Nairo Quintana discussion thread

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jaylew said:
Koronin said:
You realize that Latin America refers to basically all countries of both Central and South America, correct? Also couldn't remember if it was Dominican or if there were players from other countries involved as well. The reason for my original post was to show that this type of thing HAS HAPPENED, but that's not what YOU want to read. At this point, you want to complain about wording and not care that lying about age is something that HAS happened in sports in the past. If it's happened in place it COULD happen in other places. Doesn't mean it has, but it is out there. There were comments stating that this has NEVER happened, which would incorrect as it HAS happened. By the way, when you say Latin America anyone who is from Europe would in no way be included in that.
I think his point is that he doesn't understand why people are linking the Dominican Republic with Columbia for some reason and saying that because something is happening in one it could be happening in the other.

The reason I brought it up was simply to show that it has happened. Didn't make any difference what country that did it, just that it has happened so it's not impossible for it to happen again. Apparently because it didn't happen in that country means it can't happen there.
 
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I only interpreted what you typed, not what you meant, and you clarified that. Here is the way I read the thread: 1) Comment is made that Quintana has the face of an old man. 2) People respond saying that enough of that, there is at minimum a level of ignorance with that comment and people take offense to that (using the same analogy that all white people look the same or all asians look the same or all blacks look the same. They do NOT, you can totally tell people apart from their features and people that make those comments don't really care enough to pay attention. Same with age and Quintana). 3) a response is made that Nairo probably faked his birth certificate to validate the fact that he looks old to that person. 4) a comment is made that is totally possible for Colombians to do that because they have done it in MLB. 4) I call bullshit, cite that it never happened and that therefore it is an invalid argument to justify "Nairo being older". 5) It is then cited that you didn't mean Colombians, you meant "Latins". 6) I call bullshit on that.. 7) It is then cited that, no, I didn't mean "Latins", you meant "Latin Americans".

My last comment on this as this is getting out of control. There is evidence of people faking birth certificates, most known is people from Laos who practice having two birthdays, a Laotian birthday and an American birthday..This is mostly done for immigration reasons, speaking from experience. There is also many cited cases of Chinese athletes faking their age for Olympic qualification and of Dominican baseball players to get into MLB. There is also plenty of evidence that some Brazilian soccer players (the closest to Colombia) that have done this to look better against younger players, mainly for a chance at a better life. There has been NO cases of Colombians faking their birth certificate for any reason.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and backtrack and accept that you meant IN GENERAL some people have faked their age.

That's independent of the three things I wanted to point out and will continue to point out:
1) Lumping any country together because of common language is wrong; USA, England, Ireland, Wales, Canada and Australia all speak different dialects of English. Sometimes they can easily communicate with each other, sometimes they cannot. Same goes with spanish.
2) Lumping countries together for GENERAL proximity is wrong. Mexico, Canada, USA (what used to be the NAFTA countries) have completely different cultures. Dominican republic is much closer to USA than to Colombia. Different cultures. Haiti and DR LITERALLY border each other. Completely different cultures.
3) Making comments about someone like Nairo being old just because you can't really understand his facial features is a bit ignorant and continuing to do so over and over again is borderline racist. Using a birth certificate conspiracy theory to try to validate that isn't helping.
 
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gospina said:
I only interpreted what you typed, not what you meant, and you clarified that. Here is the way I read the thread: 1) Comment is made that Quintana has the face of an old man. 2) People respond saying that enough of that, there is at minimum a level of ignorance with that comment and people take offense to that (using the same analogy that all white people look the same or all asians look the same or all blacks look the same. They do NOT, you can totally tell people apart from their features and people that make those comments don't really care enough to pay attention. Same with age and Quintana). 3) a response is made that Nairo probably faked his birth certificate to validate the fact that he looks old to that person. 4) a comment is made that is totally possible for Colombians to do that because they have done it in MLB. 4) I call bullshit, cite that it never happened and that therefore it is an invalid argument to justify "Nairo being older". 5) It is then cited that you didn't mean Colombians, you meant "Latins". 6) I call bullshit on that.. 7) It is then cited that, no, I didn't mean "Latins", you meant "Latin Americans".

My last comment on this as this is getting out of control. There is evidence of people faking birth certificates, most known is people from Laos who practice having two birthdays, a Laotian birthday and an American birthday..This is mostly done for immigration reasons, speaking from experience. There is also many cited cases of Chinese athletes faking their age for Olympic qualification and of Dominican baseball players to get into MLB. There is also plenty of evidence that some Brazilian soccer players (the closest to Colombia) that have done this to look better against younger players, mainly for a chance at a better life. There has been NO cases of Colombians faking their birth certificate for any reason.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and backtrack and accept that you meant IN GENERAL some people have faked their age.

That's independent of the three things I wanted to point out and will continue to point out:
1) Lumping any country together because of common language is wrong; USA, England, Ireland, Wales, Canada and Australia all speak different dialects of English. Sometimes they can easily communicate with each other, sometimes they cannot. Same goes with spanish.
2) Lumping countries together for GENERAL proximity is wrong. Mexico, Canada, USA (what used to be the NAFTA countries) have completely different cultures. Dominican republic is much closer to USA than to Colombia. Different cultures. Haiti and DR LITERALLY border each other. Completely different cultures.
3) Making comments about someone like Nairo being old just because you can't really understand his facial features is a bit ignorant and continuing to do so over and over again is borderline racist. Using a birth certificate conspiracy theory to try to validate that isn't helping.

The original thing I said was South America and meant Latin America. Who the F knew you had t0 re type literally EVERYTHING because some people can't figure out on their OWN that it is part of the SAME conversation and a swap of words in a specific SENTENCE is what was going on. Thanks for proving you got lost in that and from this point I will NOT continue this conversation because it is now 100% POINTLESS. You are proving you are wanting to find fault with EVERYTHING. I'm calling BS on YOUR not being able to comprehend things and instead WANTING to make a HUGE mountain out of what was NOTHING. I will NOT be responding to ANYTHING else YOU say.
 

Irondan

Moderator
The conversation discussing Nairo’s “Face of an old man” needs to stop right away please, I find it too close to the “racial” line for comfort and will delete and ban the next mention of the subject.

Sorry to sound so heavy handed, especially since I have not posted much lately but I was thouroughly surprised at the tone of that line of discussion and hope that it’s an innocent mistake in judgement. For now, that’s what I’ll go with.

Cheers!
 
all these age-related innuendos are immensely distorted by our personal perception. yes, while being a top class rider quintana pretty much never looked really young and fresh by caucasian standarts, it's true. but how do we know the way people of quintana's hynotype should look like at 20, 25, 30? Obviously they look older than most of us as they got accustomed to work really hard from very young age. I personally don't buy this age thingy.
 
Bit gutted to see him riding like this. Not sure if it's himself that's not right, the way the team operates or a bit of both. Wonder what his goals will be if/when he goes to Samsic, whether it's KOM/stage wins in GT's or shorter stage races where he may have a chance without a decent team backup. I really think that Mas going to Movistar is gonna be a big mistake, hope I'm wrong for his sake.
 
Jul 29, 2016
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Ladies and gentlemans can you stop spam this thread with non-sense and unrelated stuff. I would like to find out information about Nairo, not exhibition of in particular gospina and carton.

PS: Everyone has the right to have opinion, if you do not like other have opinions, do not waste your time on board and just do a blog and forbid comments you will be more than happy.
 
Re:

lartiste said:
Ladies and gentlemans can you stop spam this thread with non-sense and unrelated stuff. I would like to find out information about Nairo, not exhibition of in particular gospina and carton.

PS: Everyone has the right to have opinion, if you do not like other have opinions, do not waste your time on board and just do a blog and forbid comments you will be more than happy.
I can give you information on Nairo...

... he’s sh!t and not a very good team mate, his team and team mates deserve better from him, but they won’t get anything from him as he’s too self centred..
 
Getting back on track. I'm incredibly sad, when he broke through he looked like he could do whatever he wanted in the mountains for the next 10 years. He was the anti sky/Froome, someone who at his best could counter the train. Now he cant even top 10 in a grand tour with a distinctly average field. I hope the change of team reinvigorates him.
 
Jul 29, 2016
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Singer01 said:
Getting back on track. I'm incredibly sad, when he broke through he looked like he could do whatever he wanted in the mountains for the next 10 years. He was the anti sky/Froome, someone who at his best could counter the train. Now he cant even top 10 in a grand tour with a distinctly average field. I hope the change of team reinvigorates him.
This is in my opinion one of the reasons people's standpoint toward Nairo, he was our only hope to destroy the empire, ,and he never fullfile the expectations .... .
 
Jul 29, 2016
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Re: Re:

rick james said:
lartiste said:
Ladies and gentlemans can you stop spam this thread with non-sense and unrelated stuff. I would like to find out information about Nairo, not exhibition of in particular gospina and carton.

PS: Everyone has the right to have opinion, if you do not like other have opinions, do not waste your time on board and just do a blog and forbid comments you will be more than happy.
I can give you information on Nairo...

... he’s **** and not a very good team mate, his team and team mates deserve better from him, but they won’t get anything from him as he’s too self centred..
They are trying to get along somehow. Have you seen the vid yesterday?
 
wheresmybrakes said:
Bit gutted to see him riding like this. Not sure if it's himself that's not right, the way the team operates or a bit of both. Wonder what his goals will be if/when he goes to Samsic, whether it's KOM/stage wins in GT's or shorter stage races where he may have a chance without a decent team backup. I really think that Mas going to Movistar is gonna be a big mistake, hope I'm wrong for his sake.
Actually it is a best team for him, by far.
 
Re: Re:

lartiste said:
rick james said:
lartiste said:
Ladies and gentlemans can you stop spam this thread with non-sense and unrelated stuff. I would like to find out information about Nairo, not exhibition of in particular gospina and carton.

PS: Everyone has the right to have opinion, if you do not like other have opinions, do not waste your time on board and just do a blog and forbid comments you will be more than happy.
I can give you information on Nairo...

... he’s **** and not a very good team mate, his team and team mates deserve better from him, but they won’t get anything from him as he’s too self centred..
They are trying to get along somehow. Have you seen the vid yesterday?
Bah he just lay there doing nothing while Landa did all the work as usual ;)
 
Blanco said:
wheresmybrakes said:
Bit gutted to see him riding like this. Not sure if it's himself that's not right, the way the team operates or a bit of both. Wonder what his goals will be if/when he goes to Samsic, whether it's KOM/stage wins in GT's or shorter stage races where he may have a chance without a decent team backup. I really think that Mas going to Movistar is gonna be a big mistake, hope I'm wrong for his sake.
Actually it is a best team for him, by far.
Better than DQS for GT's I agree. I think there's more to all this Movistar/NQ story than is being put out. It's a shame he has gone on such a downward spiral since his early days. Love to be a fly on the wall of the team bus after races.
 
Jul 29, 2016
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Re: Re:

Tigerion said:
lartiste said:
rick james said:
lartiste said:
Ladies and gentlemans can you stop spam this thread with non-sense and unrelated stuff. I would like to find out information about Nairo, not exhibition of in particular gospina and carton.

PS: Everyone has the right to have opinion, if you do not like other have opinions, do not waste your time on board and just do a blog and forbid comments you will be more than happy.
I can give you information on Nairo...

... he’s **** and not a very good team mate, his team and team mates deserve better from him, but they won’t get anything from him as he’s too self centred..
They are trying to get along somehow. Have you seen the vid yesterday?
Bah he just lay there doing nothing while Landa did all the work as usual ;)

:lol:
 
Jan 8, 2013
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Re: Re:

Tigerion said:
lartiste said:
rick james said:
lartiste said:
Ladies and gentlemans can you stop spam this thread with non-sense and unrelated stuff. I would like to find out information about Nairo, not exhibition of in particular gospina and carton.

PS: Everyone has the right to have opinion, if you do not like other have opinions, do not waste your time on board and just do a blog and forbid comments you will be more than happy.
I can give you information on Nairo...

... he’s **** and not a very good team mate, his team and team mates deserve better from him, but they won’t get anything from him as he’s too self centred..
They are trying to get along somehow. Have you seen the vid yesterday?
Bah he just lay there doing nothing while Landa did all the work as usual ;)
Ha! that's funny. That video made the whole thing even sadder, to be honest. Just force them to pretend to get along. I'm sure they'll be friendly to each other after they go their separate ways but right now there is too much frustration. That minute+ lost yesterday was just pouring lemon juice on wound. Maybe stage hunting the next few days? Valverde should totally go for one, Landa for the other and Nairo...let's just hope he doesn't abandon.
 
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Singer01 said:
Getting back on track. I'm incredibly sad, when he broke through he looked like he could do whatever he wanted in the mountains for the next 10 years. He was the anti sky/Froome, someone who at his best could counter the train. Now he cant even top 10 in a grand tour with a distinctly average field. I hope the change of team reinvigorates him.

It may be too late at this point. He likely should have switched teams 2-3 years ago.
 
Re: Re:

Amazinmets87 said:
Fergoose said:
There is nothing unusual about a human losing some physical shape aged 29. Horner, Valverde, Vinokourov and Longo all enjoyed a lot of success in their late 30s and beyond, but that shouldn't make anyone think that that is the norm.
No, at 29 a road cyclist should be at their peak.
I don't believe you can conclude that with any confidence at all given the sports clinic related periods (where other factors may have offset the ageing process - if I'm allowed to say that). In my opinion retaining peak performance as you approach your thirties isn't consistently replicated in endurance athletics or endurance swimming (from what I've historically seen) and I personally consider it a bit of a myth.

Take some recent GC examples (which admittedly may be proven wrong in the coming years if form improves, but I dont think so):

Bardet's results have gone downhill since he was 27
Adam Yates since 24
Esteban Chavez since 26
Fabio Aru since he was 25 (or 27)
Bauke Mollema since he was 28

Bernal is competing for TdF victory aged 22 and guys like Bardet and Pinot were competing at the top level at a similar age. Within reason, age is no barrier to excellence in endurance and entropy can slowly have an impact on all of us at any point after our physiological peak in our early 20s. Some will thrive even as they turn 30, others like Quintana appear less fortunate.
 
Re: Re:

Fergoose said:
Amazinmets87 said:
Fergoose said:
There is nothing unusual about a human losing some physical shape aged 29. Horner, Valverde, Vinokourov and Longo all enjoyed a lot of success in their late 30s and beyond, but that shouldn't make anyone think that that is the norm.
No, at 29 a road cyclist should be at their peak.
I don't believe you can conclude that with any confidence at all given the sports clinic related periods (where other factors may have offset the ageing process - if I'm allowed to say that). In my opinion retaining peak performance as you approach your thirties isn't consistently replicated in endurance athletics or endurance swimming (from what I've historically seen) and I personally consider it a bit of a myth.

Take some recent GC examples (which admittedly may be proven wrong in the coming years if form improves, but I dont think so):

Bardet's results have gone downhill since he was 27
Adam Yates since 24
Esteban Chavez since 26
Fabio Aru since he was 25 (or 27)
Bauke Mollema since he was 28

Bernal is competing for TdF victory aged 22 and guys like Bardet and Pinot were competing at the top level at a similar age. Within reason, age is no barrier to excellence in endurance and entropy can slowly have an impact on all of us at any point after our physiological peak in our early 20s. Some will thrive even as they turn 30, others like Quintana appear less fortunate.

Well Esteban Chavez has been injury prone.
 
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Escarabajo said:
The 29 yrs peak sounds more in line with the modern era of cycling post 90's. Before if I can remember correctly the peak was before that.
I think it has always been all over the place, but, in general, most riders seem to have peaked between their early-to-mid-twenties up to their late twenties to very early thirties and faded fast afterward.

Merckx's had just turned 29 at what was to be his last GT win. His only win of note after turning 30 was his last Milan-San Remo (at 30), though he did place 6th at the 1977 Tour shortly after turning 32. Bartali won his last Milan San Remo at 35, and he almost podiumed at both the Tour and the Giro at 38. Anquetil won his last Tour at 30 and had his last major results at 33. Indurain and Hinault, 31 and 32 for their both last GTs and major results. Among the more notable but less dominant riders, Joop Zoetemelk won his rainbow bands shortly before turning 39. Charly Gaul's last major results were at 28. The Delgado/Hinault/LeMond/Herrera generation seemed to fade particularly early.
 
Generally I think the duration at the very top is more consistent than the specific age at which a rider breaks through.

And by generally I am already excluding Valverde.

Would be interesting to look at ages between first and last GT top 10, first and last GT podium of riders of a similar calibre to Quintana.
 

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