Ah apologies, haven't looked far back in the thread and still saw people talking about Driessche. Yeah it's risky but it's still bizarre... why would the wheel start up again... from a stationary position?
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We see her get away on bike nr 3. That means the UCI probably got bike nr 1 or nr 2.
Sabrina was mentioning that the tube looked different than normal. I suspect she would have known about a different design of the frame. I'm not sure but think she is talking about a close up of a repair of the frame where they put the battery inside.
Femke's tactic was to ride from start to finish on one bike without changing. I noticed that in all her races I watched. Sabrina Stultiens also mentioned that this was suspiscious in Hoogerheide.
Femke did perform bad on the same track in Zolder a month earlier. Now the conditions where worse for an e-bike due to rain. Comparing Femke's performance during the world championship race with Maud Kaptheijn, who often beat her before, it was not that much under-par
We dont know why Femke does not like to change bike during the race. It could be because she has only one engine. It could also be because she wants a clean bike in the pits so no mechanic from another team or the UCI can catch her. Why else would Sabrina find it suspiscious that she did not change bike?
Look at the Koppenberg from 33:00:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AlvQJqkfpk
Is that umbrellaman with Nico in the pits? It sure looks they are holding bike nr 3.
Re:
Whoever umbrella man is, he would seem to be somehow connected to the van den Driessche group. I think at the Worlds it would seem that bike 2 is the one that got confiscated, reason being bike 1 is the one she was riding and we were told her bike was confiscated from the pits and wasn't the one she was actually riding. She therefore has no spare in the pits when bike 1 breaks, so it seems likely "umbrella man" was dispatched from the pits to get bike 3 from the truck for her which is why she collects her bike from the outside of the race course when she DNFs, after bike 1 has already disappeared. That's why I thought she must have handed bike 1 at the lefthander to somebody coming from the pits, then crossed the course to get to where bike 3 was dropped off for her.
I made the assumption that since she was riding bike 1 in the race and rides away on bike 3 after DNFing, it must have been bike 2 that was busted.Tienus said:
Ah right, the article was fairly brief and I was thinking Sabrina was noting that she had one bike significantly different from the others, which I read as meaning bike 1 as it's got a few features very separate from 2 and 3.
I was leaning towards thinking she has one motor that switches between bikes when she needs to. But what you say there about a clean bike in the pits and that she doesn't change bikes often, that is one thing I did wonder, and given that it seems bike 3 is clean, maybe she did have two engines, in which case it's likely 1 and 2 are both motorized, but she normally only takes one of the motorized ones to the start and bike 3 in the pits in case; if that were to be the case, then it legit could be a mistake that they've taken the wrong bike to the pits. At the same time, the UCI publicizing that she didn't ride the motorized bike would then confuse matters especially if they did actually scan bike 1 and found it to be fine...
Whoever umbrella man is, he would seem to be somehow connected to the van den Driessche group. I think at the Worlds it would seem that bike 2 is the one that got confiscated, reason being bike 1 is the one she was riding and we were told her bike was confiscated from the pits and wasn't the one she was actually riding. She therefore has no spare in the pits when bike 1 breaks, so it seems likely "umbrella man" was dispatched from the pits to get bike 3 from the truck for her which is why she collects her bike from the outside of the race course when she DNFs, after bike 1 has already disappeared. That's why I thought she must have handed bike 1 at the lefthander to somebody coming from the pits, then crossed the course to get to where bike 3 was dropped off for her.
Re:
Testing new equipment on friendly home turf where the officials are buddies, not much budget/logistics/desire to test riders/bikes too carefully? It's my belief that doping regimes get a little early season tryout to see how the legs hold up in race conditions. "Legal" equipment gets tested out and refined too, so maybe it's the same with the shady stuff?
Libertine Seguros said:
Testing new equipment on friendly home turf where the officials are buddies, not much budget/logistics/desire to test riders/bikes too carefully? It's my belief that doping regimes get a little early season tryout to see how the legs hold up in race conditions. "Legal" equipment gets tested out and refined too, so maybe it's the same with the shady stuff?
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
^agreed.
i don't see the naive aspect of it either.
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/video-this-movistar-hide-the-bike-clip-leads-to-motorised-bike-allegations/
(scroll down for video)
This was Movistar's more than iffy explanation of the incident:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/vuelta-a-espana/motorised-bike-movistar-respond-to-social-media-conspiracy-theories-190362
I call motor.
^agreed.
i don't see the naive aspect of it either.
it should be seen in direct relation to this incident:HappyCycling said:
http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/video-this-movistar-hide-the-bike-clip-leads-to-motorised-bike-allegations/
(scroll down for video)
This was Movistar's more than iffy explanation of the incident:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/vuelta-a-espana/motorised-bike-movistar-respond-to-social-media-conspiracy-theories-190362
sure, but you don't go around screaming "hide it, hide it!", are you?
I call motor.
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
I see absolutely nothing suspicious about that. It's a wheel with the best bearings that money can buy. It's whole point is to spin as freely as possible.
Also, at the start of the video, isn't the wheel spinning backwards?
HappyCycling said:
I see absolutely nothing suspicious about that. It's a wheel with the best bearings that money can buy. It's whole point is to spin as freely as possible.
Also, at the start of the video, isn't the wheel spinning backwards?
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
I'm sure teams do give their, ahem, "preparation plans", a little test in the early season. And if this was a flyaway race and they only had the doctored bikes with them, they may have had to stick with them through gritted teeth and hope they weren't checked. But it's not, it's in Spain, where they could easily procure or provide some unaltered bikes, and the race is pretty meaningless and everybody is looking out for motorized bikes now that it's been shown without doubt that it's not fanciful conspiracy theorizing but in fact a reality. Even if they had been intending to test such bikes at Comunidad Valenciana, you would expect the Zolder fallout to put the kibosh on that.
That's not to say that they don't use motorized bikes, and that's not to say that they wouldn't use them later in the season... but doing so this week (I repeat, it's early February) would be absolutely crazy, to an extent that it would be difficult to believe from a team that has been smart enough to survive through as many eras of cycling and as many scandals as they have.
To be using motorized bikes in a race where it doesn't matter, literally five days after it becomes the subject on everybody's lips?sniper said:
I'm sure teams do give their, ahem, "preparation plans", a little test in the early season. And if this was a flyaway race and they only had the doctored bikes with them, they may have had to stick with them through gritted teeth and hope they weren't checked. But it's not, it's in Spain, where they could easily procure or provide some unaltered bikes, and the race is pretty meaningless and everybody is looking out for motorized bikes now that it's been shown without doubt that it's not fanciful conspiracy theorizing but in fact a reality. Even if they had been intending to test such bikes at Comunidad Valenciana, you would expect the Zolder fallout to put the kibosh on that.
That's not to say that they don't use motorized bikes, and that's not to say that they wouldn't use them later in the season... but doing so this week (I repeat, it's early February) would be absolutely crazy, to an extent that it would be difficult to believe from a team that has been smart enough to survive through as many eras of cycling and as many scandals as they have.
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
However,
1. has the UCI ever done ANY unannounced bike testing at any race?
Not that I know of.
2. has UCI ever tested ANY bikes other than finish bikes?
again, not that I know of.
Just saying, it's not far-fetched to assume that the pros (and the managers/mechanics) know exactly when and where there is going to be bike testing and, by extension, when and where they can use or test with a motor without any sort of risk other than the odd hesjedal-kind of blooper.
to be sure, i don't find the footage compelling at all.
more compelling to me is the "hide it!" incident.
Very fair points.Libertine Seguros said:
However,
1. has the UCI ever done ANY unannounced bike testing at any race?
Not that I know of.
2. has UCI ever tested ANY bikes other than finish bikes?
again, not that I know of.
Just saying, it's not far-fetched to assume that the pros (and the managers/mechanics) know exactly when and where there is going to be bike testing and, by extension, when and where they can use or test with a motor without any sort of risk other than the odd hesjedal-kind of blooper.
to be sure, i don't find the footage compelling at all.
more compelling to me is the "hide it!" incident.
Should be easy enough to build a motor detector to be used on the course as the riders come past. If I get the time I will build one.
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
Not too many with high IQs in the sport.
Libertine Seguros said:
Not too many with high IQs in the sport.
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
Sorry but what makes you think that what you know or don't know about this topic is of any significance? Wouldn't it be safer to assume that at least some checks were not announced, and some bikes were checked also on other occasions than after finish? But then you would not be able to formulate your assumption, would you.sniper said:
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
Anything is possible in this sport.....generally not in the interests of fair play
PeterB said:
Anything is possible in this sport.....generally not in the interests of fair play
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
in texas they use to say, fool me once, shame on you.
exactemundo.Benotti69 said:PeterB said:
Anything is possible in this sport.....generally not in the interests of fair play
in texas they use to say, fool me once, shame on you.
The UCI have supposedly tested bikes that riders didn't finish with. I remember hearing this mentioned a few times when watching Eurosport. Of course, that doesn't mean much as the UCI doesn't take the testing seriously.
Re:
it's ridiculous to accuse fans of being too skeptical.
as long as the UCI continue to be in charge of policing and selling the sport, every result and every performance must unfortunately be viewed with skepticism, as much as i wish it were different.
look at Cookson's twitter feed, between policing and selling, it is crystal clear where his priorities lie.
exactly.Metabolol said:
it's ridiculous to accuse fans of being too skeptical.
as long as the UCI continue to be in charge of policing and selling the sport, every result and every performance must unfortunately be viewed with skepticism, as much as i wish it were different.
look at Cookson's twitter feed, between policing and selling, it is crystal clear where his priorities lie.
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
Of course, speculate as much as you wish. But here you based your conclusion on gargabe not truth. Want to take second chance and try to come up with some better argument why teams should know exactly when to use motors and when not?sniper said:exactemundo.Benotti69 said:PeterB said:
Anything is possible in this sport.....generally not in the interests of fair play
in texas they use to say, fool me once, shame on you.
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
When Uncle Brian gives the nod is usually the preferred method. Of course that also means you have to keep your end of the bargain and not make it obvious.
PeterB said:Of course, speculate as much as you wish. But here you based your conclusion on gargabe not truth. Want to take second chance and try to come up with some better argument why teams should know exactly when to use motors and when not?sniper said:exactemundo.Benotti69 said:PeterB said:
Anything is possible in this sport.....generally not in the interests of fair play
in texas they use to say, fool me once, shame on you.
When Uncle Brian gives the nod is usually the preferred method. Of course that also means you have to keep your end of the bargain and not make it obvious.
not sure what you mean.
it's not up to me to prove they can't be trusted. It's up to them to prove they can.
Obviously.
As long as UCI don't resolve the countless conflicts of interests, all results and perfomances are logically subject to skepticism.
It's how conflicts of interest work: either (a) you resolve them, or (b) you provide enough transparency so as to convince independent observers that there is no danger of corruption. If you do neither (a) nor (b), indep. observers have the right, if not duty, to distrust you.
Re:
Your basis for conclusion: UCI never do unannounced bike testing, UCI tests only finish bikes
Your source of basis for conclusion: Your knowledge
Relevance of your source: low -> Reliability of your basis for conclusion: low -> Relevance of your conclusion: dubious
I am not going to claim that I have more knowledge about this topic than you, but at least quick search would reveal a report or two like this:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...lan-san-remo-was-it-looking-for-motors-163376.
Of course you can say that you refuse to believe that tests were in fact not unannounced. Which brings us back to the question how to prove that something did not happen. Yet you reqiure to be presented with proof of this.
And if you look for testing of bikes elsewhere than after finish, just think of TTs before which I understand all bikes are checked more regularly at least for geometry.
So there is still long way to insinuating that pro teams know exactly when and where to use motors...
Your conclusion: pros (and the managers/mechanics) know exactly when and where there is going to be bike testing and, by extension, when and where they can use or test with a motorsniper said:
Your basis for conclusion: UCI never do unannounced bike testing, UCI tests only finish bikes
Your source of basis for conclusion: Your knowledge
Relevance of your source: low -> Reliability of your basis for conclusion: low -> Relevance of your conclusion: dubious
I am not going to claim that I have more knowledge about this topic than you, but at least quick search would reveal a report or two like this:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...lan-san-remo-was-it-looking-for-motors-163376.
Of course you can say that you refuse to believe that tests were in fact not unannounced. Which brings us back to the question how to prove that something did not happen. Yet you reqiure to be presented with proof of this.
And if you look for testing of bikes elsewhere than after finish, just think of TTs before which I understand all bikes are checked more regularly at least for geometry.
So there is still long way to insinuating that pro teams know exactly when and where to use motors...
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
That article was pretty good for a chuckle. Like the pics of the mechanics taking cranks out of bikes. Ridiculous. All you need to do is remove the SP and look sown the tube with a flashlight. They want to make it look like it is such a production. It is all for show.
That article was pretty good for a chuckle. Like the pics of the mechanics taking cranks out of bikes. Ridiculous. All you need to do is remove the SP and look sown the tube with a flashlight. They want to make it look like it is such a production. It is all for show.
Re: Mechanical doping: first rider caught
Is the downtube not good for a motor? Harder to engineer yes, but if they'd really only look down the seattube...veganrob said:
Re: Re:
I concluded nothing. I insinuated nothing.
And I wasn't claiming knowledge, I was claiming a lack of knowledge.
My point is century-old: I won't trust any procycling performances until the testing is genuinely independent.
Back on topic: what is your link meant to show?
It says:
you're putting alot of words in my mouth.PeterB said:
I concluded nothing. I insinuated nothing.
And I wasn't claiming knowledge, I was claiming a lack of knowledge.
My point is century-old: I won't trust any procycling performances until the testing is genuinely independent.
Back on topic: what is your link meant to show?
It says:
that pretty much supports my point, doesnt it?
Re:
I a not buying the USPS Armstrong motor. sure, they could have got a technological solution in America in 2002 or earlier. no probs justifying that. the only rides I would look at, Bettini at San Sebastian in 2007 or 8, but he did not obliterate any strong field like at Worlds after. I think he may have obliterated a Lombardia field the same month or a that last period of racing that year. someone help me out.
how about Spartacus at Mondrisio Worlds that Cadel Evans won. The Spaniards came to race for Rodrigues /alliterations,
and apart from Rodriguez, the strongest riders were Kolobnev, Ballan, Garmin's Steve Cozza (WHO? you say? the guy with the hipster moustache) , then Evans were the MVPs in that race. But Evans the most conservative, Spartacus definitely the primary animator and would light it up on the hills. great ride by Spartacus, definite MVP.
zlev11 said:
I a not buying the USPS Armstrong motor. sure, they could have got a technological solution in America in 2002 or earlier. no probs justifying that. the only rides I would look at, Bettini at San Sebastian in 2007 or 8, but he did not obliterate any strong field like at Worlds after. I think he may have obliterated a Lombardia field the same month or a that last period of racing that year. someone help me out.
how about Spartacus at Mondrisio Worlds that Cadel Evans won. The Spaniards came to race for Rodrigues /alliterations,
and apart from Rodriguez, the strongest riders were Kolobnev, Ballan, Garmin's Steve Cozza (WHO? you say? the guy with the hipster moustache) , then Evans were the MVPs in that race. But Evans the most conservative, Spartacus definitely the primary animator and would light it up on the hills. great ride by Spartacus, definite MVP.
Re: Re:
aint it just awesome
femke's family steal pararkeets n alliterationz
Freddythefrog said:
aint it just awesome
femke's family steal pararkeets n alliterationz
Re:
keeping up with the Van Den Driessches at some lowlands aviary. The Nanny Fran Drescher can make a special appearance!
Kim Kardashian got famous for less.Libertine Seguros said:
keeping up with the Van Den Driessches at some lowlands aviary. The Nanny Fran Drescher can make a special appearance!
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