National Football League

[leftover pie]

Elway to come out of retirement and QB the broncos himself.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I was thinking that over the past few years the NFL overall first round picks have either been QBs, LOTs, or DEs. So i looked it up. More like decades that a few years, with exception of one WR and one RB. Here's the list with last name highlighted if I felt they were a bust. If their NFL career did not work out due to injury, that is noted. Their careers are off the top of my head, so I may have a few calls wrong whether they were bust or not.
[edit: OOPS... missed a few DTs in list below. Still.....]

1989 Troy Aikman QB UCLA Cowboys
1990 Jeff George QB Illinois Colts
1991 Russell Maryland DT Miami (FL) Cowboys
1992 Steve Emtman DT Washington Colts (injury bust)
1993 Drew Bledsoe QB Washington State Patriots
1994 Dan Wilkinson DT Ohio State Bengals
1995 Ki-Jana Carter RB Penn State Bengals (injury bust)
1996 Keyshawn Johnson WR USC Jets
1997 Orlando Pace LT Ohio State Rams
1998 Peyton Manning QB Tennessee Colts
1999 Tim Couch QB Kentucky Browns
2000 Courtney Brown DE Penn State Browns (injury bust)
2001 Michael Vick QB Virginia Tech Falcons
2002 David Carr QB Fresno State Texans
2003 Carson Palmer QB USC Bengals
2004 Eli Manning QB Ole Miss Chargers
2005 Alex Smith QB Utah 49ers
2006 Mario Williams DE North Carolina State Texans
2007 JaMarcus Russell QB LSU Raiders
2008 Jake Long LT Michigan Dolphins
2009 Matthew Stafford QB Georgia Lions
2010 Sam Bradford QB Oklahoma Rams
2011 Cam Newton QB Auburn Panthers
2012 Andrew Luck QB Stanford Colts
2013 Eric Fisher LT Central Michigan (I might have hair-triggered him)
Chiefs 2014 Jadeveon Clowney DE South Carolina Texans (not bust yet)
2015 Jameis Winston QB Florida State Buccaneers

Very possible the first overall this year will be LOT Tunsil to the Titans. If I was the Titans, and knowing a bit about Tunsil, I think I would try to trade down.

The Browns did not do well with their 1st round overall picks ('99 & 2000 above). In fact, Browns have not done very well picking QBs either. Here is a list of their QB draft picks from 1999-2014 (sorry, no Johnny Football). OFC, picking a QB that ends up becoming a HOFer is like winning the lottery. So some slack given. Just some.
- Brady Quinn, 2007-09, drafted by Browns 22nd overall in 2007, 3-9 as a Browns starter.
- Brandon Weeden, 2012-13, drafted by Browns 22nd overall in 2012, 5-15 as a Browns starter.
- Luke McCown, 2004, drafted by Browns in fourth round in 2004, 0-4 as Browns starter.
- Spergon Wynn, 2000, drafted by Browns in the sixth round in 2000, 0-1 as a Browns starter.
- Colt McCoy, 2010-12, drafted by Browns in third round in 2010, 6-15 as a Browns starter.
- Charlie Frye, 2005-07, drafted by Browns in the third round in 2005, 6-13 as Browns starter.
- Tim Couch, 1999-2003, drafted No. 1 overall by the Browns in 1999, 22-37 as Browns starter.

List of Browns QBs since 1999:

Season......Quarterback(s)
2015 Josh McCown (8) / Johnny Manziel (6) / Austin Davis (2)
2014 Brian Hoyer (13) / Johnny Manziel (2) / Connor Shaw (1)
2013 Jason Campbell (8) / Brandon Weeden (5) / Brian Hoyer (3)
2012 Brandon Weeden (15) / Thad Lewis (1)
2011 Colt McCoy (13) / Seneca Wallace (3)
2010 Colt McCoy (8) / Jake Delhomme (4) / Seneca Wallace (4)
2009 Brady Quinn (9) / Derek Anderson (7)
2008 Derek Anderson (9) / Brady Quinn (3) / Ken Dorsey (3) / Bruce Gradkowski (1)
2007 Derek Anderson (15) / Charlie Frye (1)
2006 Charlie Frye (13) / Derek Anderson (3)
2005 Trent Dilfer (11) / Charlie Frye (5)
2004 Jeff Garcia (10) / Kelly Holcomb (2) / Luke McCown (4)
2003 Kelly Holcomb (8) / Tim Couch (8)
2002 Tim Couch (14) / Kelly Holcomb (2)
2001 Tim Couch (16)
2000 Doug Pederson (8) / Tim Couch (7) / Spergon Wynn (1)
1999 Tim Couch (14) / Ty Detmer (2)

So, with the 2nd overall pick this year will the Browns take a QB (Wentz is the highest ranked QB in this draft class). Thing is, what I have been hearing about the QBs in this draft class is all about height and arm strength, but not much about what's between the ears (which guys like PManning, Brady, Wilson have in spades). Wentz seems closest to NFL caliber in the mental category.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

Elway to come out of retirement and QB the broncos himself.

He is prolly arrogant enough to think he could. It could be fun watching Osweiller's new teammate JJ Watt turn him into a pretzel.

 

[jmdirt]

Pretty safe to say that's not happening. Even if Denver is stinging right now for not having any QB. They will have to use a short-term fix at QB and hope to draft someone to groom. And this is a terrible draft class at QB. I can see Wentz going in the first round, but I would not pick any of the others in the first round.

Speaking of stinging, John "Jack wagon" Elway's parting shot at Osweiller sounds a lot like sour grapes:

"We've stayed true to our philosophy of building a team with players who want to be Denver Broncos and want to be here."

Gee, John. If that were true what the crap did you offer Osweiller a contract for?

Back to Houston and Osweiller, right you guys are the 4-year, $72M ($18M/year) is heavily overpaying for such a limited resume (7 career starts). As Mooch Mariuchi said today, "Desperate times call for desperate measures". That's a statement I do not agree with. Teams that practice that are typically not good teams.

The entire quote is less sour grapes and more smart spending:
"We've stayed true to our philosophy of building a team with players who want to be Denver Broncos and want to be here," Broncos executive vice president and general manager John Elway said Wednesday. "That's been a successful approach for us."

"While we did offer a very competitive and fair long-term contract to Brock, we ultimately had to remain disciplined while continuing to assemble a roster that can compete for championships," Elway said.

They offered him a contract at the price they were willing to pay. Others have stayed in Denver for less than they could make on the market because they wanted to be Broncos. That being said, Brock would have been insane to leave about $20 mil on the table just to be a Bronco ($37 mil guaranteed!).

There is a lot more to the game than stats and ratings, but it is interesting that Hoyer had a higher QBR than Osweiler.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

haha. I would normally agree with you if it were not for 1) Elway knew Denver needed him, because without him now look at the pickle they are in, and 2) Elway did not need to add "building a team with players who want to be Denver Broncos and want to be here". There was no need for that to be said. It was an obvious slam. Elway should have said "Thanks to Brock for filling in nicely when Peyton was injured and for helping get to the playoffs for a shot to win the Super Bowl"... or something like that.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

haha. I would normally agree with you if it were not for 1) Elway knew Denver needed him, because without him now look at the pickle they are in, and 2) Elway did not need to add "building a team with players who want to be Denver Broncos and want to be here". There was no need for that to be said. It was an obvious slam. Elway should have said "Thanks to Brock for filling in nicely when Peyton was injured and for helping get to the playoffs for a shot to win the Super Bowl"... or something like that.

Oh yes he DID need to say that!

Brock's agent/agency said something to the effect of Brock looking for loyalty and a strong defense. Well, good luck finding a tougher D than Denver, and how does he know that Houston will be loyal (look at what they did with Hoyer and Mallett, and then Hoyer). Verbal jabs.

LMAO: on the radio this AM: Denver might be talking to Hoyer!

I still think that Kaep and RGIII COULD be solid QBs in the correct system, Den being a good option.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Well, I can certainly see how ppl think Elway needed to say that, because you can make a case that Brock may have been acting a bit like a puss if his motive for leaving Denver was due to hurt feelings, or because of something like Cheap Trick's I Want You to Want Me:

I want you to want me
I need you to need me
I'd love you to love me
I'm begging you to beg me
I want you to want me
I need you to need me
I'd love you to love me

Hoyer, huh. Well, it will get interesting. I'm thinking maybe Fitzpatrick, and draft or bring in some young guy like RG or Kaep (if they'd be willing to sit and learn for a couple years). But how bad can it be anyway? Denver proved a team can win the SB with a crummy QB by having a strong defense. (Oh, where is Foxxy now to read this?)

 

[Billie]

image paying 70 million for a qb who hasn't even won 5 games yet

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Re:

image paying 70 million for a qb who hasn't even won 5 games yet

Look at Sam Bradford's rookie contract.

 

[Merckx index]

Brady just signed a new contract that will pay him--at most--$60 million for four years, $12 million less than Osweiller. Of course, who knows if Brady will even be playing for four more years, but the difference between Brady and Osweiller is that Brady is more interested in winning rings than getting a few extra million when he already has enough to be set for life (it also helps when your wife makes twice as much as any player in the NFL). Don't kid yourself, if Brady didn't have those four rings, no one would be saying he was better than Manning.

Houston has a strong defense and with a good QB might become a SB contender, but the Broncos already won a SB with one of the worst QBs in the NFL. Seems to me a lot to give up just for a few more million that Osweiller doesn't even need.

Still don’t understand how Kubiak is going to turn Kaep into a starter if Kelly can’t. Not saying Kelly can’t, but Kaep’s desire to be traded seems to be based on a strong belief he won’t start at SF.

 

[leftover pie]

Talk of Kaep to the broncos - I don't know how John Elway could really pull the trigger on that, Kaep seems like the sort of QB that would really frustrate him.

 

[movingtarget]

Plenty of talk about Kaep going to the Broncos or the Browns. The Jets have lost interest it seems. Some talk about about RG3 and the 49ers.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Brady just signed a new contract that will pay him--at most--$60 million for four years, $12 million less than Osweiller. Of course, who knows if Brady will even be playing for four more years, but the difference between Brady and Osweiller is that Brady is more interested in winning rings than getting a few extra million when he already has enough to be set for life (it also helps when your wife makes twice as much as any player in the NFL). Don't kid yourself, if Brady didn't have those four rings, no one would be saying he was better than Manning.

Houston has a strong defense and with a good QB might become a SB contender, but the Broncos already won a SB with one of the worst QBs in the NFL. Seems to me a lot to give up just for a few more million that Osweiller doesn't even need.

Still don’t understand how Kubiak is going to turn Kaep into a starter if Kelly can’t. Not saying Kelly can’t, but Kaep’s desire to be traded seems to be based on a strong belief he won’t start at SF.

49ers management seemed to have lost faith in Kaep in 2015 and I think he resented it. Not sure how much Tomsula had to do with it but he's gone anyway. But with the form Kaep was in he had to be benched. I think Denver is the most likely destination as they have just lost their top two QBs unless they opt for RG3 instead. Elways has been saying good things about Kaep who recently spent time in Denver doing his rehab after various surgeries. I heard that the 49ers are looking for a second round draft pick as part of a possible trade.

 

[jmdirt]

RUMOR (not confirmed yet): Kaep WANTS to play foe the Browns.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

RUMOR (not confirmed yet): Kaep WANTS to play foe the Browns.

ho in his right mind would want to play for the Browns ? Is it's true, that means Chip doesn't believe in him, although his system needs a mobile QB. RG3? Manziel ? Not looking good for SF...
Now as a Chiefs fan, I'm happy with Manning retiring: we put up with Elway for many years, then Payton (both in Indy and lately with Denver). Many broken dreams, i.e. '97 and '03. The donkeys can get Hoyer for all I care. That's good for us. Just hope the Raiders don't get too good too soon and with a healthy Jamaal, we have our window.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re: Re:

image paying 70 million for a qb who hasn't even won 5 games yet

Look at Sam Bradford's rookie contract.

...and only seven starts.

It is so hard to draft a HOF caliber QB. The odds are almost like the odds of winning the lottery. OFC that's a bit of exaggeration. The odds are better than that I'm sure, but how many years does it take to achieve that? Just look at how many attempts the Browns have made to draft one (I posted about that a page or two ago). The fact the odds are not great and also that this is a shallow, poor QB draft class has teams scrambling to shore up the starting QB position. And that will also affect the backup QB situation for some teams. REALLY makes it tough when a team like Denver loses TWO QBs in the same off season.

With all that cap space, look out for the Raiders next year. They are really stocking up, as they should be, but are doing wisely for the most part in the process. They might be overspending a tad, but hey, they got the cap room. Add to that next year SD won't be much, KC is not really making headway, and Denver (as with any SB winning team) is finding it hard to keep players. So who knows, maybe next year the Raiders win the AFC West. Here's to hoping.

Raiders overspending pales in comparison to the others out there. Brock we have been kicking around here and everyone knows about that. How about Giants signing defensive end Olivier Vernon from the Fins for 5 years and $85M ($52.5M guaranteed). Wow. He's a great player, he is age 25 so that length of contract is perfect for his age being that he can maintain current level of play that long, barring injury. But better than JJ Watt? And at $17M/year, better than many QBs, including Brady? OVERPAID!

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Here is the list of 2016 NFL draft compensatory picks sorted by team. These are based on player movement in the 2015 off-season. You can go to the following NFL site to see who each team lost and gained that determined the compensatories:
https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/NFL-ANNOUNCES-33-COMPENSATORY-DRAFT-CHOICES-TO-13-CLUBS.aspx

..........Overall
Rnd...Selection...Team
5........33-170......Arizona
4........34-132......Baltimore
4........36-134......Baltimore
6........34-209......Baltimore
4........41-139......Buffalo
6........43-218......Buffalo
4........40-138......Cleveland
5........35-172......Cleveland
5........36-173......Cleveland
4........37-135......Dallas
6........37-212......Dallas
6........41-216......Dallas
6........42-217......Dallas
3........36-98........Denver
4........38-136......Denver
6........44-219......Denver
3........33-95........Detroit
6........35-210......Detroit
4........33-131......Green Bay
4........39-137......Green Bay
3........34-96........New England
6........33-208......New England
6........39-214......New England
6........46-221......New England
6........45-220......Pittsburgh
5........38-175......San Diego
4........35-133......San Francisco
5........37-174......San Francisco
6........36-211......San Francisco
6........38-213......San Francisco
3........35-97........Seattle
5........34-171......Seattle
6........40-215......Seattle

 

[movingtarget]

Denver have picked up Sanchez as a second string QB but are still interested in RG3 and Kaep. 49ers want a second round pick for Kaep but the Browns are only offering a third round draft pick and want changes to his contract. Manziel waived by the Browns on Friday.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

Denver have picked up Sanchez as a second string QB but are still interested in RG3 and Kaep. 49ers want a second round pick for if the aep but the Brintending to dealwns are only offering a third round draft pick and want changes to his contract. Manziel waived by the Browns on Friday.

I believe Kaep was a 2nd round pick by Niners. Not 100% sure on that. But no way Miners are getting 2nd rounder for Kaep IMO. They'd be lucky to get a 3rd rounder, but he's not worth more than a 4th. Here's a thought - what if Denver picked up Sanchez intending to deal him in trade for Kaep? And if Niners wont go for that Denver would still have Sanchez. That deal Denver did to get Sanchez gives them more options. Clever by Denver.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Denver have picked up Sanchez as a second string QB but are still interested in RG3 and Kaep. 49ers want a second round pick for if the aep but the Brintending to dealwns are only offering a third round draft pick and want changes to his contract. Manziel waived by the Browns on Friday.

I believe Kaep was a 2nd round pick by Niners. Not 100% sure on that. But no way Miners are getting 2nd rounder for Kaep IMO. They'd be lucky to get a 3rd rounder, but he's not worth more than a 4th. Here's a thought - what if Denver picked up Sanchez intending to deal him in trade for Kaep? And if Niners wont go for that Denver would still have Sanchez. That deal Denver did to get Sanchez gives them more options. Clever by Denver.

Yes it sounds like Denver have something up their sleeve. I still think it's possible that Kaep will go to the Browns but only for a third round pick and other concessions although the GM Baalke has had a habit of trading down instead of up and this has infuriated many 49ers fans in recent years. In other words getting less for what he has given.

 

[jmdirt]

I heard about Den trading for Sanchez while I was driving home from work. The people in cars around me probably thought that I was having a stroke based on the squished up, WTF look on my face. After thinking about it for a few minutes, I started thinking that Sanchez was pretty solid in his first few seasons as he learned the game. He was a young QB on the rise, then got hurt, and never quite got his head back. Under Dennis, with help from Manning, can he become a top 15 (even 10) QB? After thinking about it, I like his potential over Kaep and RGIII, and think that he is on par with Osweiler.

 

[jmdirt]

IMO this is interesting: http://www.gq.com/story/last-chance-university

I know its about college, juco even, but it is directly related to who is heading to the NFL.

It sounds like Chad Kelly is a great player, but a five start ars hat. Is he the QB that is missing from the 2016 draft? Is he going to be the number one pick in the 2017 draft? Will he be like his uncle or like Johnny Unemployed?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Kelly
http://www.olemisssports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/chad_kelly_946513.html

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

That rang a bell inside my head but I couldn't place it. Sometime, maybe a couple years ago, I saw some news clip or something on that school/camp. And boy the town sure is a dump. God bless the US of A:

As to Sanchez, anyone who thinks he is anything more than a back-up at this point has to be nuts. Since the butt-fumble, actually, before that even, he's had maybe 2 good games, and a lot more with many mistakes. Even if you go to early in his career his Jets teams won with great defense. I can't recall a single game where they relied on him, and he delivered. It may be a move that Denver has thinking they can deal him in a two-for trade, we'll see. Denver's roster has been raided though, so it's going to be more than a QB they need.

Another problem is that I don't see RG3 or Kaepernick as a starting QB this coming year unless they have undergone major changes, and land on just the right team. Even a Denver team with a lot of solid players still in tact on defense, and a few free agent surprises yet to come and a great draft won't quell my concern much. But I have to say, if Denver had RG3 or Kaep and Sanchez, I'd have to lean towards starting RG3. Denver is offering no more than a 4th round pick for Kaep.

With cash to spend, the Raiders have now picked up Kelechi Osemele, the best offensive lineman available in FA, and corner Sean Smith, maybe the best at his position as well.

The other team opening up a fat wallet is Jacksonville, who might actually be pretty good this year, and even better the next.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Re:

As to Sanchez, anyone who thinks he is anything more than a back-up at this point has to be nuts. Since the butt-fumble, actually, before that even, he's had maybe 2 good games, and a lot more with many mistakes. Even if you go to early in his career his Jets teams won with great defense. I can't recall a single game where they relied on him, and he delivered. It may be a move that Denver has thinking they can deal him in a two-for trade, we'll see. Denver's roster has been raided though, so it's going to be more than a QB they need.

I'm not so sure Sanchez can't be more than a backup. I have a hunch he can. As you said, it's true early in his career Jets won with good defense. Well, guess what. He's going to a team with not just a good defense, but a great defense. In addition, Denver has a good running game and he will have some good targets, so his decisions should be easier. I do recall him making some good throws in his early career when the Jets did not have to rely on him to carry the team. If Denver does not deal Sanchez away, then we will see, but it is going to be one of those things where he's got to show he can do it before people en masse start believing in him.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

That rang a bell inside my head but I couldn't place it. Sometime, maybe a couple years ago, I saw some news clip or something on that school/camp. And boy the town sure is a dump. God bless the US of A:

As to Sanchez, anyone who thinks he is anything more than a back-up at this point has to be nuts. Since the butt-fumble, actually, before that even, he's had maybe 2 good games, and a lot more with many mistakes. Even if you go to early in his career his Jets teams won with great defense. I can't recall a single game where they relied on him, and he delivered. It may be a move that Denver has thinking they can deal him in a two-for trade, we'll see. Denver's roster has been raided though, so it's going to be more than a QB they need.

Another problem is that I don't see RG3 or Kaepernick as a starting QB this coming year unless they have undergone major changes, and land on just the right team. Even a Denver team with a lot of solid players still in tact on defense, and a few free agent surprises yet to come and a great draft won't quell my concern much. But I have to say, if Denver had RG3 or Kaep and Sanchez, I'd have to lean towards starting RG3. Denver is offering no more than a 4th round pick for Kaep.

With cash to spend, the Raiders have now picked up Kelechi Osemele, the best offensive lineman available in FA, and corner Sean Smith, maybe the best at his position as well.

The other team opening up a fat wallet is Jacksonville, who might actually be pretty good this year, and even better the next.

I'm going to refer back to this post in Dec. to see who the crazy one is (I already know I'm Fn certifiable but...). One of us will be eating crow...I've actually gotten used to the taste!