Motor doping thread

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Mar 13, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
wrinklyvet said:
Benotti69 said:
Hawkwood said:
Benotti69 said:
TeamGB and their special frames and special wheels all now points to mechanical doping.
Do you mean the `special wheels' by Mavic that the Australian track team was also using?
Keep believing.
Perhaps you think that when the Brits lose to the Aussies, Americans, Germans or whoever they are just soft-pedalling for appearances' sake. How do they decide who will lose on purpose, do you think? Draw straws? There's nothing like a good conspiracy theory, preferably the least credible one.

It always amazes me how people wont see the truth.

Cheating is an integral part of the sports culture. Just look at the sport and who is running it. All linked to cheating.

Expecting people to against that culture and win is ridiculous.

In case people have forgotten, they found a motor in a bike. As good as finding a rider injecting epo. Riders agents are talking about it now.

But hey, nope no evidence for 'real' fans. Sorry but sport has lots all its credibility and it will take a huge fire to cleanse it!
first principles

sport is about winning. first priority, second priority, first priority, first priority again, last priority, third priority, all in priority chronology order, you gotta win.

ofcourse there are other motives.

but within this motive, cheating, however you define it, doping, PEDs, all this version of cheating can take its hold on the infrastructure of sport. It is natural. Its human endeavour, they seek to win, and they seek to win at the expense of other factors. so folks will have this form of cheating.
 
May 14, 2010
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LaFlorecita said:
Maxiton said:
Rollthedice said:
Thing with mechanical doping is that if not caught on the spot you will NEVER be caught.

Chris Vrrrooome:

"I know my results will stand the test of time, that 10, 15 years down the line people won't say, 'Ah, so that was his secret'. There isn't a secret."

"But I feel there is now a need for winners of the Tour de France to go 10, 20 years and not be stripped of their yellow jerseys and their trophies, and that's where myself and Team Sky are at now."
Some enterprising journalist or fan or non-fan is going to show up roadside with a thermal imaging gun/camera. Then the joke is over.
If we start a crowd-funding campaign maybe a clinic member can do it :)
Good idea. :) An even better idea, though, for crowd-funding would be development of a thermal imaging app for cycling fans. :D
 
Does constantly looking at one's stem fit in this scenario?
If so how?

May be he is reading some thing about function of the motor
so to try to ride natural as possible

Watching the Froome Ventoux 2013 SRM HD video make me think
that his ungainly gait while riding is something to do with having his legs pushed
by the pedals.
The cadence goes right up while the camera is on JRod
https://youtu.be/usNpx2BOabE?t=1685
but the heart rate doesn't respond for about 10s then it raises from 154 up to 161 for a short while.
Isn't that some kind of polygraph signature?
:rolleyes:
 
Mar 11, 2009
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zigmeister said:
WillemS said:
The scanning has to be done at keys points in the race, as I very much doubt that the motors will generate noticeable heat from resistance when turned off. Of course, this might inspire riders to use the motor on parts that usually don't matter, to save the legs, so our anti-motor tactic will only decrease, but not eliminate, the effects of mechanical fraud, just as testing did with the effects of some pharmaceutical doping products.

Now, if we really want an army of clinicians reviewing the races, we could compare the heat imaging of non-motorized and motorized frames using relatively cheap thermal cameras. You can buy a relatively cheap, but pretty decent thermal imaging cameras for android (mini-usb connector) or iOS phones (lightning connector) for about €250.

That way, our crowdfunding could fund multiple cameras at multiple key points on a climb.
The commissaires can simply ride along a motorcycle, on the back as they do, and during the race, climbs etc..they can just roll down the side of the peloton with the thermal scanner looking for suspicious bikes.

Just like testing of EPO/blood dopers, once guys start to see this, it might not make them all stay away from mechanical doping, but you can imagine, if there were any bikes, they would vanish and never be ridden again.

What is worse than having a live thermal image of your bike during a race being broadcast to hundreds of thousands of viewers during big races? Ouch, if you get caught..how embarrassing, and of course, lifetime ban.

That would be the ultimate..."red" handed, pun intended for the thermal device scanner.
Where would this fit in with our current safety issues with motorbikes and cyclists? I can see if you roll up along a solo rider but along pack sounds both slightly unsafe and unreliable as to being able to pinpoint which bike is being imaged.
 
Apr 3, 2011
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Rollthedice said:
Thing with mechanical doping is that if not caught on the spot you will NEVER be caught.

Chris Vrrrooome:

"I know my results will stand the test of time, that 10, 15 years down the line people won't say, 'Ah, so that was his secret'. There isn't a secret."

"But I feel there is now a need for winners of the Tour de France to go 10, 20 years and not be stripped of their yellow jerseys and their trophies, and that's where myself and Team Sky are at now."
well, maybe that mythical "urine thrower" just wanted to refill his battery

http://www.gizmag.com/urine-battery/42866/
 
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CheckMyPecs said:
Glenn_Wilson said:
All of them. Notice that period at the end of them. Period.
Rubbish.
One almost has to be willfully ignorant in order to take that position today. What kind of cheating hasn't been tried, and by the top guys as well as the domestiqes? Masters racers even sell dope to other masters racers. Going outside of the rules has become an accepted part of "sport", top to bottom.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Hugh Januss said:
CheckMyPecs said:
Glenn_Wilson said:
All of them. Notice that period at the end of them. Period.
Rubbish.
One almost has to be willfully ignorant in order to take that position today. What kind of cheating hasn't been tried, and by the top guys as well as the domestiqes? Masters racers even sell dope to other masters racers. Going outside of the rules has become an accepted part of "sport", top to bottom.
Masters are the worst of the worst, Including some of the Tri community. I will not be surprised to find out that one of these Masters group Tri guys or gals are using motodope. They have the financial means to support the habit of gizmo's and gear.
 
May 14, 2010
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thehog said:
Rollthedice said:
Thing with mechanical doping is that if not caught on the spot you will NEVER be caught.

Chris Vrrrooome:

"I know my results will stand the test of time, that 10, 15 years down the line people won't say, 'Ah, so that was his secret'. There isn't a secret."

"But I feel there is now a need for winners of the Tour de France to go 10, 20 years and not be stripped of their yellow jerseys and their trophies, and that's where myself and Team Sky are at now."
Had the same thought. I don't think there could be anyway now, bar a time machine, to catch a motor doper. Unless there's some form of X-ray technology to use on older film footage, which would be highly doubtful.

Ventoux 2013 is probably the most suspicious motor doping we've seen, not sure that can be surpassed, even by Froome.

The answer lies in big data. Most people don't know just how powerful big data is, not only for predicting outcomes and behaviors, but also for determining when and how someone is, say, cheating. A lot of people scoffed sat Vayer with his data idea, but I believe he was on the right track. Given certain data and clever algorithms it will be possible in the near future to say with certainty who has cheated in winning recent Tours and how they did it. Froome et al. might think they're clever but they will end up being pariahs in sporting history, and the sport totally discredited.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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on Armstrong using a motor

are we idiots on here?

we have a member here who was Prance's bloody wrench.

Tex-Pat was lances mechanic.... jesus we are stupid
 
May 26, 2010
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Maxiton said:
thehog said:
Rollthedice said:
Thing with mechanical doping is that if not caught on the spot you will NEVER be caught.

Chris Vrrrooome:

"I know my results will stand the test of time, that 10, 15 years down the line people won't say, 'Ah, so that was his secret'. There isn't a secret."

"But I feel there is now a need for winners of the Tour de France to go 10, 20 years and not be stripped of their yellow jerseys and their trophies, and that's where myself and Team Sky are at now."
Had the same thought. I don't think there could be anyway now, bar a time machine, to catch a motor doper. Unless there's some form of X-ray technology to use on older film footage, which would be highly doubtful.

Ventoux 2013 is probably the most suspicious motor doping we've seen, not sure that can be surpassed, even by Froome.

The answer lies in big data. Most people don't know just how powerful big data is, not only for predicting outcomes and behaviors, but also for determining when and how someone is, say, cheating. A lot of people scoffed sat Vayer with his data idea, but I believe he was on the right track. Given certain data and clever algorithms it will be possible in the near future to say with certainty who has cheated in winning recent Tours and how they did it. Froome et al. might think they're clever but they will end up being pariahs in sporting history, and the sport totally discredited.
I think apart from some new fans who jumped aboard the TeamSky boat, not many people with a couple of brain cells believes performances are achieved on bread and water!

Everyone i know who doesn't watch the sport think it is a cesspit of doping!
 
Of course motos exist in the peleton, though you are missing the essential fact that UCI has no interest in catching it.

It would damage the sport, sponsors would drop out, media coverage of the most essential races might be dropped from Germany and etc.

At the end of the day, it's just a business!
 
Re: Re:

Maxiton said:
thehog said:
Rollthedice said:
Thing with mechanical doping is that if not caught on the spot you will NEVER be caught.

Chris Vrrrooome:

"I know my results will stand the test of time, that 10, 15 years down the line people won't say, 'Ah, so that was his secret'. There isn't a secret."

"But I feel there is now a need for winners of the Tour de France to go 10, 20 years and not be stripped of their yellow jerseys and their trophies, and that's where myself and Team Sky are at now."
Had the same thought. I don't think there could be anyway now, bar a time machine, to catch a motor doper. Unless there's some form of X-ray technology to use on older film footage, which would be highly doubtful.

Ventoux 2013 is probably the most suspicious motor doping we've seen, not sure that can be surpassed, even by Froome.

The answer lies in big data. Most people don't know just how powerful big data is, not only for predicting outcomes and behaviors, but also for determining when and how someone is, say, cheating. A lot of people scoffed sat Vayer with his data idea, but I believe he was on the right track. Given certain data and clever algorithms it will be possible in the near future to say with certainty who has cheated in winning recent Tours and how they did it. Froome et al. might think they're clever but they will end up being pariahs in sporting history, and the sport totally discredited.
I'm not wrong that the HR meter stopped recording during the recent Froome / Swart test?

Even more bizarre to the mystery of the Dawg.
 
Re:

TourOfSardinia said:
Does constantly looking at one's stem fit in this scenario?
If so how?

May be he is reading some thing about function of the motor
so to try to ride natural as possible

Watching the Froome Ventoux 2013 SRM HD video make me think
that his ungainly gait while riding is something to do with having his legs pushed
by the pedals.
The cadence goes right up while the camera is on JRod
https://youtu.be/usNpx2BOabE?t=1685
but the heart rate doesn't respond for about 10s then it raises from 154 up to 161 for a short while.
Isn't that some kind of polygraph signature?
:rolleyes:
It certainly looks a little odd.

FYI: your HR does't react immediately, it reacts to your body needing to get dirty air out and clean air in. But only going up 7 bpm for that effort is another odd thing in that clip.
 
May 14, 2010
5,303
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Re:

blackcat said:
on Armstrong using a motor

are we idiots on here?

we have a member here who was Prance's bloody wrench.

Tex-Pat was lances mechanic.... jesus we are stupid
Make a convincing case for a Tour winner (Froome) using a motor, and pretty soon people are seeing motors everywhere. Next, people will be saying Merckx used a motor.

Lance's high cadence is consistent with the benefits conferred by EPO and other O2-vector doping: this doping enabled him to use an otherwise unsustainable cadence in order to achieve the minimum RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion). In other words, he was leveraging his doped aerobic system.

Froome's cadence is a great deal higher, and in combination with other data, such as heart rate, is not consistent with human physiology, doped or otherwise.

We don't need Tex-Pat to figure this one out.
 
May 14, 2010
5,303
4
0
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
Maxiton said:
thehog said:
Rollthedice said:
Thing with mechanical doping is that if not caught on the spot you will NEVER be caught.

Chris Vrrrooome:

"I know my results will stand the test of time, that 10, 15 years down the line people won't say, 'Ah, so that was his secret'. There isn't a secret."

"But I feel there is now a need for winners of the Tour de France to go 10, 20 years and not be stripped of their yellow jerseys and their trophies, and that's where myself and Team Sky are at now."
Had the same thought. I don't think there could be anyway now, bar a time machine, to catch a motor doper. Unless there's some form of X-ray technology to use on older film footage, which would be highly doubtful.

Ventoux 2013 is probably the most suspicious motor doping we've seen, not sure that can be surpassed, even by Froome.

The answer lies in big data. Most people don't know just how powerful big data is, not only for predicting outcomes and behaviors, but also for determining when and how someone is, say, cheating. A lot of people scoffed sat Vayer with his data idea, but I believe he was on the right track. Given certain data and clever algorithms it will be possible in the near future to say with certainty who has cheated in winning recent Tours and how they did it. Froome et al. might think they're clever but they will end up being pariahs in sporting history, and the sport totally discredited.
I think apart from some new fans who jumped aboard the TeamSky boat, not many people with a couple of brain cells believes performances are achieved on bread and water!

Everyone i know who doesn't watch the sport think it is a cesspit of doping!
True. Very true. But there is a qualitative difference, even in the minds of naive onlookers, between doped athletes, on the one hand, and clowns with hidden motors on the other. It's the difference between the Olympics and World Wrestling Entertainment.
 
May 14, 2010
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markene2 said:
Of course motos exist in the peleton, though you are missing the essential fact that UCI has no interest in catching it.

It would damage the sport, sponsors would drop out, media coverage of the most essential races might be dropped from Germany and etc.

At the end of the day, it's just a business!
If you read this forum for very long you'll see that few here are missing anything, at least in terms of the corruption of the UCI and the nature of the sport.
 

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