Teams & Riders Nairo Quintana discussion thread

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Porte is definitely great anaerobically. Fast twich fibers is what he lacks mostly.

That doesn't make sense. Fast twitch fibers use anaerobic respiration, slow twitch fibers use aerobic respiration. If he lacks fast twitch fibers, then he's not going to be very good anaerobically (which he isn't).

Fine.

He lacks IIb fibers, he'll prolly have lla fibers, though the majority's gonna be type l muscle fibers.

He's gonna have some buffer capacity.

Of course. He's a WT road racer, they all have some kind of anaerobic ability - and would destroy nearly all amateurs at short durations. But its certainly not a strength of his in comparison to the other riders. He's a climber (best at efforts 10min - 30min) and a long distance TTist - both of which require largely steady aerobic efforts.

A flat prologue or short TT is much different. It's about punching out of corners and sprinting up to top speed repeatedly, holding it for a km or 2, then repeating at the next corner. This needs really high 30 sec - 1 minute power. Porte, Quintana, Froome, Contador and most other GC guys just aren't very good at this relative to the much of the peloton.

 

[Moviestar]

Nairo is ready to rumble.

After the Giro he stayed in his base Monaco to train ( his decision). His training data at the Col de Madone have bluffed the training staff. According to Mikel Zabala, coach of Movistar, he has produced more watts than the previous years and his data hasn't been better as yet.

http://ciclismo.as.com/ciclismo/2017/06/26/tour_francia/1498495489_951525.html

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Nairo is ready to rumble.

After the Giro he stayed in his base Monaco to train ( his decision). His training data at the Col de Madone have bluffed the training staff. According to Mikel Zabala, coach of Movistar, he has produced more watts than the previous years and his data hasn't been better as yet.

http://ciclismo.as.com/ciclismo/2017/06/26/tour_francia/1498495489_951525.html

Sounds promising, but I tend to think it's all talk until we see it on the road. Even if his numbers were rubbish and the team had decided to go all in behind Valverde, you would expect them to say exactly the same, about how Quintana is flying, to try to blindside the other teams.

 

[AlexNYC]

Also, in the same interview Zabala mentioned that Quintana's numbers right before last year's Tour were very good too, and we know how the race turned out. In fact, I think even Nairo would hesitate to tell you how well he'll go.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Yeah, things like that are always difficult. Contador seemingly always has better numbers.. well, they might speak the truth, but its still just so much more than numbers. Recovery, endurance etc. obviously play a huge role - you might be able to smash it up Madone one time, but fortunately cycling is more than just that. Porte is a perfect example of just that.

 

[Escarabajo]

The only thing different that I care for that Quintana did is that he didn't train home. That he didn't go back. That he stayed away from the disturbing fans, public and crowds trying to follow him. About the numbers is always some PR involved.

 

[DFA123]

Interesting choice for Quintana and the team now. They seem to have picked up a team to control and dominate flat stages, with Valverde pretty much the only elite support for Nairo in the mountains.

Perhaps there is a bit more pressure now, without Valverde, to make somthing happen on one of the flatter days. Try to cause some splits.

 

[MatParker117]

Re:

Interesting choice for Quintana and the team now. They seem to have picked up a team to control and dominate flat stages, with Valverde pretty much the only elite support for Nairo in the mountains.

Perhaps there is a bit more pressure now, without Valverde, to make somthing happen on one of the flatter days. Try to cause some splits.

With the flat engines that Sky, Trek and BMC bought, how?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Interesting choice for Quintana and the team now. They seem to have picked up a team to control and dominate flat stages, with Valverde pretty much the only elite support for Nairo in the mountains.

Perhaps there is a bit more pressure now, without Valverde, to make somthing happen on one of the flatter days. Try to cause some splits.

With the flat engines that Sky, Trek and BMC bought, how?

The same way it always happens. One team initiates a move, two or three others join, and they try to stay away. Of course it won't work if all other GC contender's teams are caught behind the split, but if 2 or 3 get together, the other one would be in big trouble.

 

[deValtos]

Valverde is the way bigger loss than 36 seconds or w/e it was. That's actually a decent prologue I think.

Problem is if Nairo tells his team "I've got the legs guys, hit the front" how fast is the Movistar train going to go up the mountain? I can invisage 5 sky riders there after Betancur/Amador are done.

 

[silvergrenade]

The problem with that is that Quintana should also have what it takes to really go on the flats.
Which I dont think he has. He is the weakest GC contender on the flats(Bardet?)

 

[DFA123]

Re:

The problem with that is that Quintana should also have what it takes to really go on the flats.
Which I dont think he has. He is the weakest GC contender on the flats(Bardet?)

Definitely, but one of his big cards in the mountains has gone now, so they might have to try something out of the box. It's hard to see Quintana taking two minutes out of Froome in the mountains all by himself against the SKy train.

One of the complete flat stages could be too much, but the few rolling ones - or even that dreadful stage 13 to Foix - could be opportunities.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Movistar doesn't really have anything going for them now that Valverde is done for, Quintana needs to be significantly stronger than a full-peak Froome with a monster-team. Not gonna happen for Quintana, not gonna happen for Contador, not gonna happen Porte or whatever. The race is as close to done and dusted after 1 stage taken everything into consideration.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Movistar doesn't really have anything going for them now that Valverde is done for, Quintana needs to be significantly stronger than a full-peak Froome with a monster-team. Not gonna happen for Quintana, not gonna happen for Contador, not gonna happen Porte or whatever. The race is as close to done and dusted after 1 stage taken everything into consideration.

Yep, it does look that way. Looking at it I almost thing someone like Aru might have the best chance. Someone who could still sneak under the radar enough to be allowed a bit of time, and who is often very strong towards the end of the race.

Quintana should try something on the rolling stages, imo, but I think he's fighting for 2nd place now.

 

[bajbar]

Re:

Movistar doesn't really have anything going for them now that Valverde is done for, Quintana needs to be significantly stronger than a full-peak Froome with a monster-team. Not gonna happen for Quintana, not gonna happen for Contador, not gonna happen Porte or whatever. The race is as close to done and dusted after 1 stage taken everything into consideration.

Unless something happens to Froome. Then this Tour becomes the most interesting in years.

 

[silvergrenade]

Re:

Movistar doesn't really have anything going for them now that Valverde is done for, Quintana needs to be significantly stronger than a full-peak Froome with a monster-team. Not gonna happen for Quintana, not gonna happen for Contador, not gonna happen Porte or whatever. The race is as close to done and dusted after 1 stage taken everything into consideration.

Man, dont say that.
Everybody wants to see an entertaining race. Not a procession to Paris. Meh....

 

[Escarabajo]

Come down guys. It is not the end of the world. It is what it is!

 

[sir fly]

Hard to find anything positive in Valverde's abandonment, but Nairo's options came down solely on his abilities.
Maybe that's the positive.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Come down guys. Is not the end of the world. It is what it is!

It just all feels a bit like the Indurain or Armstrong eras. And I'm not making any clinic references or insinuations here, just about the inevitability of the outcome of the race from a very early stage.

This year there were some possibilites for something different. The Quintana/Valverde duo creating havoc, or Porte gaining 30 seconds in the first TT. But now the strongest rider, with by far the strongest team, already has a decent advantage.

I think the only way Froome could lose it (apart from the ever present caveat of crashes!) is some kind of Formigal scenario, where he loses 2or 3 minutes unexpectedly on an innocuous looking stage. But he will be so attentive to that now.

Will be interesting to see if Quintana even tries anything serious, or just rides for 2nd place now.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Come down guys. Is not the end of the world. It is what it is!

It just all feels a bit like the Indurain or Armstrong eras. And I'm not making any clinic references or insinuations here, just about the inevitability of the outcome of the race from a very early stage.

This year there were some possibilites for something different. The Quintana/Valverde duo creating havoc, or Porte gaining 30 seconds in the first TT. But now the strongest rider, with by far the strongest team, already has a decent advantage.

I think the only way Froome could lose it (apart from the ever present caveat of crashes!) is some kind of Formigal scenario, where he loses 2or 3 minutes unexpectedly on an innocuous looking stage. But he will be so attentive to that now.

Will be interesting to see if Quintana even tries anything serious, or just rides for 2nd place now.

Pretty much. Depressing, but we also had some great editions in the Lance-era. I have no problem with a clear cut winner as long as the racing will be good otherwise, take 2005 as an example, but I don't see that happening either.

That said, since its the Quintana-thread, a very decent effort today.

 

[AlexNYC]

Well, this Giro couldn't have started much worse for Movistar. I don't know how much Nairo knew about Bala's fall but he looked a little spooked around a couple of corners. One silver lining to all this, maybe the only one, is that Unzue's playbook is effectively useless now and Nairo will have to risk and improvise a lot more if he wants to win this race.

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Come down guys. Is not the end of the world. It is what it is!

It just all feels a bit like the Indurain or Armstrong eras. And I'm not making any clinic references or insinuations here, just about the inevitability of the outcome of the race from a very early stage.

This year there were some possibilites for something different. The Quintana/Valverde duo creating havoc, or Porte gaining 30 seconds in the first TT. But now the strongest rider, with by far the strongest team, already has a decent advantage.

I think the only way Froome could lose it (apart from the ever present caveat of crashes!) is some kind of Formigal scenario, where he loses 2or 3 minutes unexpectedly on an innocuous looking stage. But he will be so attentive to that now.

Will be interesting to see if Quintana even tries anything serious, or just rides for 2nd place now.

Pretty much. Depressing, but we also had some great editions in the Lance-era. I have no problem with a clear cut winner as long as the racing will be good otherwise, take 2005 as an example, but I don't see that happening either.

That said, since its the Quintana-thread, a very decent effort today.

Apart from 2003 everything else was a borefest. Even 2000 became so stupid when Pantani retired. LOL.

 

[MovistarRider]

The only good thing I could make out of Alejandro crashing, is that Movistar and Nairo don't have any other option than to go all-out attacking from stage 2 onwards. Nairo himself admitted before this TT that he would have to attack more than he did in the last 3 TDF editions to stand any chance. With Alejandro now out that attacking mentality now has to become even more attacking.

But where and when and how can Nairo do Froome some damage? You tell me. This doesn't look good at all.

 

[Jelantik]

Re:

The only good thing I could make out of Alejandro crashing, is that Movistar and Nairo don't have any other option than to go all-out attacking from stage 2 onwards. Nairo himself admitted before this TT that he would have to attack more than he did in the last 3 TDF editions to stand any chance. With Alejandro now out that attacking mentality now has to become even more attacking.

But where and when and how can Nairo do Froome some damage? You tell me. This doesn't look good at all.

meh. quintana said that every year, but still he never seemed to risk everything. He didn't win the giro, so now his pressure is on to win TDF. With Valverde out, his task is just getting much harder, especially when now Froome is already ahead by 30 seconds. With strong team, I don't think mountain will be the best way to take time from Froome, unless quitana has a monster form that we didn't know about.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

The only good thing I could make out of Alejandro crashing, is that Movistar and Nairo don't have any other option than to go all-out attacking from stage 2 onwards. Nairo himself admitted before this TT that he would have to attack more than he did in the last 3 TDF editions to stand any chance. With Alejandro now out that attacking mentality now has to become even more attacking.

But where and when and how can Nairo do Froome some damage? You tell me. This doesn't look good at all.

He'll probably give it a short on stage 18.