Motor doping thread

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Oct 16, 2010
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Anaconda said:
I have already brought up the name Jeanson in a previous post so suffice it to say I feel like the age/family situation of the woman should be considered not so much for the sporting penalty, but the wrath of the public. She was not in this alone, that much is certain.

I agree with the leak theory. She was a sacrificial lamb (and she/support team not very smart to get caught). Events in sports past have left me very cynical and small fishes only getting caught always makes me a bit uneasy.

In the case of Hesjedal's weird spinning bike the UCI waited until the day after to look at the bike. Declaring it cleared means nothing.

On the subject of the leak I also wonder how the information was leaked. Interesting at the Giro they took bikes into a closed tent to inspect. Respected privacy. Where was Femkes bike checked. How many saw the inspection. Was it the same protocol as used for the pro WT men?

If you are caught for chemical doping there is usually protection of the name until the sanction is confirmed.

If the UCI found a motor in a WT mens bike would they have blurted it to the media like this?

She was not given the chance to give her story and allow for a proper investigation before public exposure.

Femke has been publicly humiliated and shamed 1st, investigation 2nd.

She was not caught on the bike. There missing information. eg was the battery charged?

The UCI has a rule now in the books, but it seems more suited to WT Pros and teams. The financial penalty is probably out of reach for a 19 y/o woman in CX discipline. I am going to be interested in how the UCI investigation is conducted and reported.

Cheating is cheating and I don't feel any more strongly disappointed by motor or chemical doping. I seems to be in the minority. People are numb to doping now, but to me its just as big a threat to the authenticity of sport and probably easier to conceal than mechanical cheating. Often difficult to prosecute and very costly to try to police. Checking bikes for motors at an event is not nearly as expensive as running a bio passport program.
excellent post/points (although i personally do prefer oldschool doping to motorization)
and as Tienus asked multiple times: why weren't her other bikes (including the one she actually raced on) checked? It all smells darn iffy. Unrusprisingly the press arent asking these questions.

Here's a presser wrt Giro 2015 bike testing: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-checks-bikes-of-contador-hesjedal-and-gilbert-for-motors-at-giro-ditalia/
As you read it, it's one eyebrowraiser after the other, and the whole strategy behind the testing remains totally opaque.
More to the point, to only check the finish bikes of MTFs is to ignore the reality of how motors could be of help particulalry on the flat , the rainy and windy parts, where GC riders would otherwise burn valuable energy to stay up front and not get caught out by crosswinds and splits.
The riders could switch to a normal (and lighter!) bike for the final climb where you arrive fresh as a daisy.

So everybody's (including l'Equipe and some tv commentators) have been noticing Contador's dodgy bike switches prior to the final climb.. and what do UCI do? They test only the bike he brings across the finish line.
That's either *** dumb, or deliberately not wanting to catch anybody.

As UCI themselves are still in charge of the testing it means all results from at least 2010 onwards may have been rigged by motorization, GTs and Monuments alike.
 
May 14, 2010
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Re: Re:

sniper said:
Anaconda said:
I have already brought up the name Jeanson in a previous post so suffice it to say I feel like the age/family situation of the woman should be considered not so much for the sporting penalty, but the wrath of the public. She was not in this alone, that much is certain.

I agree with the leak theory. She was a sacrificial lamb (and she/support team not very smart to get caught). Events in sports past have left me very cynical and small fishes only getting caught always makes me a bit uneasy.

In the case of Hesjedal's weird spinning bike the UCI waited until the day after to look at the bike. Declaring it cleared means nothing.

On the subject of the leak I also wonder how the information was leaked. Interesting at the Giro they took bikes into a closed tent to inspect. Respected privacy. Where was Femkes bike checked. How many saw the inspection. Was it the same protocol as used for the pro WT men?

If you are caught for chemical doping there is usually protection of the name until the sanction is confirmed.

If the UCI found a motor in a WT mens bike would they have blurted it to the media like this?

She was not given the chance to give her story and allow for a proper investigation before public exposure.

Femke has been publicly humiliated and shamed 1st, investigation 2nd.

She was not caught on the bike. There missing information. eg was the battery charged?

The UCI has a rule now in the books, but it seems more suited to WT Pros and teams. The financial penalty is probably out of reach for a 19 y/o woman in CX discipline. I am going to be interested in how the UCI investigation is conducted and reported.

Cheating is cheating and I don't feel any more strongly disappointed by motor or chemical doping. I seems to be in the minority. People are numb to doping now, but to me its just as big a threat to the authenticity of sport and probably easier to conceal than mechanical cheating. Often difficult to prosecute and very costly to try to police. Checking bikes for motors at an event is not nearly as expensive as running a bio passport program.
excellent post/points (although i personally do prefer oldschool doping to motorization)
and as Tienus asked multiple times: why weren't her other bikes (including the one she actually raced on) checked? It all smells darn iffy. Unrusprisingly the press arent asking these questions.

Here's a presser wrt Giro 2015 bike testing: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-checks-bikes-of-contador-hesjedal-and-gilbert-for-motors-at-giro-ditalia/
As you read it, it's one eyebrowraiser after the other, and the whole strategy behind the testing remains totally opaque.
More to the point, to only check the finish bikes of MTFs is to ignore the reality of how motors could be of help particulalry on the flat , the rainy and windy parts, where GC riders would otherwise burn valuable energy to stay up front and not get caught out by crosswinds and splits.
The riders could switch to a normal (and lighter!) bike for the final climb where you arrive fresh as a daisy.

So everybody's (including l'Equipe and some tv commentators) have been noticing Contador's dodgy bike switches prior to the final climb.. and what do UCI do? They test only the bike he brings across the finish line.
That's either **** dumb, or deliberately not wanting to catch anybody.

As UCI themselves are still in charge of the testing it means all results from at least 2010 onwards may have been rigged by motorization, GTs and Monuments alike.

+1 to both of you. :)
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

soslow said:
Questions to answer:
Did she actually ride the motorized bike or was it a spare in the pit?
Is she the same size as the friend? If I jumped on my friend's bike my knees would hit me in the chin.
If I sell a friend one of my bikes and he puts about a 1000 or more $s, pounds, euros into getting a motor retrofit into it wouldn't he brag about it?
If you go on rides with this friend and suddenly you can't keep up even tho you are on the national team would you start to wonder?
To me it is weird this was found in cyclocross where the pedals need to nuanced to keep the back wheel from spinning out and half the time you are carrying the bike, so a motor is just extra weight.
I always figured it would be more likely to be found in a steady power race like a time trial or on one of the big sprinter dude's bike on a mountain stage where he is just trying to make the time cut and isn't really a factor in the race so doesn't need to worry about a bike inspection.
good points.

Saying 'look at the MTFs' is missing a trick.

Lets say you are a climber and it is the first week of the tour. There is one of those crappy early days of the tour. Stupid breakaway, Frodo dopo wants a stage win and so everything is being raced at top speed. It's wet, there are crosswinds, there are splits, there are crashes.

You've got poor bike handling, shitty race sense, you have two choices: ride at the front all the way (tiring), or sit a bit further back and risk getting spat out if caught in a crash or split.

Or lets say it is a later stage in the race. It's a long day in the mountains. A couple of Cat 1s and an HC before an MTF. Either you or your rivals are going to ride hard all day tomorrow. The aim is going to be to have your support burnt off, or to burn off your support.

Think how much energy you'd save if you had a motor in your bike for the first 150km, think how much easier it is to ride at the front early in a GT with a motor in your bike, think how much easier it is to chase down a split with a motor in your bike.

EPO etc will get you ready for the final MTF when you want to burn everyone up, a motor will get you there in good shape.

So light motors can be useful uphill (cancellara 2010 Muur, Froome 2013 Ventoux), but definitely also on the flat. And teamleaders will benefit if the watercarriers have motors too.
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
So everybody's (including l'Equipe and some tv commentators) have been noticing Contador's dodgy bike switches prior to the final climb.. and what do UCI do? They test only the bike he brings across the finish line.
That's either **** dumb, or deliberately not wanting to catch anybody.
Do you know they don't test it before the start? No, you don't.
Funny, a few years ago doping trolls like you were sure he was cheating with bikes under the weight limit. Now all of you have completely discarded that idea and you're completely sure it has to do with mechanical doping. How silly. I wonder what is next.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

laflo, calm down.
i don't know/care if contador used a motor.
i was talking about clever testing, or the lack thereof.
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
So everybody's (including l'Equipe and some tv commentators) have been noticing Contador's dodgy bike switches prior to the final climb.. and what do UCI do? They test only the bike he brings across the finish line.
That's either **** dumb, or deliberately not wanting to catch anybody.

No one wants to catch Contador. Biggest fraud in cycling.
 
Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
sniper said:
So everybody's (including l'Equipe and some tv commentators) have been noticing Contador's dodgy bike switches prior to the final climb.. and what do UCI do? They test only the bike he brings across the finish line.
That's either **** dumb, or deliberately not wanting to catch anybody.

No one wants to catch any Big Fish. Biggest fraud in cycling.
FIFY
 
Jan 30, 2016
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Interview with some dutch riders:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZCXLru3T9A

cliffs:
-Lots of rumours the last couple of weeks espescially from the Belgium camp.
-Several strange things are being noticed as an example Maud kaptheijns mentioned Femke did not change bike in Hoogerheide (sticky mud conditions).
-Its being noticed that this unknown girl is suddenly very fast in certain conditions.

This video confirms my thoughts which I posted allready in this thread:
-Rudy de Bie should have been aware of these rumours.
-The UCI should have checked the bike Femke was actually riding during the world championship race.

I also noticed during suspiscious races she did not change bike. I had a quick browse through the Hoogerheide race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8-ETigh5Wc
The conditions are not ideal for an e-bike. Femke moves up from around 25th to finish 15th. Around 45:50 she sprints uphill over the finish line. Crossing the line she again makes a strange movement with her right hand. I think she presses a button with her thumb meanwhile the rest of her fingers move away from the shifting levers, simular to the finishes I posted before.

At Hoogerheide Femke was riding the same bike as in Leuven and more important: Its the bike she was riding during the world championships. The bike the UCI did not bother to confisgate or check.
 
May 14, 2010
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Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Maxiton said:
King Boonen said:
. . . Contador. Biggest fraud in cycling.

Froome, Wigguns, the late, great Horner, and a host of others would beg to differ.

Then check the records.

Duly noted. The records would indicate that the aforementioned greats and their performances have far less credibility than Contador, by any reasonable measure. Not to mention seven empty spaces in the winner's box at the TdF. But that's history and we're cleans now.
 
Jul 7, 2012
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Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught

sniper said:
Think how much energy you'd save if you had a motor in your bike for the first 150km...
In the old days, in the early part of a race, the star of the team would just get his team-mates to push him along every time the road went up, in order to save energy. I have a report of the 1977 Paris-Roubaix, which the UK 'domestic pro' team, Holdsworth-Campagnolo rode. This says that one of their riders, Keith Lambert, became quite upset because Freddy Maertens was been pushed up all the hills by his team mates. The surviving Holdsworth riders came in 35 minutes down and so weren't allowed to ride around the track!
 
Oct 16, 2010
19,912
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Re:

Tienus said:
Interview with some dutch riders:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZCXLru3T9A

cliffs:
-Lots of rumours the last couple of weeks espescially from the Belgium camp.
-Several strange things are being noticed as an example Maud kaptheijns mentioned Femke did not change bike in Hoogerheide (sticky mud conditions).
-Its being noticed that this unknown girl is suddenly very fast in certain conditions.

This video confirms my thoughts which I posted allready in this thread:
-Rudy de Bie should have been aware of these rumours.
-The UCI should have checked the bike Femke was actually riding during the world championship race.

I also noticed during suspiscious races she did not change bike. I had a quick browse through the Hoogerheide race:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8-ETigh5Wc
The conditions are not ideal for an e-bike. Femke moves up from around 25th to finish 15th. Around 45:50 she sprints uphill over the finish line. Crossing the line she again makes a strange movement with her right hand. I think she presses a button with her thumb meanwhile the rest of her fingers move away from the shifting levers, simular to the finishes I posted before.

At Hoogerheide Femke was riding the same bike as in Leuven and more important: Its the bike she was riding during the world championships. The bike the UCI did not bother to confisgate or check.
great work.

nuff said about cookson trying to take credit for busting femke.
That's the UCI president deliberately misleading the fans, press, stakeholders, everybody, whilst allowing for cheating in the higher echelons of proicycling.
 
Re: Re:

Maxiton said:
King Boonen said:
Maxiton said:
King Boonen said:
. . . Contador. Biggest fraud in cycling.

Froome, Wigguns, the late, great Horner, and a host of others would beg to differ.

Then check the records.

Duly noted. The records would indicate that the aforementioned greats and their performances have far less credibility than Contador, by any reasonable measure. Not to mention seven empty spaces in the winner's box at the TdF. But that's history and we're cleans now.

The aforementioned "greats" have no where near the palmares of the current biggest fraud in cycling. The seven empty spaces are due to someone who is no longer in cycling. Contador has no credibility as far as I'm concerned and I would not be at all surprised if he has also been involved in motor-doping.
 
May 14, 2010
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Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Maxiton said:
King Boonen said:
Maxiton said:
King Boonen said:
. . . Contador. Biggest fraud in cycling.

Froome, Wigguns, the late, great Horner, and a host of others would beg to differ.

Then check the records.

Duly noted. The records would indicate that the aforementioned greats and their performances have far less credibility than Contador, by any reasonable measure. Not to mention seven empty spaces in the winner's box at the TdF. But that's history and we're cleans now.

The aforementioned "greats" have no where near the palmares of the current biggest fraud in cycling. The seven empty spaces are due to someone who is no longer in cycling. Contador has no credibility as far as I'm concerned and I would not be at all surprised if he has also been involved in motor-doping.

That's exactly the point, he actually has a palmares. He was an exceptional cyclist in youth and has been at or near the top since turning pro. Have all his teams been dodgy? Yes, it's a dodgy sport. But unlike his competitors he didn't come from nowhere, and actually looks like he belongs on a bike.

You know as well as I do that he would have never been popped for those three atoms of Clen in his blood had he not defied Armstrong - not to say that the Clen got there accidentally.

I too would not be surprised if he has been involved in motor-doping. If he wants to compete at the top he has to match his competitors cheat for cheat. That's just the way it is. All the more reason then to get motors out of cycling.
 
Re: Re:

Maxiton said:
That's exactly the point, he actually has a palmares. He was an exceptional cyclist in youth and has been at or near the top since turning pro. Have all his teams been dodgy? Yes, it's a dodgy sport. But unlike his competitors he didn't come from nowhere, and actually looks like he belongs on a bike.

You know as well as I do that he would have never been popped for those three atoms of Clen in his blood had he not defied Armstrong - not to say that the Clen got there accidentally.

I too would not be surprised if he has been involved in motor-doping. If he wants to compete at the top he has to match his competitors cheat for cheat. That's just the way it is. All the more reason then to get motors out of cycling.

This isn't the Contador thread and is moving away from the point I was trying to make so I'll respond there or the Sidebar thread.
 
May 14, 2010
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Re: Re:

King Boonen said:
Maxiton said:
That's exactly the point, he actually has a palmares. He was an exceptional cyclist in youth and has been at or near the top since turning pro. Have all his teams been dodgy? Yes, it's a dodgy sport. But unlike his competitors he didn't come from nowhere, and actually looks like he belongs on a bike.

You know as well as I do that he would have never been popped for those three atoms of Clen in his blood had he not defied Armstrong - not to say that the Clen got there accidentally.

I too would not be surprised if he has been involved in motor-doping. If he wants to compete at the top he has to match his competitors cheat for cheat. That's just the way it is. All the more reason then to get motors out of cycling.

This isn't the Contador thread and is moving away from the point I was trying to make so I'll respond there or the Sidebar thread.

Fair enough.