Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

Not a true racer imo. True champion would attack on Stelvio, with 3 teammates ahead. I think he was afraid of Dumoulin. But luck was on his side once again, like in his 2 previous GT wins. He's in good position right now, I think Nibali will be main threat, he gain huge confidence with today's win. Dumoulin will bleed slowly but surely, I think...

What exactly was his luck in his two previous GT wins? Being much better than the opposition, being alert when a break forms...?

When, where?

Cima Grappa, Zoncolan, La Camperona, Lagos de Covadonga, Aitana. Could name Formigal and Val Martello as well, but likely you'll run with the ''Contador!!!! Red flag!!!'' narrative.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Not a true racer imo. True champion would attack on Stelvio, with 3 teammates ahead. I think he was afraid of Dumoulin. But luck was on his side once again, like in his 2 previous GT wins. He's in good position right now, I think Nibali will be main threat, he gain huge confidence with today's win. Dumoulin will bleed slowly but surely, I think...

What exactly was his luck in his two previous GT wins? Being much better than the opposition, being alert when a break forms...?

When, where?

Cima Grappa, Zoncolan, La Camperona, Lagos de Covadonga, Aitana. Could name Formigal and Val Martello as well, but likely you'll run with the ''Contador!!!! Red flag!!!'' narrative.

He was very atentive in Formigal and that's what he won a GT indeed but he wasn't the initiator. He mostly waits for someone else to attack in positions like this. He should take the initiative more often.

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

Not a true racer imo. True champion would attack on Stelvio, with 3 teammates ahead. I think he was afraid of Dumoulin. But luck was on his side once again, like in his 2 previous GT wins. He's in good position right now, I think Nibali will be main threat, he gain huge confidence with today's win. Dumoulin will bleed slowly but surely, I think...

What exactly was his luck in his two previous GT wins? Being much better than the opposition, being alert when a break forms...?

When, where?

Cima Grappa, Zoncolan, La Camperona, Lagos de Covadonga, Aitana. Could name Formigal and Val Martello as well, but likely you'll run with the ''Contador!!!! Red flag!!!'' narrative.

He was very atentive in Formigal and that's what he won a GT indeed but he wasn't the initiator. He mostly waits for someone else to attack in positions like this. He should take the initiative more often.

Having to do basically the entire climb solo, dropping everyone but Brambilla, and still keeping an advantage of nearly two minutes over Chaves (not even Froome!), indicates he was mightily strong that day and much better than most of his opposition.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

What exactly was his luck in his two previous GT wins? Being much better than the opposition, being alert when a break forms...?

When, where?

Cima Grappa, Zoncolan, La Camperona, Lagos de Covadonga, Aitana. Could name Formigal and Val Martello as well, but likely you'll run with the ''Contador!!!! Red flag!!!'' narrative.

He was very atentive in Formigal and that's what he won a GT indeed but he wasn't the initiator. He mostly waits for someone else to attack in positions like this. He should take the initiative more often.

Having to do basically the entire climb solo, dropping everyone but Brambilla, and still keeping an advantage of nearly two minutes over Chaves (not even Froome), indicates he was mightily strong that day.

I am not talking about strength. I am saying that he needs to be the initiator in scenarios like this because he mostly waits for someone else to go even if he (Quintana) is the strongest. Or even if the leader is isolated he waits till 5-6 km to go and only gains 25-30 seconds (La Touissure). I find it pretty sad that such a talented climber like Quintana is mostly waiting and not taking risks when he should.

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

When, where?

Cima Grappa, Zoncolan, La Camperona, Lagos de Covadonga, Aitana. Could name Formigal and Val Martello as well, but likely you'll run with the ''Contador!!!! Red flag!!!'' narrative.

He was very atentive in Formigal and that's what he won a GT indeed but he wasn't the initiator. He mostly waits for someone else to attack in positions like this. He should take the initiative more often.

Having to do basically the entire climb solo, dropping everyone but Brambilla, and still keeping an advantage of nearly two minutes over Chaves (not even Froome), indicates he was mightily strong that day.

I am not talking about strength. I am saying that he needs to be the initiator in scenarios like this because he mostly waits for someone else to go even if he (Quintana) is the strongest. Or even if the leader is isolated he waits till 5-6 km to go and only gains 25-30 seconds (La Touissure). I find it pretty sad that such a talented climber like Quintana is mostly waiting and not taking risks when he should.

I am. That's what Mr. White was questioning in the first place.

 

[Valv.Piti]

With a very long day tomorrow again, stage 18 will be a free for all, but I doubt its where he will strike. I think Piancavallo might be the place.

 

[DNP-Old]

Re:

With a very long day tomorrow again, stage 18 will be a free for all, but I doubt its where he will strike. I think Piancavallo might be the place.

He'll lose if he waits for Piancavallo.

 

[Red Rick]

Pretty small chance that the MTF's alone will be enough, and he can't run into a Nibali counter.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

Cima Grappa, Zoncolan, La Camperona, Lagos de Covadonga, Aitana. Could name Formigal and Val Martello as well, but likely you'll run with the ''Contador!!!! Red flag!!!'' narrative.

He was very atentive in Formigal and that's what he won a GT indeed but he wasn't the initiator. He mostly waits for someone else to attack in positions like this. He should take the initiative more often.

Having to do basically the entire climb solo, dropping everyone but Brambilla, and still keeping an advantage of nearly two minutes over Chaves (not even Froome), indicates he was mightily strong that day.

I am not talking about strength. I am saying that he needs to be the initiator in scenarios like this because he mostly waits for someone else to go even if he (Quintana) is the strongest. Or even if the leader is isolated he waits till 5-6 km to go and only gains 25-30 seconds (La Touissure). I find it pretty sad that such a talented climber like Quintana is mostly waiting and not taking risks when he should.

I am. That's what Mr. White was questioning in the first place.

Ah, sorry then.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

With a very long day tomorrow again, stage 18 will be a free for all, but I doubt its where he will strike. I think Piancavallo might be the place.

He'll lose if he waits for Piancavallo.

So that basically means he will go long on stage 18, or? I don't think so. Obviously he will try on the last climb tho, but its not overly hard.

 

[Forever The Best]

Re: Re:

With a very long day tomorrow again, stage 18 will be a free for all, but I doubt its where he will strike. I think Piancavallo might be the place.

He'll lose if he waits for Piancavallo.

So that basically means he will go long on stage 18, or? I don't think so. Obviously he will try on the last climb tho, but its not overly hard.

Perhaps an alliance with Nibali from long way out to crack TD and then battle with Nibali in the remaining 2 mountain stages?

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Not a true racer imo. True champion would attack on Stelvio, with 3 teammates ahead. I think he was afraid of Dumoulin. But luck was on his side once again, like in his 2 previous GT wins. He's in good position right now, I think Nibali will be main threat, he gain huge confidence with today's win. Dumoulin will bleed slowly but surely, I think...

What exactly was his luck in his two previous GT wins? Being much better than the opposition, being alert when a break forms...?

When, where?

Cima Grappa, Zoncolan, La Camperona, Lagos de Covadonga, Aitana. Could name Formigal and Val Martello as well, but likely you'll run with the ''Contador!!!! Red flag!!!'' narrative.

He was never head and shoulders better than competition. I don't say he won undeservedly, but he had a bit of luck in both of his wins. That things doesn't happens often, like that descent mess from Stelvio, or that Froome and his whole team fail on Formigal. And now Dumoulin literally shits himself! I mean..., you know what I mean!
I am cheering for Nairo in this Giro, but I'm not happy with today's stage. It's clear they had a plan before the stage, but he quit that plan and rode a defensive race while not having bad legs at all, which later become clear. It was not a champions attitude imo. He's in good place only because of Dumoulin's misfortune, otherwise he would be at least 2min behind Tom. He needs to ride this remaining stages with more courage or he will end up without a win. That's what I think...

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

With a very long day tomorrow again, stage 18 will be a free for all, but I doubt its where he will strike. I think Piancavallo might be the place.

He'll lose if he waits for Piancavallo.

So that basically means he will go long on stage 18, or? I don't think so. Obviously he will try on the last climb tho, but its not overly hard.

Perhaps an alliance with Nibali from long way out to crack TD and then battle with Nibali in the remaining 2 mountain stages?

No way Nibali and Quintana will form an alliance. Dumoulin will crack anyway, those two are head to head for the win now.

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

With a very long day tomorrow again, stage 18 will be a free for all, but I doubt its where he will strike. I think Piancavallo might be the place.

He'll lose if he waits for Piancavallo.

So that basically means he will go long on stage 18, or? I don't think so. Obviously he will try on the last climb tho, but its not overly hard.

I think so. He has to in my opinion. Other than the first six kilometers, Piancavallo is a fairly easy climb. The stage also suits Dumoulin more than Nairo, since it isn't thát tough before the MTF. It will basically be a time trial for 16 kilometers. Nairo could drop him, but never throw a bomb of minutes into Dumo. That's just ignoring the threat that is Nibali now.

This is just based on how it is right now, we don't know how good Dumo will be after three weeks, but today he suggested and show he is still really, really good.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

With a very long day tomorrow again, stage 18 will be a free for all, but I doubt its where he will strike. I think Piancavallo might be the place.

He'll lose if he waits for Piancavallo.

So that basically means he will go long on stage 18, or? I don't think so. Obviously he will try on the last climb tho, but its not overly hard.

I think so. He has to in my opinion. Other than the first six kilometers, Piancavallo is a fairly easy climb. The stage also suits Dumoulin more than Nairo, since it isn't thát tough before the MTF. It will basically be a time trial for 16 kilometers. Nairo could drop him, but never throw a bomb of minutes into Dumo. That's just ignoring the threat that is Nibali now.

This is just based on how it is right now, we don't know how good Dumo will be after three weeks, but today he suggested and show he is still really, really good.

Come on, he wasn't that good. I know there are some extenuating circumstances, but he still lost over two minutes on a stage where no-one seriously attacked. It was hardly Armstrong on Luz Ardiden stuff.

 

[DNP-Old]

Re: Re:

Not a true racer imo. True champion would attack on Stelvio, with 3 teammates ahead. I think he was afraid of Dumoulin. But luck was on his side once again, like in his 2 previous GT wins. He's in good position right now, I think Nibali will be main threat, he gain huge confidence with today's win. Dumoulin will bleed slowly but surely, I think...

What exactly was his luck in his two previous GT wins? Being much better than the opposition, being alert when a break forms...?

When, where?

Cima Grappa, Zoncolan, La Camperona, Lagos de Covadonga, Aitana. Could name Formigal and Val Martello as well, but likely you'll run with the ''Contador!!!! Red flag!!!'' narrative.

He was never head and shoulders better than competition. I don't say he won undeservedly, but he had a bit of luck in both of his wins. That things doesn't happens often, like that descent mess from Stelvio, or that Froome and his whole team fail on Formigal. And now Dumoulin literally shits himself! I mean..., you know what I mean!
I am cheering for Nairo in this Giro, but I'm not happy with today's stage. It's clear they had a plan before the stage, but he quit that plan and rode a defensive race while not having bad legs at all, which later become clear. It was not a champions attitude imo. He's in good place only because of Dumoulin's misfortune, otherwise he would be at least 2min behind Tom. He needs to ride this remaining stages with more courage or he will end up without a win. That's what I think...

Agree to disagree, but other than Dumo crapping himself, I just don't see how any of that is luck.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I don't think he will, but I would happily take that. I think going all out on Pontives, Piancavallo and Foza is the best way to go now that he basically have caught up with Dumo. Pianca is basically a mono climb, but its the 19th stage after 3 very hard stages. Dumo won't be able to produce the same number of wattages after a day such as today.

Also, I think you are underrating Piancavallo, its basically an Italian Alpe d Huez: https://www.cyclingcols.com/col/Piancavallo

 

[Forever The Best]

I don't think he will, but I would happily take that. I think going all out on Pontives, Piancavallo and Foza is the best way to go now that he basically have caught up with Dumo. Pianca is basically a mono climb, but its the 19th stage after 3 very hard stages. Dumo won't be able to produce the same number of wattages after a day such as today.

Also, I think you are underrating Piancavallo, its basically an Italian Alpe d Huez: https://www.cyclingcols.com/col/Piancavallo

Dumoulin stayed within 30 seconds of Quintana in Blockhaus and he has still a 27 km of flat ITT. I think Nibali and Quintana should go from long on the 18th stage and then duke it out themselves on the remaining part. Amador, Anacona, Siutsou and Delfino can be very useful in stage 18.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

I think whichever way you look at it, stage 18 is tough in terms of tactics for Nibs and NQ. It all comes down to how TD is feeling. If he's good, it probably doesn't matter what they do. But leaving it until the last climb does seem like a gamble.

 

[RattaKuningas]

Re:

I think whichever way you look at it, stage 18 is tough in terms of tactics for Nibs and NQ. It all comes down to how TD is feeling. If he's good, it probably doesn't matter what they do. But leaving it until the last climb does seem like a gamble.

I think that they just have to ride stage 18 as hard as possible not necessarily go for an all-out attack. Third week is a battle of attrition and Quintana has been usually good at last mountain stages during 3rd week so he has to be doing something right.

 

[Red Rick]

Big question for me is where are they gonna drop Dumoulin on the way to Ortisei?

alpe d'huez is usually tackled by a small peloton that's already been over the cdf or the galibier, not it will be a full peloton. gc action is unlikely to start before the hardest part is mostly over. If Dumoulin is still riding as well as he is, I don't see quintana take enough there.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Either way, Quintana is back in the driver's seat and is now the favourite again at pretty much the same probability of winning he started the race on. So thats not all bad - what I fear the most are the people, if he wins, who now will point towards @poopgate as the reason for that and say he has won all of his GTs on luck, much like people like to diminish Nibali's achievements.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

Either way, Quintana is back in the driver's seat and is now the favourite again at pretty much the same probability of winning he started the race on. So thats not all bad - what I fear the most are the people, if he wins, who now will point towards @poopgate as the reason for that and say he has won all of his GTs on luck, much like people like to diminish Nibali's achievements.

Very very debatable. At the start of this Giro, he was the favourite, whereas now I'd argue Nibali and Dumo are both more likely to win than Nairo, given how Nibali seemed to be the stronger climber today, and Dumo still has a big buffer on Nibs and NQ due to the final TT

 

[DFA123]

Incredible that people are still claiming Dumoulin as a favourite. He won't even finish on the podium.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Either way, Quintana is back in the driver's seat and is now the favourite again at pretty much the same probability of winning he started the race on. So thats not all bad - what I fear the most are the people, if he wins, who now will point towards @poopgate as the reason for that and say he has won all of his GTs on luck, much like people like to diminish Nibali's achievements.

Very very debatable. At the start of this Giro, he was the favourite, whereas now I'd argue Nibali and Dumo are both more likely to win than Nairo, given how Nibali seemed to be the stronger climber today, and Dumo still has a big buffer on Nibs and NQ due to the final TT

Its not debatable, take a look at the market. The opinion of the masses vs your opinion. Objectivity > subjectivity