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Motor doping thread

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May 19, 2015
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Re:

Pantani Attacks said:
Anyone else notice the sketchy alternation of hands around the bars towards the end? Screamed of pushing some sort of button/device to me.
Saw the same thing. But I have to rewatch it to find out. What we did there wasn't human. It was more bizarre than Cancellara's classics season in 2010.

Where are the thermal detectors when you need them?
 
Feb 28, 2010
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T_S_A_R said:
He has just been asked if it was planned.

He says it wasn't. Presumably that was the first time he had pedalled in that manner......

He said it wasn't planned, but he had a 54 ring put on in the morning for the descent. It probably wasn't the first time he'd pedalled like that, in one of the interviews he mentioned trying various things on descents when training with his team-mates.
 
Feb 28, 2010
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Re: Re:

LeindersGains said:
Pantani Attacks said:
Anyone else notice the sketchy alternation of hands around the bars towards the end? Screamed of pushing some sort of button/device to me.
Saw the same thing. But I have to rewatch it to find out. What we did there wasn't human. It was more bizarre than Cancellara's classics season in 2010.

Where are the thermal detectors when you need them?

Also bizarre that he gained time on the descent where a motor would have been of little use, but lost time on the flat where using a motor would have provided the most benefit. Also what `wasn't human' about it? The position is a common one, pedalling in that position apparently isn't novel, and the speeds he hit 80-90 KPH are easily achievable on a descent. When I was younger and a bit more flexible I could hit 81KPH on a local descent that's just 700m long.
 
Re: Re:

Hawkwood said:
LeindersGains said:
Pantani Attacks said:
Anyone else notice the sketchy alternation of hands around the bars towards the end? Screamed of pushing some sort of button/device to me.
Saw the same thing. But I have to rewatch it to find out. What we did there wasn't human. It was more bizarre than Cancellara's classics season in 2010.

Where are the thermal detectors when you need them?

Also bizarre that he gained time on the descent where a motor would have been of little use, but lost time on the flat where using a motor would have provided the most benefit. Also what `wasn't human' about it? The position is a common one, pedalling in that position apparently isn't novel, and the speeds he hit 80-90 KPH are easily achievable on a descent. When I was younger and a bit more flexible I could hit 81KPH on a local descent that's just 700m long.
And could you pedal at that speed? And in that awkward position? Even with a 54 t chainring I think it would not be possible to get any benefit. Just asking
 
Also bizarre that he gained time on the descent where a motor would have been of little use, but lost time on the flat where using a motor would have provided the most benefit.

What if he used he hub motor that puts out less watts than a spindle motor. It will increase your top speed when in aero tuck but does not produce enough power to hold of a chasing group. Its also nice that it can produce power when you are not pedalling.
If you doubt about the existence of such motors I suggest you watch the Hesjedal crash.
 
Feb 28, 2010
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Re: Re:

veganrob said:
Hawkwood said:
LeindersGains said:
Pantani Attacks said:
Anyone else notice the sketchy alternation of hands around the bars towards the end? Screamed of pushing some sort of button/device to me.
Saw the same thing. But I have to rewatch it to find out. What we did there wasn't human. It was more bizarre than Cancellara's classics season in 2010.

Where are the thermal detectors when you need them?

Also bizarre that he gained time on the descent where a motor would have been of little use, but lost time on the flat where using a motor would have provided the most benefit. Also what `wasn't human' about it? The position is a common one, pedalling in that position apparently isn't novel, and the speeds he hit 80-90 KPH are easily achievable on a descent. When I was younger and a bit more flexible I could hit 81KPH on a local descent that's just 700m long.
And could you pedal at that speed? And in that awkward position? Even with a 54 t chainring I think it would not be possible to get any benefit. Just asking

He was pedalling quite slowly, I think he got the main benefit from improved cornering, plus none of the chasing group taking charge of the chase down.
 
Feb 28, 2010
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Tienus said:
Also bizarre that he gained time on the descent where a motor would have been of little use, but lost time on the flat where using a motor would have provided the most benefit.

What if he used he hub motor that puts out less watts than a spindle motor. It will increase your top speed when in aero tuck but does not produce enough power to hold of a chasing group. Its also nice that it can produce power when you are not pedalling.
If you doubt about the existence of such motors I suggest you watch the Hesjedal crash.

I've watched the Hesjedal crash and those far more qualified than me suggest it is evidence of the sum total of nothing. As for your hub motor, please let's see a model or a drawing of one. Stade 2 couldn't show us one, but surely someone can if such a thing exists.

What I don't get is people using a pro going down hill at 80-90 KPH, in a very aero tuck, with some pedalling in a unusual position, as evidence of a motor. This wasn't that fast a descent, I've gone that speed on a descent and I wouldn't put my descending skills up there with the pros. Where Froome won was that the chasing group wasn't that keen on chasing, oh and I think he's improved his cornering.
 
Feb 28, 2010
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Re: Re:

veganrob said:
Hawkwood said:
LeindersGains said:
Pantani Attacks said:
Anyone else notice the sketchy alternation of hands around the bars towards the end? Screamed of pushing some sort of button/device to me.
Saw the same thing. But I have to rewatch it to find out. What we did there wasn't human. It was more bizarre than Cancellara's classics season in 2010.

Where are the thermal detectors when you need them?

Also bizarre that he gained time on the descent where a motor would have been of little use, but lost time on the flat where using a motor would have provided the most benefit. Also what `wasn't human' about it? The position is a common one, pedalling in that position apparently isn't novel, and the speeds he hit 80-90 KPH are easily achievable on a descent. When I was younger and a bit more flexible I could hit 81KPH on a local descent that's just 700m long.
And could you pedal at that speed? And in that awkward position? Even with a 54 t chainring I think it would not be possible to get any benefit. Just asking

Well there's some footage of a 6 or 7 year old kid using the same position. I'm going to give the position a try, but my really fast descending days are 15 years ago and more in the past!
 
Re: Re:

veganrob said:
Hawkwood said:
LeindersGains said:
Pantani Attacks said:
Anyone else notice the sketchy alternation of hands around the bars towards the end? Screamed of pushing some sort of button/device to me.
Saw the same thing. But I have to rewatch it to find out. What we did there wasn't human. It was more bizarre than Cancellara's classics season in 2010.

Where are the thermal detectors when you need them?

Also bizarre that he gained time on the descent where a motor would have been of little use, but lost time on the flat where using a motor would have provided the most benefit. Also what `wasn't human' about it? The position is a common one, pedalling in that position apparently isn't novel, and the speeds he hit 80-90 KPH are easily achievable on a descent. When I was younger and a bit more flexible I could hit 81KPH on a local descent that's just 700m long.
And could you pedal at that speed? And in that awkward position? Even with a 54 t chainring I think it would not be possible to get any benefit. Just asking

I'm no rockstar descender but I've used that position and been able to predal at those speeds before, the position is not that awkward at all and looks pretty normal with a rider who isn't so awkward looking on the bike like Froome is. Mohoric can make it look pretty smooth https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gwV3YUlZSxI
 
Oct 16, 2010
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So Brailsford says "Froome has had the most bike checks", and next minute the headlines read "Froome has had the most bike checks".

Man, I give up.
 
May 26, 2009
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sniper said:
So Brailsford says "Froome has had the most bike checks", and next minute the headlines read "Froome has had the most bike checks".

Man, I give up.


Lance also had the most tests, go figure.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Re: Re:

BYOP88 said:
sniper said:
So Brailsford says "Froome has had the most bike checks", and next minute the headlines read "Froome has had the most bike checks".

Man, I give up.
Lance also had the most tests, go figure.
Amazing, innit.
Lance's tricks and PR strategies are still up to date. Goes to show literally nothing has changed since he got busted.
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
BYOP88 said:
sniper said:
So Brailsford says "Froome has had the most bike checks", and next minute the headlines read "Froome has had the most bike checks".

Man, I give up.
Lance also had the most tests, go figure.
Amazing, innit.
Lance's tricks and PR strategies are still up to date. Goes to show literally nothing has changed since he got busted.

Come on, the UCI sent them an email for being the most cooperative team with the testers. Nothing to see here!

Interesting that according to Cycling News it was a British (unnamed) journalist who brought this up. A plant perhaps?
 
Re:

sniper said:
So Brailsford says "Froome has had the most bike checks", and next minute the headlines read "Froome has had the most bike checks".

Man, I give up.

You can't get the UCI to release information on doping sanctions but they write love letters to Sky :lol:

Maybe Sky were CC'd on the Typhoon email?
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

Mayo from Mayo said:
sniper said:
BYOP88 said:
sniper said:
So Brailsford says "Froome has had the most bike checks", and next minute the headlines read "Froome has had the most bike checks".

Man, I give up.
Lance also had the most tests, go figure.
Amazing, innit.
Lance's tricks and PR strategies are still up to date. Goes to show literally nothing has changed since he got busted.

Come on, the UCI sent them an email for being the most cooperative team with the testers. Nothing to see here!

Interesting that according to Cycling News it was a British (unnamed) journalist who brought this up. A plant perhaps?

When the UCI sends stuff out like that it stinks.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Re: Re:

Hawkwood said:
Also bizarre that he gained time on the descent where a motor would have been of little use, but lost time on the flat where using a motor would have provided the most benefit. Also what `wasn't human' about it? The position is a common one, pedalling in that position apparently isn't novel, and the speeds he hit 80-90 KPH are easily achievable on a descent. When I was younger and a bit more flexible I could hit 81KPH on a local descent that's just 700m long.

ceteris paribus.

compare like-to-like.

your point has not necessarily proven the threshold LIKE to the evidence like.

are we talking about the Ski Jumper?

if we are, seems to me there is a rational explanation on why he can bomb a descent, I bet he can take better lines in a downhill slalom in skiing too


my like to like is.
the same descent and flat, with the same frame and bike setup and different bike. We have the heuristic example of the current bike.
 
May 26, 2010
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I would like to see ARD/Heppelt or someone turn up pretending to be a team machanic with a bike with a motor in it to get tested to see if the testing works.

All we see is some hold a tablet near a bike. What does that prove? Even the x-ray testing in the tent, no one gets to see what it is they do?

It all stinks.
 
According to Varjas you can make the hub motor undetectable for the UCI device.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/19/sports/cycling/with-a-discreet-motor-doping-the-bike-instead-of-the-cyclist.html
In an interview on Monday, Varjas said that his crank-assist devices could produce more than 250 watts, the amount of power a professional rider might typically average during a four-hour race. The smaller hub-assist motors, which he makes only for custom orders, typically produce only about 25 watts, he said, and require the rider to be able to maintain a high pedaling rate as is the case with all professionals. Even a 25-watt boost would be significant during a professional race.

Varjas said his system was nearly silent and light enough to keep a bike at the cycling union’s minimum weight.

“If you have this system, you can stay with the group, but nobody hears it, nobody sees it, nobody knows about it,” he said of the devices, which cost 10,000 to 25,000 euros (about $11,300 to about $28,200), depending on features.

While Varjas said that some professionals and teams used the motors for training — sometimes as a substitute for pacing at high speeds behind a motorcycle — he said that he did not know if the motors were also used in races for cheating. But he added that he believed that some kinds of carbon fiber, the material used to make pro bikes, could render the technology invisible to the cycling union’s new screening devices.

Varjas said that many of his customers who merely relied on the device to keep cycling were reluctant to offer endorsements.

“It’s a very strange market,” Varjas said. “No one will say they have this kind of bike.”
 

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