Motor doping thread

[sniper]

Even Durand, after having provided 20 minutes of compelling evidence that Cancellara used a motor in 2010, concluded "I'm not saying Cance used a motor, really".
The omerta is strong. People don't go round naming people. That's not how it works.

And i agree with popeofdope that UCI reluctance to do anything about it (and in fact help covering it up) is further evidence of motors being widespread.

 

[ThePopeOfDope]

Exactly for me that bike change was just to put a new bidon (Battery)

 

[Scott SoCal]

Re: Re:

You guys will be disappointed if it's only Armstrong? I'll be amazed if it's anyone at all.

Yep.

This is a "look over there" distraction. It reminds me of the NFL. Why discuss dudes beating their wives when we can spent three years talking about Tom Brady and deflate-gate?

It's probably a conspiracy.
A bunch of no-names plotting together to make motorization in procycling look like a real thing.
When we all know that really it's just science fiction.
The technology just isn't there yet.
And who would risk it anyway.

Some will believe anything. Doping is in the past... mechanical doping, however, will ruin the sport. Really.

No, really.

 

[sniper]

I wonder if those advocating for the legalization of PEDs will also advocate for the legalization of motors. And if not, why not.

 

[lartiste]

Re:

I wonder if those advocating for the legalization of PEDs will also advocate for the legalization of motors. And if not, why not.

I do not advocate legalization of PEDs, but still there is big difference between using PEDs and using motors. Even when you are using PEDs you still have to work extremelly hard. Majority of PEDs will help you to shorten recovery after hard training so at the end of the day you train harder and more often. Motor will help you to succeed without bigger efort. In my opinion it is simple as that.

 

[Tienus]

Varjas benefits from the publicity immensely.

He does and so does Alessandro Bartoli (BHOSS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAcbdW2ePRE ) who also appears in the stade 2 program.
Typhoon are using the UCI press moments to display their bikes.

Bartoli is also carefull about what he says:
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/sport/motordoping-im-radsport-mit-250-watt-im-sattel/13624136.html

Dass der Profisport aber ein E-Motorenproblem hat, glaubt auch Bartoli. „Wenn ich mir nur angucke, was es alles an Radwechseln vor einem Anstieg gibt“, sagt er und lässt den Satz offen.

Bartoli beliefs that professional sports has an electric motor problem. "If I just look at the changing bikes before a climb," he says, leaving the sentence open.

Varjas has been helpfull in detecting the fraud with heath cameras. He has also hinted often at the tell-tale high cadence.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

Varjas benefits from the publicity immensely.

He does and so does Alessandro Bartoli (BHOSS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAcbdW2ePRE ) who also appears in the stade 2 program.
Typhoon are using the UCI press moments to display their bikes.

Bartoli is also carefull about what he says:
http://www.tagesspiegel.de/sport/motordoping-im-radsport-mit-250-watt-im-sattel/13624136.html

Dass der Profisport aber ein E-Motorenproblem hat, glaubt auch Bartoli. „Wenn ich mir nur angucke, was es alles an Radwechseln vor einem Anstieg gibt“, sagt er und lässt den Satz offen.

Bartoli beliefs that professional sports has an electric motor problem. "If I just look at the changing bikes before a climb," he says, leaving the sentence open.

Varjas has been helpfull in detecting the fraud with heath cameras. He has also hinted often at the tell-tale high cadence.

That BHOSS could be re-branded as a different manufacture. Fine looking machine. Cheers to the Italians.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Rider A on the best PED program the peloton has seen vs Rider B on the best motor-assisted bike the peloton has seen

All other things being equal, who wins ?

Think my money would be on Rider A right now. Maybe Rider B has some scope for improvement though

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Dear lord of the flies if it is!

I have a theory about Lance but doubt anyone at this point would be willing to listen.

Sometimes when life gives you a bump in the road - you view things a tad bit different. I have gone through the gambit this Christmas and don't expect my personal feeling to get any more stable but have an entirely new perspective on LA.

Shame on him if he was using motors and it is a proven fact. Could be the hammer. But I would have expected my man Tyler and his Twin or Floyd for that matter to have come up with this before. That is why I'm a bit of a skeptic.

Likewise.

It defies logic for LA to have used motors and it be kept secret until now.

Why did Tyler and others not spill in their books, why did Floyd not spill?

If it happened there is no way that only Bruyneel would have known, team mates would have known for sure.

Then there is the Grand Jury, those that knew all coincidentally left that part out?

Would much prefer a motor story on a current team, Varjas needs to p1ss, or get off the pot.

On Facebook a certain Betsy has hinted very strongly that the upcoming story is gonna be about Lance using a motor.
https://twitter.com/camille_9191/status/813897935461216256
And as someone else said, 60Minutes would be unlikely to dedicate an investigation to a non-American procyclist.
So Lance is almost certainly what the story is about, imo.

The questions you pose above are very legit. Maybe we get some kind of clarifications.

It's gonna be awful watching Cookson and co. pretend it's not happening anymore. Get ready for a new episode of "It's all Lances fault".

I'm still mildly hopeful that the investigation will spill over into the current peloton. Maybe idle hope.

 

[sniper]

For those who missed this:
https://twitter.com/cleans_letsrun/status/814073856696651776

 

[Chaddy]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Has that investigation been confirmed by the French police.

 

[sniper]

Re: Moto-fraud: first rider caught

Has that investigation been confirmed by the French police.

good question.

Maybe UCI and/or WADA should verify the story.
In the name of transparency and fair play and all that.

 

[sniper]

Cookson created this mess.
The Femke positive gave him a window of opportunity to introduce rigorous and transparent anti-motor testing.
But he failed miserably, and instead he used Femke to spin the narrative pretending it was the sick work of an outcast family who steel parakiets, whilst claiming the positive was evidence that UCI are on top of it.
Enough people bought into it.

But if Lance turns out to have used one, then more people will come to see the obvious, namely that the governing has been complicit in a pretty huge cover up.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Lance probably involved.
Question is will others be implicated too.
Let's pray to the sweet Lord and the holy mother Mary that it's not just about Lance.

Why is it bad if it is only Lance ? - Who can be 100% sure if mechanical doping exists in the professional peleton ?

It could be one rider or it could be 500 riders ? Who knows.

You always seem to be cheer-leading to find out the worst in cycling or other sports - It's like you get no enjoyment from sport.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Dear lord of the flies if it is!

I have a theory about Lance but doubt anyone at this point would be willing to listen.

Sometimes when life gives you a bump in the road - you view things a tad bit different. I have gone through the gambit this Christmas and don't expect my personal feeling to get any more stable but have an entirely new perspective on LA.

Shame on him if he was using motors and it is a proven fact. Could be the hammer. But I would have expected my man Tyler and his Twin or Floyd for that matter to have come up with this before. That is why I'm a bit of a skeptic.

Likewise.

It defies logic for LA to have used motors and it be kept secret until now.

Why did Tyler and others not spill in their books, why did Floyd not spill?

If it happened there is no way that only Bruyneel would have known, team mates would have known for sure.

Then there is the Grand Jury, those that knew all coincidentally left that part out?

Would much prefer a motor story on a current team, Varjas needs to p1ss, or get off the pot.

It's a matter of honor - Cycling pros consider mechanical doping as far worse than chemical doping.

 

[yaco]

I am unsure where the documentary will go - Any rider named will deny the allegation - And if it concerns Armstrong its over 6 years ago, so there will no hard evidence - Unless you go the whistle-blower route which is unlikely - Where do you go ?

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
Why is it bad if it is only Lance ?

It's not bad. It's disappointing. I explained the 'why' a few times already.

- Who can be 100% sure if mechanical doping exists in the professional peleton ?

does one need to be 100% sure?
It's just very likely and there is plenty of evidence for it spelled out in various threads in the Clinic.
But if you prefer to think Femke is the only one, don't let me keep you.

It could be one rider or it could be 500 riders ? Who knows.

Why would it be only 1 rider? That just doesn't make any kind of sense.
That said, i agree that we can only guess at the exact numbers and widespreadedness of motorization.

You always seem to be cheer-leading to find out the worst in cycling or other sports - It's like you get no enjoyment from sport.

Let's not make it about the poster.


Don't pin me down on this, but my guess at present would be in the direction of 25% of pro's and/or teams using/experimenting with motorization.

 

[sniper]

Fact is, if the evidence for Lance using a motor already in the late 90s or early 2000s is compelling, then things are gonna get really really messy in the aftermath. It will have major ramifications for cycling history.
It will mean that not a single top performance from 2000-ish onwards is beyond motor-suspicion.
Accusations are gonna be thrown around, with very little possibilities to prove anything either way.

Meanwhile Cookson missed the golden opportunity to implant rigorous and transparent motortesting in the aftermath of Femke.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Fact is, if the evidence for Lance using a motor already in the late 90s or early 2000s is compelling, then things are gonna get really really messy in the aftermath. It will have major ramifications for cycling history.
It will mean that not a single top performance from 2000-ish onwards is beyond motor-suspicion.
Accusations are gonna be thrown around, with very little possibilities to prove anything either way.

Meanwhile Cookson missed the golden opportunity to implant rigorous and transparent motortesting in the aftermath of Femke.

It could be from Armstrong's time in 2009/2010 - We have to wait and see whether there is a fool-proof method of testing to detect mechanical doping - After all, drug testing has its limitations.

 

[sniper]

Drug testing is pointless as long as its done by the governing body.
Same for motor testing.

The big threat is of course that sponsors will run away.
That's all the motivation you need for UCI to try and frustrate any kind of truth finding process.
Which is exactly what we see them doing.

 

[Nick C.]

I think this is the Varjas interview/story that has been long promised.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cbs-60-minutes-investigates-mechanical-doping-in-professional-cycling

 

[veganrob]

Re:

Drug testing is pointless as long as its done by the governing body.
Same for motor testing.

The big threat is of course that sponsors will run away.
That's all the motivation you need for UCI to try and frustrate any kind of truth finding process.
Which is exactly what we see them doing.

Winner. This is what it's all about.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Drug testing is pointless as long as its done by the governing body.
Same for motor testing.

The big threat is of course that sponsors will run away.

That's all the motivation you need for UCI to try and frustrate any kind of truth finding process.
Which is exactly what we see them doing.

Drug testing is not pointless, it serves a very good purpose. It ensures that administrations can effectively control the outcome of most events and curate the medal tables at the Olympics. Additionally "anti-doping" has created an industry within itself; from WADA to NADOs to the Millars and Vaughters, there is good money to be made from "anti-doping". A little like America's "war on drugs", there are now more drugs and more users since the 'war' began.

Moto-doping can curate the winners and losers much more precisely than doping. Doping can be a little hit and miss at times.

 

[Tienus]

Re:

For those who missed this:
https://twitter.com/cleans_letsrun/status/814073856696651776

This is probably the same case as the Barfield emails. Barfield confirmed the emails where real.

"During the early stages of last years tour"
I remeber watching the coble stones stage in 2014. At the time I suspected Nibali and his team mates and the Belking riders Boom and Vanmarcke of using motors. I even think I've seen Boom using a switch inside his skinsuit at the finish line.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Fact is, if the evidence for Lance using a motor already in the late 90s or early 2000s is compelling, then things are gonna get really really messy in the aftermath. It will have major ramifications for cycling history.
It will mean that not a single top performance from 2000-ish onwards is beyond motor-suspicion.
Accusations are gonna be thrown around, with very little possibilities to prove anything either way.

I think thats wishful thinking for a cynic like you.

No way Armstrong used motors 99-05.