Jacques de Molay said:ray j willings said:http://velonews.competitor.com/2016/02/news/cancellara-says-motors-in-bikes-are-an-old-story_394476“If it’s true or not, I have no idea,” he said![]()
Yeah, I wonder if it's true? I wonder if maybe the UCI didn't actually find a motor inside a frame at a World Championship race. Maybe they were unsure about it but decided to release an official statement confirming the discovery just for the fun of it. Or maybe they did it just to incite Luca Guercilena. Or maybe it didn't happen at all. Maybe the UCI just released the official statement confirming the find to give the media something to talk about.
"If it's true or not..."![]()
They tested some of the girls' bikes without warning at the Giro Donne a few years ago, Fabiana Luperini got kicked out the race a couple of stages before the end for having an underweight bike.Tienus said:I'm sure the UCI warns riders and teams when they are testing bikes. Even tough the UCI pretends to be searching they do not want to find anything.
Why did they only confiscate one out of three bikes from Femke?
Impossible. Motors couldn't have been used in the past. Here's why:jyl said:Of course, motor use might have been more brazen in previous years, when there was no checking program at all.
Libertine Seguros said:They tested some of the girls' bikes without warning at the Giro Donne a few years ago, Fabiana Luperini got kicked out the race a couple of stages before the end for having an underweight bike.Tienus said:I'm sure the UCI warns riders and teams when they are testing bikes. Even tough the UCI pretends to be searching they do not want to find anything.
Why did they only confiscate one out of three bikes from Femke?
Tienus said:jyl said:hfer07 said:So let me get this straight:
THE WHOLE PELOTON KNOWS ABOUT THE MECHANICAL DOPING-EVEN TO CLAIM ITS USE GOES BACK YEARS -MAYBE DECADES........AND YET THE UCI HAS NOT TAKEN IT SERIOUSLY, NOR HAS CREATED A TASK FORCE TO DETECT IT..............
got to love the double standard and moral values among the best riders when asked about doping - whether mechanical or chemical : All they know is happening, but yet nobody comes forward.....................
I'm going to say it once- if there is solid proof that a massive use of mechanical doping in the peloton- lets say 60% of all pro riders- I'd be so mad to the point of stop watching Cycling permanently
I think motors are currently being used, but to only a small extent, in top level racing. Because the UCI has been seizing and checking bikes in WT races for about a year now, and has not found a motor. If motors were in 60% of bikes, they'd have been found before now.
My guess is that at present, riders with motor doped bikes are using them carefully, when the potential reward is large and the chances of being caught are low. Before last weekend, the chances of being caught in CX or women's road were low since UCI wasn't checking those. I'd guess the chances of being caught in non-WT men's road might still be low. Race situations where you can change to a clean bike mid-race. Or when you need to perform big but are not planning to finish anywhere near the podium (super domestique).
The obvious counter argument is that the UCI's bike checks could all be a sham, they are finding motors but not reporting them, or maybe the bikes go into those tents and don't get checked at all, the commissaires and team mechanics just drink coffee for an hour and pretend they were removing seatposts. But in that case, why would the UCI even bother with the sham?. There was no big clamour for motor doping checks (this and similar forums don't count), and the UCI got mostly ridicule when it started the checks.
Of course, motor use might have been more brazen in previous years, when there was no checking program at all.
I'm sure the UCI warns riders and teams when they are testing bikes. Even tough the UCI pretends to be searching they do not want to find anything.
Why did they only confiscate one out of three bikes from Femke?
Jacques de Molay said:Impossible. Motors couldn't have been used in the past. Here's why:jyl said:Of course, motor use might have been more brazen in previous years, when there was no checking program at all.
The technology didn't exist.
The motors would create too obvious of noise.
The added weight of a motor would negate any possible benefit.
It would be too obvious and therefore too easy to detect.
The risk of using a motor was too great.
No rider would want to suffer the inevitable ridicule cast upon them by the rest of the peloton.
It would require far too great a conspiracy, involving far too many people for it to be feasible.
There's no reasonable way to provide the required power to such a device.
A motor small enough to remain hidden would never produce enough wattage to be of any use.
Very smart people with apparent degrees in physics have told us that it's impossible.
Professional riders and their managers have openly scoffed at the very idea, proving that such a thing as mechanical doping is too far-fetched to be taken seriously.
There's never been any video evidence that such technology existed.
No one named Chris Boardman ever demonstrated to the UCI just how it could be done.
No one named Greg LeMond ever confirmed the existence of motorized bikes.
But that's just off the top of my head.
Any other reasons that we can be certain that mechanical doping hasn't been a part of pro cycling in the past?![]()
Yup. A year ago.jyl said:Do they warn before testing?. In some sense, sometimes - someone from the UCI had said in an interview they were going to be checking bikes with their new tool at the CX Worlds, so that sort of constitutes a generalized warning.
We are changing the way we test. All I can tell you is it’s based on magnetic resistance. There is a lot of work to be done. We’ve done our first trial and we have more trials in February. Its first outing, fingers crossed, will be the World Cyclocross Championships.
We’ll probably do our first test in women’s racing next year because we need to extend. We now have the ability to test more bikes more often.
dwyatt said:sniper said:no, not the bidon.luckyboy said:Can't speak Dutch, something about a bidon? Vivax makes a bidon battery.
Femke doesn't have a bidon in any of these videos though.
he confirms what we knew, namely that in femke's case the battery was hidden in the bottom of the frame.
Frame tubes are huge these days, should be pretty easy.
Conspriacy nut question of the days - did frame tubes get more oversized becuase teams wanted more space for batteries and motors.
I agree. 100%.jyl said:I appreciate the humor, and I agree that describes the opinion of the great majority of the pro cycling world before now. But some people did suspect motor doping was going on. And we have to include in that . . . the UCI. They started checking bikes for hidden motors, got broadly ridiculed for it, and now I think they should get some credit.
And to clarify that last point:Jacques de Molay said:Well, in fairness to the UCI, someone did detect it, no? And they have been x-raying and inspecting bikes at races, no? Does that constitute a "task force"? I don't know. But they do seem to be pursuing the matter. maybe it's all PR on their part, but I don't see how having x-ray machines at major races adds much credibility to the sport.
Based on parakeet-gate (yeah, I just went there) I'd say, yes, they thought they'd get away with it. And if not, they probably weren't all that concerned with the consequences. They seem like a despicable lot, devoid of a moral compass.Libertine Seguros said:Nothing, other than that Femke van den Driessche failed to connect the dots and none of her entourage were alert enough to realize either. Short memories? Didn't take the threat seriously? Just thought they'd get away with it? That's about all we might find out.
Libertine Seguros said:Nothing, other than that Femke van den Driessche failed to connect the dots and none of her entourage were alert enough to realize either. Short memories? Didn't take the threat seriously? Just thought they'd get away with it? That's about all we might find out.
I think that your use of the term 'a deer in the headlights' actually says a lot about the relatively sympathetic way you see her and would like others to. I can't imagine that if she had been a similarly aged male rider you would be putting forward an identical argument, or appealing to the same imagery.Libertine Seguros said:I describe Femke as a "deer in the headlights" in that interview not because she's female, but because how completely unequipped she seemed for dealing with the sudden burst of negative attention.
Overall, an awful lot of sympathy for a blatant cheat, much more than I have ever seen for any young guy who got busted for doping, which everybody seems to agree would have been a much lesser offence.She is "A 19-year old girl for crying out loud",
"it is the parent that deserves to take the biggest fall",
"I've dealt with such fathers. Somehow they are never banned, only their kids",
"Poor girl such mixed messages going to her",
"As for the young lady this is not her brain that's implemented this but a small network",
"She is not the brightest cookie",
"she doesn't come across as an intelligent girl at all...I honestly believe her influence in all this is rather small",
"I hope the girl will be ok and receive psychological help after this. She's young and i think she doesn't deserve a life ban if she says it all. All the people around her deserve though",
"Father seems like one of those super pushy parents that probably never did any sports or did, but was never good at it, and now is trying to live through his kids and any success they get...Depending on how far the cheating went with the girl, I'd say don't ban her for life."
"Seeing some of her interviews its obvious the girl is as dumb as a ton of bricks, id be surprised if her IQ crossed the 70 mark. Its all the dad's fault."
"Life-long ban is way too much. I'm not saying the two situations are the same, but I can't help but think of Genevieve Jeanson and her coach."
"like the delgados said, this is Genevieve Jeanson all over again. It just aint her boyfriend/husband/coach, its her dad...This is a child abuse just like Marc Dutroux",
"Father to me is a total disgrace...the possibility of a power over situation here seems all too real. Without excusing Femke, I do feel sad for her"
"The father just seems so super smug. Like a mafia member... At 19, she's more than old enough to realize what has transpired and the consequences, but not sure if she was capable of saying no to the pressure of cheating by her father."
"At 19, she's old enough to have understood the gravity of what she was doing and to face the consequences now, but it's only natural to pity someone when you see them like this"
"She shouldn't be left off the hook, but this is clearly not solely her idea. It requires a thorough investigation and her age should be a reason to go slightly easier on her."
"Its not just her dad, its her mechanic, brothers etc. She also grew up in an environment where her team, the Belgium national team and even the UCI seem not to concerned about cheating, as long as you dont get caught."
"They (meaning riders/ds/teams) will simply dismiss it as an isolated incident - some young girl cheating because of the pressure her father put on her."
"it is definitely child abuse. just not the corporeal kind, its psychological."
"I'd hate for a young girl (okay, young woman) to have her life ruined by an absurd mistake."
Libertine Seguros said:They tested some of the girls' bikes without warning at the Giro Donne a few years ago, Fabiana Luperini got kicked out the race a couple of stages before the end for having an underweight bike.Tienus said:I'm sure the UCI warns riders and teams when they are testing bikes. Even tough the UCI pretends to be searching they do not want to find anything.
Why did they only confiscate one out of three bikes from Femke?
well- we well know the 1% stepping atop the podium use doping-whether chemical or mechanical.Jacques de Molay said:hfer07 said:So let me get this straight:
THE WHOLE PELOTON KNOWS ABOUT THE MECHANICAL DOPING-EVEN TO CLAIM ITS USE GOES BACK YEARS -MAYBE DECADES........AND YET THE UCI HAS NOT TAKEN IT SERIOUSLY, NOR HAS CREATED A TASK FORCE TO DETECT IT..............Jacques de Molay said:Well, in fairness to the UCI, someone did detect it, no? And they have been x-raying and inspecting bikes at races, no? Does that constitute a "task force"? I don't know. But they do seem to be pursuing the matter. maybe it's all PR on their part, but I don't see how having x-ray machines at major races adds much credibility to the sport.
I reckon the x-ray testing came "after" the Italian press blew the whistle on Cancellara back in 2010 because it was "too suspicious" what he did in P-R there - I grant that- BUT not because the very UCI wanted to confront the matter based on rumors and investigation - so from then forward is basically a "random" practice- which it could well be warned in advance, so the DCs and mechanics can act accordingly.
hfer07 said:got to love the double standard and moral values among the best riders when asked about doping - whether mechanical or chemical : All they know is happening, but yet nobody comes forwardJacques de Molay said:That's the kicker, right there. We have seasoned pros now talking openly about this, as if it's such old news that it's beneath them to even discuss it. We have the most gifted cyclist who ever lived telling us that he personally warned the UCI about it, so great were his concerns. But as recently as just a few days ago, anyone mentioning the subject was dismissed as nothing more than a basement-dwelling internet troll. Funny how that works.
indeed
hfer07 said:I'm going to say it once- if there is solid proof that a massive use of mechanical doping in the peloton- lets say 60% of all pro riders- I'd be so mad to the point of stop watching Cycling permanentlyJacques de Molay said:60%?!?! That's mighty generous.![]()
What if it turns out to be only 1%, and they've stood atop the podium?![]()
You seem pretty much in agreement with me on this front. You can stick a fork in her, she's done. She can't come back regardless of what ban they slap on her, the ban itself means nothing. The fine is probably of more relevance. No team is going to want her, no race organizer will want her there, very few sponsors will have any interest, she'll be watched like a hawk if she does race, she's a pariah among her fellow riders (look, when even Riccò can get in cheap shots, you're really saying something) and she's not going to be popular with fans either. Even if she gets off on a technicality (and even if her rather sitcom-esque story for how it came to be is true) nobody is ever going to trust her in a bike race again. Her career is over, at least from a meaningful perspective. And she already knows it, too.Jacques de Molay said:Based on parakeet-gate (yeah, I just went there) I'd say, yes, they thought they'd get away with it. And if not, they probably weren't all that concerned with the consequences. They seem like a despicable lot, devoid of a moral compass.
Thanks, dad!
The ringleader should never be allowed near a bike race again. That goes for all the other enablers in this sordid tale.
As for young Femke herself: Even if given a reduced ban (due to cooperation, her age, etc) I can't imagine why any team, anywhere would ever want to be associated with her. This is where the sport has a least a small chance to redeem itself. If only short bans are put into place, it's up to the teams and race organizers to simply refuse the participation of these people. It's now or never on the issue of mechanical doping.
Maybe, maybe she has a chance to race in the future. It should be easy enough to thoroughly inspect every bike in her race collection. But would it be worth the added burden of having to police her so closely at every outing?
Either way, her father and his entourage should never be allowed near the sport again. And I see absolute no reason why the pet store theft incident shouldn't play into that decision. It speaks volumes to his character (or obvious lack thereof).
WildspokeJoe said:This will be interesting. Will be interested to see how talk Nico Van Muylder is and if he fits the bike.
Not for nothing but cycling has the best doping answers: Vanishing twin, tainted meat, Drunk on Jack Daniels, Too much sex,
No, I don't think so. I think it's more a matter of people wanting to finally put the emphasis on those who hide in the shadows while the individual athlete gets hung out to dry. If Femke takes the brunt of the punishment herself, then we're right back to where we started. Everyone in the chain of events needs to be removed from any participation in the sport whatsoever (including even attending as a "fan").Robert21 said:Overall, an awful lot of sympathy for a blatant cheat, much more than I have ever seen for any young guy who got busted for doping, which everybody seems to agree would have been a much lesser offence.
Double standards or what?
Libertine Seguros said:she's a pariah among her fellow riders (look, when even Riccò can get in cheap shots, you're really saying something)
I'll admit, I hadn't fully considered that aspect of it. People are complaining (and rightfully so) about fan interference as it is. If Femke were to race again at any time in the near future, it could very well create a dangerous situation for all involved.Libertine Seguros said:and she's not going to be popular with fans either.
They probably scanned all her bikes, one came up suspicious, they took that one away to disassemble. She was still racing at the time, right? Taking all her bikes would have been the same as yanking her from the race, before there is any proof.