Motor doping thread

Page 148 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
I've done some basic tests with a tiny magnet and an ipad mini. Results work far more than 10mm away just fine. Mulitplying the number of magnets to something realisitic of outputting 50-100w is unfortunatly not available to me, but it shows the basic functionality of the Ipads built in EMF detection.

UCI Motorised Doping Detection Simulation Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi8Blez3zOo

UCI Motorised Doping Detection Simulation Inside Hub
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQc4ZcuL2bI

UCI Motorised Doping Detection Simulation Inside Rim
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwDKq5rDaaA
 
Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

ontheroad said:
adamfo said:
ontheroad said:
The UCI said the following in relation to bike checks:

"Our training always emphasises that the scanner is for initial controls and that bikes must be dismantled should any suspicion of the presence of a motor or any other hidden device be indicated," the UCI press release states.

Then Froome said this yesterday:

They have been dismantling the bikes for years now looking for motors, physically looking inside the bikes now. In my opinion, I can't even get onto the start line of a race and believe that someone is using a motor.


The UCI state that the bikes are only dismantled if suspicions are aroused after the initial Ipad checks. Froome then says they have been dismantling them for years. The inference is that a lot of bikes have failed the initial checks in order for them to have been dismantled yet there are no pictures of bikes ever been stripped down.
You are wrong. There are lots of photos of endoscopes being used and bottom brackets removed. I remember a couple of years ago at the TdF, teams including Sky, had all of their TT bikes taken away after the team TT stage and dismantled.
Have to confess I have yet to see any pictures, however we do know that during last years tour they refused to weigh the wheel's despite concern's of the French police.

From last year:

However, in the past the UCI has been accused of refusing French police requests to carry out alternative methods of detection, such as weighing wheels separately to whole bikes.

“We know the normal weight of a bike. With the motor of the Hungarian engineer [Varjas], the weight of the back wheel is heavier,” the source stated then.

“We asked the UCI to verify, to check. They told us that it is too difficult to take off the wheel. That was very funny, because it only takes five seconds to take off the wheel. That is all.”
Correct and the reason Lappartient is calling for the dismantling of bikes to combat motor doping.

#cyclisme L'ancien président de la @FFCyclisme David #Lappartient : "Il faut saisir et démonter les vélos"
 
Re:

deValtos said:
I find it really hard to imagine this going on as of right now in the world tour peloton.

It seems way to risky relative to doping. Only way to properly detect doping is tests which can be controlled etc blah blah

But this, I mean one crash and a broken bike spilling across the road in front of the fans? Surely a random dude can pass near the bikes with his own detector, (xray possibly?) at the start and end of the stage. Heck team buses get their bikes stolen every year, I imagine one motor bike would get leaked.

I'm sure all the technology is there (or will be soonish) but they are one crash away from losing everything ... I just don't see it right now.
You think putting a small motor in a bike is less risky than pumping your body full of different products you dont know?
 
Jan 4, 2013
236
0
0
Re:

samhocking said:
Notice how Varjas doesn't show the stators required to be in the seat stay and chain stays. Just as with the hub, they would be pretty huge. You would need seat stays much bigger than on a typical frame used in the peloton.
I noticed he touched his nose when taking about the rim device. Body language that is a tell for doubt or untruths. In short, it isn't a workable system in the pro-peleton because you are adding weight in the worst possible area and in the place it is the most easily detectable. Carbon fibre has little or no effect on magnetic fields.
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
deValtos said:
I find it really hard to imagine this going on as of right now in the world tour peloton.

It seems way to risky relative to doping. Only way to properly detect doping is tests which can be controlled etc blah blah

But this, I mean one crash and a broken bike spilling across the road in front of the fans? Surely a random dude can pass near the bikes with his own detector, (xray possibly?) at the start and end of the stage. Heck team buses get their bikes stolen every year, I imagine one motor bike would get leaked.

I'm sure all the technology is there (or will be soonish) but they are one crash away from losing everything ... I just don't see it right now.
You think putting a small motor in a bike is less risky than pumping your body full of different products you dont know?
Fully agree. And judging by the 2/3 ratio of false readings and the speed that the UCI inspectors scan a bike, I think everyone in cycling knows that these tests are mearly PR to be conducted out in the open. Much the way Cookson has run his Presidency, via press release and selfies on Twitter.
 
Re: Re:

adamfo said:
samhocking said:
Notice how Varjas doesn't show the stators required to be in the seat stay and chain stays. Just as with the hub, they would be pretty huge. You would need seat stays much bigger than on a typical frame used in the peloton.
I noticed he touched his nose when taking about the rim device. Body language that is a tell for doubt or untruths. In short, it isn't a workable system in the pro-peleton because you are adding weight in the worst possible area and in the place it is the most easily detectable. Carbon fibre has little or no effect on magnetic fields.
In the Stade 2 Documentary, Varjas stated a second piece of carbon fiber wrapped around the motor would make it undetectable with the iPad method. Seeing as Stade 2 got hold of the iPad it’s not hard to imagine the teams have one as well to do their own pre-check check. Much like using saline to bring down your hematocrit prior to the UCI health tests in the 90s. The documentary also stated that they spoke to a team mechanic and he couldn’t remember the last time a bike was dismantled by the UCI.
 
Jan 4, 2013
236
0
0
Re: Re:

thehog said:
adamfo said:
samhocking said:
Notice how Varjas doesn't show the stators required to be in the seat stay and chain stays. Just as with the hub, they would be pretty huge. You would need seat stays much bigger than on a typical frame used in the peloton.
I noticed he touched his nose when taking about the rim device. Body language that is a tell for doubt or untruths. In short, it isn't a workable system in the pro-peleton because you are adding weight in the worst possible area and in the place it is the most easily detectable. Carbon fibre has little or no effect on magnetic fields.
In the Stade 2 Documentary, Varjas stated a second piece of carbon fiber wrapped around the motor would make it undetectable with the iPad method. Seeing as Stade 2 got hold of the iPad it’s not hard to imagine the teams have one as well to do their own pre-check check. Much like using saline to bring down your hematocrit prior to the UCI health tests in the 90s. The documentary also stated that they spoke to a team mechanic and he couldn’t remember the last time a bike was dismantled by the UCI.
Have a watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi8Blez3zOo&t=0s

Varjas certainly conned the guy making the documentary using classic misdirection
 
I think the documentary makers are the ones looking like they don't know what they're doing. I'm amazed the German testing lab is happy to be associated with a documentary that thinks anything shown is remotely believable. The case which is a standard one, they think has been modified with a magnet when it's nowhere near the EMF sensor on an ipad mini and Griffin put it in the case so you can clip a pen to it out in the field. 2. They believe Varjas saying a motor is invisible to EMF detection after two layers of carbon which is simply not correct. The hub motor shown working is as big as a house and the rim motor is missing half of it (the bike frame) and despite cut open, fails to show a single magnet inside and a attempts to scan what is only ever going to result in an undetectable basic wireless charging circuit and its battery when using an EMF device.
 
Re:

samhocking said:
I think the documentary makers are the ones looking like they don't know what they're doing. I'm amazed the German testing lab is happy to be associated with a documentary that thinks anything shown is remotely believable. The case which is a standard one, they think has been modified with a magnet when it's nowhere near the EMF sensor on an ipad mini and Griffin put it in the case so you can clip a pen to it out in the field. 2. They believe Varjas saying a motor is invisible to EMF detection after two layers of carbon which is simply not correct. The hub motor shown working is as big as a house and the rim motor is missing half of it (the bike frame) and despite cut open, fails to show a single magnet inside and a attempts to scan what is only ever going to result in an undetectable basic wireless charging circuit and its battery when using an EMF device.
Every time I see someone interview Varjas on TV, I'm reminded of this

 
Frankly I think most of these arguments, discussions, and documentaries don't accomplish anything meaningful.

All you have to do is look at a video of Cancellara going up a 19% cobbled section at 25km/h.

If you're not convinced by that then no amount of evidence will ever convince you.
 
Re:

DanielSong39 said:
Frankly I think most of these arguments, discussions, and documentaries don't accomplish anything meaningful.

All you have to do is look at a video of Cancellara going up a 19% cobbled section at 25km/h.

If you're not convinced by that then no amount of evidence will ever convince you.
Or Froome on Ventoux, that was not only blatant but hilarious :lol:
 
Re: Re:

thehog said:
DanielSong39 said:
Frankly I think most of these arguments, discussions, and documentaries don't accomplish anything meaningful.

All you have to do is look at a video of Cancellara going up a 19% cobbled section at 25km/h.

If you're not convinced by that then no amount of evidence will ever convince you.
Or Froome on Ventoux, that was not only blatant but hilarious :lol:
Froome on Ventoux has my vote as well, or Froome just about anywhere for that matter. Heck, Froome going up a mountain and not having to hold onto a motorbike seems suspicious to me.
 
Re: Re:

thehog said:
adamfo said:
samhocking said:
Notice how Varjas doesn't show the stators required to be in the seat stay and chain stays. Just as with the hub, they would be pretty huge. You would need seat stays much bigger than on a typical frame used in the peloton.
I noticed he touched his nose when taking about the rim device. Body language that is a tell for doubt or untruths. In short, it isn't a workable system in the pro-peleton because you are adding weight in the worst possible area and in the place it is the most easily detectable. Carbon fibre has little or no effect on magnetic fields.
In the Stade 2 Documentary, Varjas stated a second piece of carbon fiber wrapped around the motor would make it undetectable with the iPad method. Seeing as Stade 2 got hold of the iPad it’s not hard to imagine the teams have one as well to do their own pre-check check. Much like using saline to bring down your hematocrit prior to the UCI health tests in the 90s. The documentary also stated that they spoke to a team mechanic and he couldn’t remember the last time a bike was dismantled by the UCI.
But Froomey told us that they have been dismantling the bikes for years!

"The most important thing for me is that they have been doing the checks. They have been dismantling the bikes for years now looking for motors, physically looking inside the bikes now. In my opinion, I can't even get onto the start line of a race and believe that someone is using a motor.
 
Jan 30, 2016
1,048
0
4,480
The UCI has finally published a photo of a confiscated bike from Femke van den Driessche.
http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/News/18/36/65/UCI17D0410_rp1_Neutral.pdf
On the last page you can see her Wilier. Its the bike she was using at the koppenbergcross (1st November 2015) where her performance allready raised suspicion.
It is not the bike she used in the race so it has probably been confiscated from the pits.

The bike she was riding at the world championships was her old Bianchi with a modified downtube and with a Wilier paint scheme. It was this bike that everybody was talking about.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sTNeeHmq6FUJ:https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2016/02/06/wie-gelooft-haar-1585633-a30545+&cd=1&hl=nl&ct=clnk&gl=nl
Maar, laat Kaptheijns nu weten, vanaf de wereldbekerwedstrijd in Lignières-en-Berry (17 januari dit jaar), waar Van den Driessche dertiende wordt, valt haar collega’s iets op aan het frame van haar fiets. Kaptheijns: „De buis aan de onderkant was een stuk dikker dan normaal, daar ging het over in het peloton. En het merk waar ze op rijdt, Wilier, heeft maar één soort frame. Ik weet dat haar vader thuis aan carbonreparatie doet. Iedereen had vanaf dat moment al een raar gevoel over die fiets van Femke.”

Kaptheijns is telling now, from the World Cup match in Lignières-en-Berry (January 17 this year), where Van den Driessche becomes thirteenth, her colleagues notice something about the frame of her bike. Kaptheijns: "The tube at the bottom was a lot thicker than normal, it was discussed in the peloton. And the brand she is riding, Wilier, has only one kind of frame. I know her father is doing home carbon repair. Everyone had a strange feeling about Femke's bike from that moment on. "


http://www.1limburg.nl/stultiens-ontving-foto-van-verdacht-frame-met-motortje?context=section-2
"Eén van haar ploeggenoten liet mij een foto van haar 'gedopeerde' frame zien en het was duidelijk dat de onderbuis van de betrapte fiets breder was dan haar andere fietsen. Precies op de plek waar het motortje bleek te zitten", zegt de Meijelse renster.

"One of her teammates showed me a picture of her 'doped' frame and it was clear that the downtube of the caught bicycle was wider than her other bikes, exactly at the place where the engine turned out to be", says the rider from Meijel (Stultiens)


So Stultiens is saying the UCI confiscated the bike she was riding and not the bike from the pits. However the recent photo from the microlab report show the bike that was probably confiscated from her pits.

Than we have Sanne Cant sending in photos to the UCI, most likely the photos from the ex Bianchi.
viewtopic.php?p=1989670#p1989670

So the UCI got tipped about the strange bike Femke was using and they manage to detect a motor in another bike of her with their magic ipad.

Anyway maybe both bikes got confiscated as the modified Bianchi disappeared during the race:
viewtopic.php?p=1861440#p1861440
 
Re: Re:

ontheroad said:
thehog said:
adamfo said:
samhocking said:
Notice how Varjas doesn't show the stators required to be in the seat stay and chain stays. Just as with the hub, they would be pretty huge. You would need seat stays much bigger than on a typical frame used in the peloton.
I noticed he touched his nose when taking about the rim device. Body language that is a tell for doubt or untruths. In short, it isn't a workable system in the pro-peleton because you are adding weight in the worst possible area and in the place it is the most easily detectable. Carbon fibre has little or no effect on magnetic fields.
In the Stade 2 Documentary, Varjas stated a second piece of carbon fiber wrapped around the motor would make it undetectable with the iPad method. Seeing as Stade 2 got hold of the iPad it’s not hard to imagine the teams have one as well to do their own pre-check check. Much like using saline to bring down your hematocrit prior to the UCI health tests in the 90s. The documentary also stated that they spoke to a team mechanic and he couldn’t remember the last time a bike was dismantled by the UCI.
But Froomey told us that they have been dismantling the bikes for years!

"The most important thing for me is that they have been doing the checks. They have been dismantling the bikes for years now looking for motors, physically looking inside the bikes now. In my opinion, I can't even get onto the start line of a race and believe that someone is using a motor.

Froome is a walking lie, the man who doesn't now what ketones are, who would never use drugs except for emergency TUEs and asthma pumps and god knows what else, we can trust the Dawg. And of course who can forget his Badzhilla story :lol:
 
Sep 3, 2017
914
0
0
UCI with cookson is doing nothing against motor , so Cookson as to go but i think that a motor scandal will kill pro cycling , so Froome will escape this and is pretty sad , but a lot of people are hating team sky and froome this tells you a lot
 
Re:

samhocking said:
If the app finds a high reading or is false-negative the bike then gets taken apart ........
Every single video we have shows the coms waving the ipad around in a manner that if we could have simultaneous sight of the screen would show a series of readings varying readings. The video clearly showed that when held correctly the steel on the bolt holding the front chnager clamp ring in place would create a reading. Only a slow deliberate movement of the sensor up the seat tube with clos inspection of the screen was shown to enable the detector to discern the different between the em signature of bolt external to the carbon tube and the carbon tube, bolt and internal motor. The UCI are not detecting anything. It is a PR exercise.


samhocking said:
I think the documentary makers are the ones looking like they don't know what they're doing. I'm amazed the German testing lab is happy to be associated with a documentary that thinks anything shown is remotely believable. The case which is a standard one, they think has been modified with a magnet when it's nowhere near the EMF sensor on an ipad mini and Griffin put it in the case so you can clip a pen to it out in the field. 2. They believe Varjas saying a motor is invisible to EMF detection after two layers of carbon which is simply not correct. The hub motor shown working is as big as a house and the rim motor is missing half of it (the bike frame) and despite cut open, fails to show a single magnet inside and a attempts to scan what is only ever going to result in an undetectable basic wireless charging circuit and its battery when using an EMF device.
Sam you do not understand what they are doing or how electro-magents work. A permanent magnet is not needed. Vrajas was just showing the cutaway rim so that the morons did not say that he had planted super magents in it. Nor do you understand how the detector works and that it is looking for a back emf to create a change of current in a coil.

By all means over-egg the pudding. The hub motor we were shown was not as big as a house but generated way more than the motors that will produce a race winning change. Coaches would be overjoyed if they could get an extra 20W of peak energy transfer out of a mature, elite-level client after 12 months of guidance.

Cookson said he would move anti-doping to an independent body. He then kept the resolution of the biggest problem to effect the sport, totally in house. If the stories are true that Barfield is bent and has been tipping off teams or there is money exchanging hands for info on when and where or who then this is an excellent scam to keep in house. Even if the purpose is not to use it as an income generating scam but just "control" detection, it works perfectly.

After all, let's see just who would benefit from it being released that a top rider has been using a motor. If JV is struggling to get a sponsor now in the "clean era - with decent honest anglo-saxons at long last winning in a historically murky sport", what would be his chances if it were to be shown that motors were in widespread use ? Many teams would fold. Many races would die. Cookson would be left looking like a fool, his legacy destroyed. Riders and support staff would be made redundant and those left in the shrunk sport would see their wages cut. This is the classic "lose-lose" and that is the fundamental reason why these clowns can wave tablets around like a tea-towel in a bar and pretend.

Look, endoscope i are a bunch of chancers, too tight to even rent an office in a suite and hire in a secretary to front themselves up. Only a lunatic would place an order for a critical piece of detection equipment with them - if the pupose of the purchase was to actually detect the fraud. It is the classic scam centered not on the users, but on the most senior elements of the management of the sport.
 
Re: Re:

Sam you do not understand what they are doing or how electro-magents work. A permanent magnet is not needed. Vrajas was just showing the cutaway rim so that the morons did not say that he had planted super magents in it. Nor do you understand how the detector works and that it is looking for a back emf to create a change of current in a coil.

By all means over-egg the pudding. The hub motor we were shown was not as big as a house but generated way more than the motors that will produce a race winning change. Coaches would be overjoyed if they could get an extra 20W of peak energy transfer out of a mature, elite-level client after 12 months of guidance.

Cookson said he would move anti-doping to an independent body. He then kept the resolution of the biggest problem to effect the sport, totally in house. If the stories are true that Barfield is bent and has been tipping off teams or there is money exchanging hands for info on when and where or who then this is an excellent scam to keep in house. Even if the purpose is not to use it as an income generating scam but just "control" detection, it works perfectly.

After all, let's see just who would benefit from it being released that a top rider has been using a motor. If JV is struggling to get a sponsor now in the "clean era - with decent honest anglo-saxons at long last winning in a historically murky sport", what would be his chances if it were to be shown that motors were in widespread use ? Many teams would fold. Many races would die. Cookson would be left looking like a fool, his legacy destroyed. Riders and support staff would be made redundant and those left in the shrunk sport would see their wages cut. This is the classic "lose-lose" and that is the fundamental reason why these clowns can wave tablets around like a tea-towel in a bar and pretend.

Look, endoscope i are a bunch of chancers, too tight to even rent an office in a suite and hire in a secretary to front themselves up. Only a lunatic would place an order for a critical piece of detection equipment with them - if the pupose of the purchase was to actually detect the fraud. It is the classic scam centered not on the users, but on the most senior elements of the management of the sport.
What he said.
 
Re: Re:

Freddythefrog said:
Sam you do not understand what they are doing or how electro-magents work. A permanent magnet is not needed. Vrajas was just showing the cutaway rim so that the morons did not say that he had planted super magents in it.
Could you please explain how these electro-magnets turn a wheel without the use of permanent magnets?

And if Varjas only cut away the rim to show nothing was hidden, why did he feel the need to keep his other wheel covered by bubble wrap? And why would he hide 'super magnets' if he wanted to show a negative reading on the tablet anyway - they would cause a positive reading?

Freddythefrog said:
By all means over-egg the pudding. The hub motor we were shown was not as big as a house but generated way more than the motors that will produce a race winning change.
Were you shown a hub motor? Where was this in the video. You were shown a wheel spinning around too fast to see anything and a wheel hidden by bubble wrap. Varjas told you it was a hub motor, but made sure not to show you it clearly. And you didn't question it.

Varjas tells us lots and shows us nothing.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS