgettable. Absolutely for me this was the most memorable doped performance even if it was not the most blatant out of nowhere as being discussed elsewhere in this thread.
Irondan said:
Of course I think Pantani had more talent than Armstrong. But the thread title is "most memorable doped performance" and I posted based upon this not the OP's comment in his first paragraph which to me is a little contradictory.
Pantani's 1998 double and particularly his spectacular attack on the stage 15 to Les Deux Alpes to completely demoralise Jan Ullrich was for me hands down the most memorable doped performance I have ever seen. Of course I, like all cycling fans who have been following this sport since 1987 have seen many others but they don't stick in my memory.
Pantani of 1998 backing up from the Giro against defending champ Ullrich was the David Vs Goliath. It was memorable and amazing to watch. He fired a warning shot on Plateau de Beille but I could hardly believe what occurred in stage 15. Marco made the entire peloton, full of dopers, look second rate. Armstrong's 7 Tours and the might of US Postal are to me forgettable. Absolutely for me this was the most memorable doped performance even if it was not the most blatant out of nowhere as being discussed elsewhere in this thread.
Re:
Lance's coach in those years was a former USA olympic coach with links to doping. I wouldn't call that low octane.
zlev11 said:
Lance's coach in those years was a former USA olympic coach with links to doping. I wouldn't call that low octane.
Re: Re:
I actually read it as "most memorably doped performance". With the racing performance not mattering that much, but focus being on the doping "performance"; someone doping in a memorably - stupid - way. I'm talking giving yourself a blood transfusion and almost killing yourself, or whatever the heck it was Ricco did...
Cookster15 said:
I actually read it as "most memorably doped performance". With the racing performance not mattering that much, but focus being on the doping "performance"; someone doping in a memorably - stupid - way. I'm talking giving yourself a blood transfusion and almost killing yourself, or whatever the heck it was Ricco did...
Re:
His double was only successful due to Ullrich's spectacular blow-up in rainy conditions. Winning 7 consecutive Tours with only one real challenge faced (2003) during those 7 years has to beat anything Pantani did.
Cookster15 said:
His double was only successful due to Ullrich's spectacular blow-up in rainy conditions. Winning 7 consecutive Tours with only one real challenge faced (2003) during those 7 years has to beat anything Pantani did.
Pantani, Ricco, the chicken, etc. Landis still takes the cake for me when I think of a doped ride.
Re: Re:
He was doping just as heavily and displayed no climbing ability in spite of a 55+ hematocritParker said:
GuyIncognito: super classy post. Best thing I've read in these parts for ages.
What really stands out is, as you point out, the 'come from nowhere and then fall off a cliff'. And the in between, absolutely smashing the best of the best.
What really stands out is, as you point out, the 'come from nowhere and then fall off a cliff'. And the in between, absolutely smashing the best of the best.
Re: Re:
Disagree. Pantani was memorable because he was an underdog. Armstrong wasn't. Did you actually watch that stage in 1998? Yes Ullrich blew but nobody else was on the same planet either plus he attacked on the harder side of the Galibier, was re joined in the valley at foot of Les Deux Alpes then put another 2 minutes on Rodolfo Massi in 10km. Bobby Julich? +5 minutes 43!! Yep no more memorable doped performance for me.
Angliru said:
Disagree. Pantani was memorable because he was an underdog. Armstrong wasn't. Did you actually watch that stage in 1998? Yes Ullrich blew but nobody else was on the same planet either plus he attacked on the harder side of the Galibier, was re joined in the valley at foot of Les Deux Alpes then put another 2 minutes on Rodolfo Massi in 10km. Bobby Julich? +5 minutes 43!! Yep no more memorable doped performance for me.
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