Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Not surprised if he really was ill during the Tour. However, recurring virus, and massive amounts of antibiotics. Solid journalism.

I noticed that too - 'He has had this virus twice before.Give him antibiotics! Why are they not working?'

Three possibilities -
we need a better translation,
he needs a better doctor,
or he needs a better excuse-writer.

Probably just normal/mainstream that somewhere along the way somebody calls antivirals antibiotics. Still it really gets on my nerve. Though I've heard of cases where doctors actually do try to treat viral infections with antibiotics, I refuse to believe that would be the case in this setting. Too much money involved to have doctors that crappy.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

Probably just normal/mainstream that somewhere along the way somebody calls antivirals antibiotics. Still it really gets on my nerve. Though I've heard of cases where doctors actually do try to treat viral infections with antibiotics, I refuse to believe that would be the case in this setting. Too much money involved to have doctors that crappy.

I've had doctors just prescribe antibiotics prophylactically in order to avoid an opportunistic infection or even a piggybacking virus. In 99% of cases it seems like counterproductive overkill but for someone doing a 3,500km bike race under crap conditions it might not be the worst of ideas. But I'm not a doctor. And it does seem a little daft. But, again, I'm not a doctor.

 

[Red Rick]

It's not described like it's prophylaxis in here. Not to mention that if you're at risk for opportunistic infections, you definitely don't belong in the TdF. What could have been the case, is that they just didn't do diagnostics and weren't sure what it actually was. Really not something you should be doing, but it seems plausible with all the pressure to perform in a TdF.

 

[Nacho]

Re: Re:

Not surprised if he really was ill during the Tour. However, recurring virus, and massive amounts of antibiotics. Solid journalism.

I noticed that too - 'He has had this virus twice before.Give him antibiotics! Why are they not working?'

Three possibilities -
we need a better translation,
he needs a better doctor,
or he needs a better excuse-writer.

Probably just normal/mainstream that somewhere along the way somebody calls antivirals antibiotics. Still it really gets on my nerve. Though I've heard of cases where doctors actually do try to treat viral infections with antibiotics, I refuse to believe that would be the case in this setting. Too much money involved to have doctors that crappy.

A lot of the time they don't have (at least they used to not have) quick definitive tests to pinpoint a virus or bacteria. So they would treat for bacteria with the anti-bacteria even though it probably was a virus, and there were no anti-virals. Doing stuff like that has done its part in hastening bacteria mutations against the meds.

The point being they well could have given him anti-bacterials from a doctor's order, or the doctor thinking that is what the patient expected.

 

[SeriousSam]

Exactly.
When I'm coming down with something, I'm usually able to get antibiotics from the doctor if I want to, even when the test for bacterial infection comes back negative. There are two reasons for that:

1. Even if it's a virus, it weakens the body making it more susceptible to bacterial infections too. Better hand the antibiotics over right away doc I'm under pressure with important deadlines and I'll just self administer when the bacterial infections strikes, as it surly will. Or pass the meds on to others.
2. Armstrong's tests came back negative 500 times but it was all wrong. Can't trust a negative. Doctors tend to be on the rational side and agree.

 

[Red Rick]

That's rationale is absolutely ridiculous, and one of the driving forces for impending public health disaster. Better safe than sorry is an absolute non-issue when talking about antibiotic use. There's a very good reason they don't hand carbapenems out like candybars for example. There's more and more emphasis and guidelines on reducing the selective pressure of antibiotics and bacteria to keep the current treatments viable for as long as possible. Usually there's empirical treatment that should work in most cases, and reevaluate/ do additional diagnostics. In the case of chest infections however, empirical treatment is to do nothing and reevaluate a few days later. To link this all back to Quintana, he's not your average case in that he can't just rest and recover passively, nor is it likely that team doctors are under any sort of scrutiny regarding treatment they prescribe for minor illnesses, as they don't have to give a flying fudge about public health. So they just chug it in as a hail mary to hope the rider recovers more quickly and be more competitive in the Tour. And it isn't the problem if Quintana receives antibiotics, it's that its not an isolated case and the whole mentality behind it.

 

[carton]

I think a thorough discussion of the subject would be best held in the clinic, but health concerns have historically been, at best, an ancillary issue for cycling doctors. Much less public health concerns.

 

[PatrickLeeds]

Re:

I think a thorough discussion of the subject would be best held in the clinic, but health concerns have historically been, at best, an ancillary issue for cycling doctors. Much less public health concerns.

C'mon, just becuase it's the discussion of medical treatment you can't wave it away with 'Clinic! Clinic!'

Suggesting Antibiotics as a 'Better Safe than Sorry' measure is just infuriating. But frankly I don't think that's the issue in this case. I am hoping it's the Journalistic example of the people who think they have 'a touch of Flu', 'cos it's either that, or really is just bad excuses from a rider who was simply not in form.

Pat

 

[hrotha]

Why would cycling doctors be trigger-happy with the antibiotics, when antibiotics are known to have a short-term negative impact on performance?

 

[Walkman]

Exactly.
When I'm coming down with something, I'm usually able to get antibiotics from the doctor if I want to, even when the test for bacterial infection comes back negative. There are two reasons for that:

1. Even if it's a virus, it weakens the body making it more susceptible to bacterial infections too. Better hand the antibiotics over right away doc I'm under pressure with important deadlines and I'll just self administer when the bacterial infections strikes, as it surly will. Or pass the meds on to others.
2. Armstrong's tests came back negative 500 times but it was all wrong. Can't trust a negative. Doctors tend to be on the rational side and agree.

You do know that acting like that is what is will cause resistant bacteria to be a big problem in the future, right?

 

[SeriousSam]

Sure. I support policy that makes unnecessary prescription of antibiotics less prevalent.

 

[46&twoWheels]

If doctors were really free to make impactful indipendent decisions on the riders, Quintana would have been sent home
They're told to manage more or less, diagnosing and treatment are incompatible with the Tour daily routine

 

[Valv.Piti]

Any news? I keep hearing he will attend the Vuelta and if he does, I must admit Im very sceptic about his shape..

 

[capuldemetal]

on a spanish forum,someone said that he is in colombia,training at altitude.but also it might be false.

 

[Isaak-Gabriel]

Re:

on a spanish forum,someone said that he is in colombia,training at altitude.but also it might be false.

Maybe... https://twitter.com/PowerRaceCol/status/763388447168032768

 

[proffz]

there is a photo of nairo training with el bimbo sevilla and the uni-elm team on the roads of boyaca
so he is probably preparing fr the vuelta

 

[Escarabajo]

I will be surprise if he didn't go to the Vuelta after the results from the Tour.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

I will be surprise if he didn't go to the Vuelta after the results from the Tour.

It sure looks like he will, but the big question is how good he is. Has he recovered? I don't think so. Read a Spanish article that Moviestar posted where the doctor stated he needed to have 3 weeks of rest. Thats looking somewhat like bull, but his body was wasted in the end of the Tour, it was obvious he had nothing left and had to dig 110% deep just to hang on for as long as possible. I very much doubt its possible to recover and beat a fresh Contador, but lets see. One can only hope. Big question marks from Contador's two biggest rivals going in.

 

[Valv.Piti]

So, whats to expect guys?

 

[Montecampione]

His form is a mystery. It all depends on, like you stated, if his body has recovered well the last weeks. Can't imagine that Movistar will let him start if he still feels tired. Wait and Hope - we will know soon enough.

Would be great to see him back in great shape though and polish away, by riding agressive, the image of 'wheelsucker' that he created during the Tour.

 

[filipepc]

I expect a top 5 for quintana, maybe top 3. But we never know...

If he is ok, maybe he can do a little better than the Tour, where he disappoint me, but maybe it was because of being sick.
Quintana must take the next stape if he wants to win the tour one day. I strongly believe that if he cannot explode more in the mountains, it will be complicated to win.

I hope he can achieve a good result.

 

[Isaak-Gabriel]

Re:

So, whats to expect guys?

Well, Nairo can reach the podium and achieve top 3 in all GT's, it's maybe symbolic but very important for his career and building 2017 with optimism, by ending this 2016 season with a sweet taste in mouth. History tells he was unlucky in this race so it's time to broke this bad karma. Only a single stage his really adapted to his caracteristics (stage 14) but now he seems to be in decent shape, so wait and see. He must also avoid any illness or disease trouble, he's often troubled by these problems (IMO health problems are his biggest weakness). He's actually in northen Spain to check some important stages (article in spanish) : http://ciclismoenasturias.com/nairo-quintana-me-gustaria-ganar-en-los-lagos/

 

[silvergrenade]

Quintana would have gone pretty deep this Tour. A lot would depend on how his recovery was after the Tour.
Having said that, he generally recovers better than the rest of the GC guys historically. A long flat TT will leave him atleast 1.5 minutes down on Froome, a minute a Contador(?), which will be substantial amount to take back in the mountains.
Steep ramps which dont suit him as much as maybe Chaves, Froome.
If last year is anything to go by, his performance would not be amazing, but right up there.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

So, whats to expect guys?

Well, Nairo can reach the podium and achieve top 3 in all GT's, it's maybe symbolic but very important for his career and building 2017 with optimism, by ending this 2016 season with a sweet taste in mouth. History tells he was unlucky in this race so it's time to broke this bad karma. Only a single stage his really adapted to his caracteristics (stage 14) but now he seems to be in decent shape, so wait and see. He must also avoid any illness or disease trouble, he's often troubled by these problems (IMO health problems are his biggest weakness). He's actually in northen Spain to check some important stages (article in spanish) : http://ciclismoenasturias.com/nairo-quintana-me-gustaria-ganar-en-los-lagos/

He has been hampered by health problems in the Giro 2014, Vuelta 2015 and Tour 2016. In 2014 and 2016 he was close to pulling out of these GT's, in Vuelta 2015 he was at one point dropped in the flat and was obviously way below par in Andorra, probably the most obvious example. He might actually have been able to win that Vuelta considering the level.

So yes, I'd also say its one of his biggest weaknesses, if the not biggest weakness. He is always able to pull through and deliver good results, but as I have stated earlier in this thread (I remember a big argument), his body seems very fragile for some reasons, unknown for us.

If he has recovered, I expect him to fight for the win. Nothing short but that should be expected if he indeed has recovered which we hope.

 

[Valv.Piti]

And btw, muchos gracias por the article. Good read and some nice pictures!