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Yes, great post. The article discussing the shortcomings of Kaep and RG are spot on. The only thing I would add to what they said is I have always thought both players made poor decisions, even when things were going relatively well for them or their teams. That includes their decisions to escape the pocket and run for life, which is what both have done. Both have taken chances and have exposed themselves far too much. Kaep has been lucky to escape serious injury, but it will catch up with him if he keeps playing that way. RG was not so lucky. The article points out the difference between them and Wilson and Cam is their physical attributes. But by far the biggest difference with Wilson is he runs smart by not exposing himself to get an extra yard. Wilson slides and gets out of bounds before he takes hits, unless the situation calls for laying himself out (e.g. mostly just playoff games and the team is behind and needing a big play). RG and Kaep learned in college, where the game is slower, that they could play that way and get away with it. But they don't seem to have learned they cannot get away with it for too long in the NFL where everyone is faster where the effect of F = M*A is more harsh.
 
If that were not the case, then Tim Tebow would still be in the league. The fact is, the development of plays is just much quicker in the NFL, especially among the linebackers. But also in safeties, and when DE's drop back into short coverage. The read option (with a run option) was a very good tool for teams to use at certain times. But it has been shown that it can't be part of every series of downs in every game. The QB simply can't hold up. And a team with solid defense, especially at the LB position, can stop it. Look at the Super Bowl for a perfect example.

For years fans have clamored for a running QB to "finally" make it in the NFL. And they usually point out to young, athletic QB's who the NFL wasn't used to, and got surprised by for a short period of time. But time and again these running QB's either don't last, the league adjusts to them, or they have a good enough arm and smarts to adapt and change (Steve Young comes to mind). Some keep the run in their back pocket, and that's how Cam, and Russell Wilson play. Alex Smith does too, to an extent. But these QBs beat you in other ways, with the pass. In this regard, I can see Cam, who as big and tough as he was, was looking beat up in the Super Bowl, will need to develop into a Big Ben type QB, who uses his size to keep plays alive. Ben can't run anymore, and that may be the future for Cam too. I think he can do this, fwiw.

As to Kaep, I'm not going to dig up the post, but back when the 49ers first started playing him I repeated an evaluation that was made on him in college. He did not make quick enough reads through his progressions before making decisions and would often not see what he liked, and take off and run. He didn't change much when he got to the NFL. Though until teams adapted, he got away with it. It was really Baltimore (with Lewis and Suggs playing LB) in that Super Bowl that burst that bubble and put an end to his free reign. He didn't have a bad game, but not the game many expected, and they rightfully lost. As to his windup, he may never be Philip Rivers, but I don't think it's that big of an issue compared to the other ones he has. Other QBs with slow deliveries have done fine in the NFL, it's his decision making is what needs to change. Put another way, he's not Aaron Rodgers, and he never will be. But he needs to get his head around seeing the field and looking into the empty spaces where his receivers are going to be open better.

What RG3 has to do is learn how to be a passer who can move within the pocket, and when he does see a lane to run, use it, but slide to finish the play. Can he do that? He has never shown an ability or desire to do so in his career yet, as the article mentions. But he's a sharp guy, and I think a bit humbled last year sitting on the bench. He also seemed to support Kirk Cousins as the season went on. Was he just playing it up? Putting up with it? Friends with Kirk? Or was he really thinking "damn, I better pay attention after all"? No one knows. I do think he needs to be on a team where he can fit, and likely sit for this coming season. Dallas? Maybe. He doesn't move in the pocket like Romo does. Houston? I'm not sure. He'd be expected to start from day one. I think he needs to sit, and learn a system. Cleveland? You'd have to ask Hugh, but I think they want a fresh start, with nice guy McCown grooming a draft pick.

As to Brady's appeal, what a load of crap. I can't believe the NFL is still going through with this. Goodell's ego must still be really hurt. I'll say what I did before, this should have been an equipment tampering penalty during the game (15 yards from the next play from scrimmage), and a fine for each ball determined tampered with. That's it. To accuse one of the best players in NFL history of being a cheater and liar, and seeking to suspend him the same amount as wife beaters, based on the theory that he was "generally aware" of balls being deflated is absurd.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
As to Kaep, I'm not going to dig up the post, but back when the 49ers first started playing him I repeated an evaluation that was made on him in college. He did not make quick enough reads through his progressions before making decisions and would often not see what he liked, and take off and run. He didn't change much when he got to the NFL. Though until teams adapted, he got away with it. It was really Baltimore (with Lewis and Suggs playing LB) in that Super Bowl that burst that bubble and put an end to his free reign. He didn't have a bad game, but not the game many expected, and they rightfully lost. As to his windup, he may never be Philip Rivers, but I don't think it's that big of an issue compared to the other ones he has. Other QBs with slow deliveries have done fine in the NFL, it's his decision making is what needs to change. Put another way, he's not Aaron Rodgers, and he never will be. But he needs to get his head around seeing the field and looking into the empty spaces where his receivers are going to be open better.

As to Brady's appeal, what a load of crap. I can't believe the NFL is still going through with this. Goodell's ego must still be really hurt. I'll say what I did before, this should have been an equipment tampering penalty during the game (15 yards from the next play from scrimmage), and a fine for each ball determined tampered with. That's it. To accuse one of the best players in NFL history of being a cheater and liar, and seeking to suspend him the same amount as wife beaters, based on the theory that he was "generally aware" of balls being deflated is absurd.
I think that Kaep misses open receivers because he is looking for the running lane first. I think that RG III CAN be a better NFL QB than Kaep, and likely be a top 16 QB in the correct system with the correct guidance.

I still agree with you about the low psi balls. The refs blew it, and the NFL has really blown it.
 
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jmdirt said:
Alpe d'Huez said:
As to Kaep, I'm not going to dig up the post, but back when the 49ers first started playing him I repeated an evaluation that was made on him in college. He did not make quick enough reads through his progressions before making decisions and would often not see what he liked, and take off and run. He didn't change much when he got to the NFL. Though until teams adapted, he got away with it. It was really Baltimore (with Lewis and Suggs playing LB) in that Super Bowl that burst that bubble and put an end to his free reign. He didn't have a bad game, but not the game many expected, and they rightfully lost. As to his windup, he may never be Philip Rivers, but I don't think it's that big of an issue compared to the other ones he has. Other QBs with slow deliveries have done fine in the NFL, it's his decision making is what needs to change. Put another way, he's not Aaron Rodgers, and he never will be. But he needs to get his head around seeing the field and looking into the empty spaces where his receivers are going to be open better.

As to Brady's appeal, what a load of crap. I can't believe the NFL is still going through with this. Goodell's ego must still be really hurt. I'll say what I did before, this should have been an equipment tampering penalty during the game (15 yards from the next play from scrimmage), and a fine for each ball determined tampered with. That's it. To accuse one of the best players in NFL history of being a cheater and liar, and seeking to suspend him the same amount as wife beaters, based on the theory that he was "generally aware" of balls being deflated is absurd.
I think that Kaep misses open receivers because he is looking for the running lane first. I think that RG III CAN be a better NFL QB than Kaep, and likely be a top 16 QB in the correct system with the correct guidance.

I still agree with you about the low psi balls. The refs blew it, and the NFL has really blown it.

Some people think that RG3 is now a liability because of his injuries and Kaep has just lost the plot performance wise and it will be hard for him to be placed elsewhere. The year the 49ers last made the Super Bowl they had a much better team than the one they have now so Kaep was getting much better protection and of course had a different coach. People seemed to love Harbaugh or hate him. The only time Kaep seemed confident last season was when he was running the ball. His throwing, field vision and decision making was terrible plus he had no Offensive Line to speak of or one that played badly for most of the season.
 
It was only a question if they could get something for him, and the answer was no. RGIII has been cut by Washington. There was no way they were going to keep him and eat his extension. This has to be one of more difficult pills for any team to swallow. Desperate for a franchise QB, the Skins sent a haul of draft picks to the Rams, and after one amazing rookie season and ROY awards, he's been hurt, prone to injury, or even more prone to poor decisions on and off the field. Depending on how you look at it, Washington either completely blew it, or there is a silver lining in that they may have gotten a franchise QB in that same draft in Kirk Cousins down in the 4th round. The Rams wheeled and dealed with many of those picks they got from Washington so it's impossible to do an apples to apples comparison, but in hindsight, this was one lopsided trade in favor of the Rams.

As that excellent article Merckx pointed to, there has to be questions for any team if RGIII can even play in the league. A combination of injuries, and lack of NFL development (coupled with a closed mind perhaps), may seal his fate. I have to say this though, if I were a team looking for a back-up, I'd certainly take him over Johnny Manziel.

Washington is also set to release Jason Hatcher.

It looks like Ryan Fitzpatrick is going to test the open market. This is a smart move if he's looking for cash, because the other top free agent QB is...Sam Bradford. That's about it. From there, it's a big jump down to Drew Stanton and Chase Daniel on the list. I'm not sure where Blaine Gabbert falls into the free agency contract list. Granted, both Kirk Cousins and Brock Osweiller are on the free agency list, there is no way their teams are letting them go. From there, other names will pop up for release or trade, but they aren't big named either (unless you think Drew Brees will be traded). Zach Mettenberger. EJ Manuel, Geno Smith. And of course RG3 and Kaep.

Things brings up the next question. Who is the Jets QB for this coming season? They won't be able to draft anyone capable of starting on day 1 unless they hit the Russell Wilson type jackpot. Is Bryce Petty ready to compete?
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Things brings up the next question. Who is the Jets QB for this coming season? They won't be able to draft anyone capable of starting on day 1 unless they hit the Russell Wilson type jackpot. Is Bryce Petty ready to compete?
Kaep? I'll just keep tossing his name until it sticks somewhere! :D :rolleyes:

EDIT: I wonder what will happen with Geno Smith?
 
And that's the thing. People wonder how rookies can be expected to play so early, or why someone like Manziel can get taken seriously, it's because there is a glut of quality talent at QB in the NFL. You have 32 spots to fill., and several QBs will not last the season. And some of them will lose so many other offensive weapons that it will impact their playing, perhaps significantly.

It's easy to see why Chip Kelly says he wants two quality QBs on his team. Or at the very least, you want an experienced back-up, who generally plays mistake free. A Matt Hasselback to your Andrew Luck, for example.
 
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Amsterhammer said:
"God bless all of you, and God bless football".

Jesus wept.

Seriously. That was the most grotesque thing I've seen in some time. Say what you will about NFL, they've got the market cornered in grotesque.
 
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Maxiton said:
Amsterhammer said:
"God bless all of you, and God bless football".

Jesus wept.

Seriously. That was the most grotesque thing I've seen in some time. Say what you will about NFL, they've got the market cornered in grotesque.
That's a corny, cliche statement for sure, but grotesque? All of the big money athletes (actors, musicians, CEOs, trust funders, etc...as well) have a distorted view of their place in the big picture.
 
I wouldn't say it's grotesque either. But it is about as sappy and hokey as John Elway telling the crowd "I love you" after winning the Super Bowl. But so be it.

It looks like Murray has landed very quickly in Tennessee in a trade. It looks like Philly is cleaning up after Chip. Both Kiko Alonso and Byron Maxwell were quickly dealt to the Dolphins.

Houston seems to be pushing hard for Brock Osweiller, which has to give Denver some pause, with so few (as in no) quality QBs up for grabs. John Elway likes big names, but I'm not sure where he goes to get one? Trade more of the future for Drew Brees? I'm not sure they can afford him, even after PM's departure.

Bruce Irvin is testing the waters and will get plenty of bites. Early talk is Arizona, but expect Atlanta to give him a good look too, as he reportedly got along very well with Dan Quinn and wanted to play for him again. Though I believe it was Gus Bradley who first worked with him, so I wonder what Gus thinks about him coming to Jax?

Lots of talk of RG3 in Dallas, but it's far from done.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
I wouldn't say it's grotesque either. But it is about as sappy and hokey as John Elway telling the crowd "I love you" after winning the Super Bowl. But so be it.

It looks like Murray has landed very quickly in Tennessee in a trade. It looks like Philly is cleaning up after Chip. Both Kiko Alonso and Byron Maxwell were quickly dealt to the Dolphins.

Houston seems to be pushing hard for Brock Osweiller, which has to give Denver some pause, with so few (as in no) quality QBs up for grabs. John Elway likes big names, but I'm not sure where he goes to get one? Trade more of the future for Drew Brees? I'm not sure they can afford him, even after PM's departure.

Bruce Irvin is testing the waters and will get plenty of bites. Early talk is Arizona, but expect Atlanta to give him a good look too, as he reportedly got along very well with Dan Quinn and wanted to play for him again. Though I believe it was Gus Bradley who first worked with him, so I wonder what Gus thinks about him coming to Jax?

Lots of talk of RG3 in Dallas, but it's far from done.
HMM, if Osweiller jumps, does Den look at RGIII? He's not really Elway's kind of QB, but maybe he could develop with that organization. At first I really thought that he was going to Dallas, but as time passes I think the chances are getting less. Since I said I would keep tossing Kaep out until he sticks, does Den look at him? I don't think that Brees is a good option. I think that Elway should be trying hard to keep Osweiller. He is as good or better than the available options (known options anyway--ie: there might be a Russell Wilson in the draft), he is already part of the team and knows the system.

Murray should fit in nicely with the Titans. Having DeMarco could/should help Mariota.
 
Calvin Johnson saying goodbye.. what a shame! :(

Bruce Irvin teaming up with Khalil Mack in Oakland - dangerous duo.

Malik Jackson chasing the money in Jacksonville, getting a 6-year, 90 million dollar contract with 42 million guaranteed. That's... insane.
Chris Ivory coming along, and reportedly is set to receive more than 6 million a year.

Mario Williams going to Miami for 2 years - where does that leave Vernon and Wake?
 
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52520Andrew said:
Brock Osweiler getting a 4 year 72 million dollar deal to go to Houston. Lots of money
I don't get it from either side.

EDIT: OK, I see Osweiler's side now that I see the difference in money, but I don't think that he is worth those $$. Is that a statement on the level of QBs in the league and the draft?
 
Holy smokes on Osweiller leaving Denver. Wow. After all that time spent grooming him, Denver let him walk away. Talk is that they are looking at Kaepernick now, which is a really risky option. They're also looking at Mike Glennon, which is a peculiar pick. Glennon wasn't known for poor mistakes, but he never showed the ability to throw the ball down the field with any accuracy either. He's also under a nice contract as the back-up on Winston in Tampa, and I don't think the Bucs want to let him leave. I'm curious if or why not, Elway hasn't talked to Fitzpatrick.

Oakland still needs DL (and maybe OL) help, but adding Bruce Irvin to an already stout LB core is a really nice grab. He is going to love playing with Mack, and Mack likely the same in return, as it allows him to move more freely when he sees blocking assignments he likes on passing downs. Irvin is also familiar with Ken Norton Jr, who is the DC for Oakland.

Williams may shine in Miami, playing next to Suh.
 
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Holy smokes on Osweiller leaving Denver. Wow. After all that time spent grooming him, Denver let him walk away. Talk is that they are looking at Kaepernick now, which is a really risky option. They're also looking at Mike Glennon, which is a peculiar pick. Glennon wasn't known for poor mistakes, but he never showed the ability to throw the ball down the field with any accuracy either. He's also under a nice contract as the back-up on Winston in Tampa, and I don't think the Bucs want to let him leave. I'm curious if or why not, Elway hasn't talked to Fitzpatrick.

Oakland still needs DL (and maybe OL) help, but adding Bruce Irvin to an already stout LB core is a really nice grab. He is going to love playing with Mack, and Mack likely the same in return, as it allows him to move more freely when he sees blocking assignments he likes on passing downs. Irvin is also familiar with Ken Norton Jr, who is the DC for Oakland.

Williams may shine in Miami, playing next to Suh.
MAYBE, Denver could be a good landing place for Kaep. When he first took over for Smith, he was really focused on playing from the playbook, while adding his scrambling to the mix. He read the headlines about him being a running QB, so he ran more. His play helped SF to the big game, BUT he started to look for running lanes first, and then see where the receivers ended up...too late, now all he had left was rapidly closing running lanes. So if Knapp and Dennis can coach him up, he can be a top 20 QB, maybe even top 10 next year. Is PM hanging around to help out?
 
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Pretty safe to say that's not happening. Even if Denver is stinging right now for not having any QB. They will have to use a short-term fix at QB and hope to draft someone to groom. And this is a terrible draft class at QB. I can see Wentz going in the first round, but I would not pick any of the others in the first round.

Speaking of stinging, John "Jack wagon" Elway's parting shot at Osweiller sounds a lot like sour grapes:
"We've stayed true to our philosophy of building a team with players who want to be Denver Broncos and want to be here."
Gee, John. If that were true what the crap did you offer Osweiller a contract for?

Back to Houston and Osweiller, right you guys are the 4-year, $72M ($18M/year) is heavily overpaying for such a limited resume (7 career starts). As Mooch Mariuchi said today, "Desperate times call for desperate measures". That's a statement I do not agree with. Teams that practice that are typically not good teams.
 
Re:

Alpe d'Huez said:
Oakland still needs DL (and maybe OL) help, but adding Bruce Irvin to an already stout LB core is a really nice grab. He is going to love playing with Mack, and Mack likely the same in return, as it allows him to move more freely when he sees blocking assignments he likes on passing downs. Irvin is also familiar with Ken Norton Jr, who is the DC for Oakland.
I think the Bruce Irvin move to the Raiders is a win-win-win deal. A win for Oakland (teaming with Mack), a win for Bruce financially, and a win for Seattle. Huh, for Seattle you say? Well, Hawks have about $35M cap space before Irvin and Mebane's (to SD) departures, but that is not near the huge cap space Oakland has (guessing in the $50-$60M range). Irvin is pretty athletic, but he's not as explosive off the edge since he put on bulk, and he's just average in coverage and often gets picked on in short pass routes. Seattle was not going to pay $9M/year for that. Seattle did not use him as an every down player, so maybe he will benefit from extra reps in Oakland if they give him more snaps.
 

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