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All true, but the guys I listed aren't even being considered for coordinator, position or assistant coaching positions. They are completely out of football.

I think most coaches would not want Belicheck hired as consultant, as there would be this constant fear of, "well, there's Belicheck in the wings if things go south..." So this is quite different than the Raiders hiring Marvin Lewis as a non-specific assistant coach, or Tom Coughlin as an adviser. No one thinks those guys are going to take over any job other than what they were hired for.
Agree. Like I said, it would have to be the 'perfect' situation just because of human nature.
 
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It wouldn't feel too sorry for these guys. They're all multi-millionaires complete with the mansions, vacation homes...
Where on earth did you possibly get the idea I was feeling sorry for them, or implying people should?

I'm just surprised they are all unemployed considering their past success, that's it.
If it was as simple as shoring up the defense, special teams & providing more offensive weapons, etc, then that's what Payton would have exactly done giving Wilson a better team to work with next year (this Bronco O wasn't exactly loaded with weapons).
Except they're currently set to be about $32m over the cap already for next year, with $11m of it dead money. So that leaves little wiggle room to sign top players if they decided to keep Wilson. Nope, make no mistake, Wilson was supposed to transform this team with his HOF level of play, and the asinine amount of cash they doled out for him, and what they gave Seattle to do so. He was the last piece of the puzzle to a team already set-up to win, at least according to Denver, George Paton, John Elway, and others.

That dead money gets worse next year, because of the way Wilson's contract is structured. Whomever signs him will pay him just $2.1m, because Denver will be on the hook for another $37m, for Russ and Ciara to live in even more luxury. Laughing all the way to the bank indeed. What suckers the Broncos were. Many fans too, unfortunately.
 
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Who says it isn't about the QB primarily determining a team's success? In 30 games started only 11-19 and benched in week #16 of this past season for some guy named "Stidham." Only one season played under Payton where he obviously didn't have the patience to rebuilt with Wilson.

If it was as simple as shoring up the defense, special teams & providing more offensive weapons, etc, then that's what Payton would have exactly done giving Wilson a better team to work with next year (this Bronco O wasn't exactly loaded with weapons).

Bottom line though - Wilson laughs all the way to the bank increasing his financial empire as the Broncos organization looks like a bunch of idiots. Lol.
You’re forgetting Payton hated Wilson from the moment he got to Denver, and Wilson had a better year compared to last.
 
Where on earth did you possibly get the idea I was feeling sorry for them, or implying people should?

I'm just surprised they are all unemployed considering their past success, that's it.
I don't think Patricia nor McDaniels had any success. As I said before, I was shocked that the Raiders even hired McDaniels considering how terrible he was at Denver in his first stint as a HC. But I think your Raiders were in panic mode at the time --- you've heard the saying: "Desperate times requires desperate measures."

On Vrabel things started going south in 2022 when Tannehill was getting old & starting to decay (that's why he drafted the next "Brett Favre." Lol). Then last year Levis isn't showing any signs in preseason camp of living up to next "Brett Favre" tag & is relegated to 3rd string with no hope of starting on day 1. Tannehill gets hurt later in the season (imagine that) & Vrabel throws a Hail Mary by starting Levis only for him to choke & fail to to get Varbel off the hotseat.

With Belichick - he's whole success as a HC & path to the HOF is because of one particular individual - Thomas Patrick Brady (nothing new there). He gambled wrong on a replacement for Brady by drafting Jones - who was a complete failure & couldn't save the great Belichick from his ultimate demise. And you new things in NE were really bad when Belichick benched Jones in favor of some stiff named "Bailey Zappe" (desperate times requires desperate measures. Lol).

O'Brien got lucky and is coaching at the college level. I don't know what his ties are with BC when he was offered the job after Hafley left to take the DC job with the Packers.
 
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I don't think Patricia nor McDaniels had any success. As I said before, I was shocked that the Raiders even hired McDaniels considering how terrible he was at Denver in his first stint as a HC. But I think your Raiders were in panic mode at the time --- you've heard the saying: "Desperate times requires desperate measures."

On Vrabel things started going south in 2022 when Tannehill was getting old & starting to decay (that's why he drafted the next "Brett Favre." Lol). Then last year Levis isn't showing any signs in preseason camp of living up to next "Brett Favre" tag & is relegated to 3rd string with no hope of starting on day 1. Tannehill gets hurt later in the season (imagine that) & Vrabel throws a Hail Mary by starting Levis only for him to choke & fail to to get Varbel off the hotseat.

With Belichick - he's whole success as a HC & path to the HOF is because of one particular individual - Thomas Patrick Brady (nothing new there). He gambled wrong on a replacement for Brady by drafting Jones - who was a complete failure & couldn't save the great Belichick from his ultimate demise. And you new things in NE were really bad when Belichick benched Jones in favor of some stiff named "Bailey Zappe" (desperate times requires desperate measures. Lol).

O'Brien got lucky and is coaching at the college level. I don't know what his ties are with BC when he was offered the job after Hafley left to take the DC job with the Packers.

In Bill’s defense, he led the Browns to the playoffs and a playoff win, before they moved to Baltimore in 1995. That coaching staff was stacked, among them was Saban. Who knows what Cleveland could have done had they stayed there and Belichick had time to develop that team. Remember that in 2000 the Ravens won the SB.
 
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In Bill’s defense, he led the Browns to the playoffs and a playoff win, before they moved to Baltimore in 1995. That coaching staff was stacked, among them was Saban. Who knows what Cleveland could have done had they stayed there and Belichick had time to develop that team. Remember that in 2000 the Ravens won the SB.
I don't quite follow you on this. I went back & looked at his Cleveland days as HC. In his first 3 years he goes 6-10, 7-9, 7-9 - then the breakout season in 94 going 11-5 with the one win in the playoffs. However, the following year and his last season there, he regresses badly to 5-11. In 94, he had a healthy Testaverde that started most of the year & played pretty well. In 95, Testaverde wasn't performing so well & Bilichick started benching him.

All & all in 5 seasons with Cleveland he was 36-44 (.450) - not much difference in winning percentage that he had in the 4 years at NE post-Brady.
 
I don't think Patricia nor McDaniels had any success.
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I was stating they managed to get multiple rings as coordinators, and before that position coaches. So they did have success in those jobs. Now, no one in their right mind would now hire either to be a HC, but they can't even get coordinator, or even position coaching jobs. It's like they are all persona non grata.
As I said before, I was shocked that the Raiders even hired McDaniels considering how terrible he was at Denver in his first stint as a HC. But I think your Raiders were in panic mode at the time
Not really. Rich Bisaccia took over from Jon Gruden's mess and took the team to the playoffs. Granted, they lost, but they played surprisingly well going 10-6, and the players loved him. Mike Mayock was the Raiders GM at the time and in his exit interview he told Mark Davis, "okay fire me, but don't fire Rich. Give him at least some sort of contract." Mark Davis in his infinite wisdom fired both, then hired Dave Ziegler and McDaniels as a "twofer" from the Patriots. There were a LOT of Raiders fans who were upset that Bisaccia was fired, as were many players. But Davis saw McDaniels as a shiny object and doled out a heap of cash for them. You saw the results McDaniels brought to the Raiders. Basically identical to what he did for Denver, only he wasn't as hot headed. A writer for Sports Illustrated named Hondo Carpenter wrote a detailed article about decisions the made, and Ziegler was some good, some bad. But McDaniels deserved almost all the blame.

One thing to remember was there were other teams interested in McDaniels being a HC again. Part of that was he was able to make Mac Jones look decent (I actually doubt this, I just think defenses hadn't adjusted to him). But even when he was hired by the Raiders there were a lot of people who suspected it would be a mistake, and it was.

So far Davis has made good decisions since canning McDaniels. Let's see if he regresses, can't stand it, and continues to stick his fingers in the pie this off-season into next. If the Raiders do something stupid like sign Justin Fields, Kirk Cousins Ryan Tannehill, to a big contract, or extend Josh Jacobs or Hunter Renfrow.
Belicheck... gambled wrong on a replacement for Brady by drafting Jones - who was a complete failure & couldn't save the great Belichick from his ultimate demise. And you new things in NE were really bad when Belichick benched Jones in favor of some stiff named "Bailey Zappe" (desperate times requires desperate measures. Lol).
Don't forget, in the pre-season the Patriots cut Zappe, that's how little faith they had in him. And yet, he ended up starting the last few games in the season.

Rex Ryan has been one of the harshest critics of Mac Jones. Saying he has the weakest arm in the NFL, can't process plays, never improved from college, etc. On every show he's on about the Patriots he brings this up, and others talk about how Jones did okay as a rookie with McDaniels as OC (again, I say BS) just needs the right system, etc., but time and again Ryan has been proven to be correct.

Jones is about to head to the no-man's land. Where Mitch Trubisky, Carson Wentz, Cam Newton are. Still wanting to play in the NFL, not that anyone is interested.
 
One more hit for Jimmy G and he probably also tumbles into the QB no mans land. Some would argue he's already there if he isn't picked up before the new season starts, after the Raiders release him. What he did at the Raiders wouldn't have impressed anyone and his market price is set to tumble anyway unless there is another spate of QB injuries next season.
 
Jimmy had one good game last year, week 1 with a clutch late game performance against the Broncos. He had another decent game against Green Bay. He looked slow, and threw a surprising amount of picks. I posted a few weeks before he was benched that it looked to me like his body was about done playing football. At best he could find himself in a Joe Flacco situation where he only has to play a few games late in a season. Flacco's body has been pretty trashed too, but he held up.

If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, Jimmy G's positive was because I had a prescription (Vasodilator? Just a blind guess, I'm not a doctor ;). ) banned by the NFL. Apparently this has happened with other players, hence the fairly low suspension, so who knows? But here's the thing, because of this + test, I believe it voids $11m of JG's contract that the Raiders would have owed him going into the 2024 season. Oooops.
 
Jimmy G’s biggest hustle/grace was starting that game and half for Brady in 2016 with the reports of Belichick wanting him over Brady. Otherwise he was a solid game manager with a good to elite team, like an upgraded Alex Smith. He just gets injured too much and easily. Biggest regret for him has to be the missed Sanders throw, he had his Steve Young moment to go from backup winning Super Bowls to actually winning his own and missed it while imploding with the rest of the team.
 
If I'm reading the tea leaves correctly, Jimmy G's positive was because I had a prescription (Vasodilator? Just a blind guess, I'm not a doctor ;). )
The official report is that he failed to obtain a "therapeutic-use exemption" (TUE) for whatever prescription med he was using. There's two PDFs available for public review on the NFL's drug policies - one for substance-abuse infractions & the other for performancing-enhancing drug violations (good documents to read if you're curious about what is banned, what tests are utilized, selection & frequency of testing, OOC testing, missed tests, penalties, appeal process, etc).

It looks like vasodilators (e.g. viagra) are not banned under the current policy. Interestingly, under the TUE section, it mentions TUE's can be granted for things like testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) & stimulant use (e.g. adderall). However, the use of these medications must be accompanied by a bona-fide medical condition certified by a doctor (e.g., hypogonadalism, ADHD, etc).

So, who knows what his prescription med was for but he should've known better (or his doctor should have informed him) to get a simple TUE & not face an embarrassing suspension like this.

 
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Jimmy G’s biggest hustle/grace was starting that game and half for Brady in 2016 with the reports of Belichick wanting him over Brady. Otherwise he was a solid game manager with a good to elite team, like an upgraded Alex Smith...
Agree with all you wrote, except I don't think Jimmy was better than Alex Smith. Not only was Alex more healthy, he also simply performed better for longer. Also, Alex was one botched punt return from getting SF to a Super Bowl (where they would have lost to the Patriots), not too different than Jimmy losing to the Chiefs. But you otherwise nailed it, his whole career.
It looks like vasodilators (e.g. viagra) are not banned under the current policy.
I was of course joking, you know?!
Interestingly, under the TUE section, it mentions TUE's can be granted for things like testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) & stimulant use (e.g. adderall). However, the use of these medications must be accompanied by a bona-fide medical condition certified by a doctor (e.g., hypogonadalism, ADHD, etc).
I don't follow this stuff close at all, too depressing, but I believe several sports are like this. Boxing for example. It goes without saying the NFL isn't as strict as Olympic (or cycling) testing, but things are far better than they were 20+ years ago, the days of Tony Mandrich, Bill Romanowski, Shawn Merriman, and of course, Lyle Alzado when it was the wild west.
 
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I don't follow this stuff close at all, too depressing, but I believe several sports are like this. Boxing for example. It goes without saying the NFL isn't as strict as Olympic (or cycling) testing, but things are far better than they were 20+ years ago, the days of Tony Mandrich, Bill Romanowski, Shawn Merriman, and of course, Lyle Alzado when it was the wild west.
I research the PED use stuff in the NFL fairly regularly but more so with cycling, and endurance sports in general (it's a hobby of mine & I've posted a lot on the clinic threads).

Definitely the NFL is  not nearly as strict as cycling, T&F, etc. For one, the NFL doesn't use the Athlete Biological Passport (ABP). The ABP now has an anabolic steroid & growth hormone module used for target testing & punitive actions for anomalies cases. Secondly, the NFL states in their policy they use the Carbon Isotope Test (CIR) in only up to "15%" of their tested samples (the CIR test is the only method than can distinguish between synthetic plant-derived testosterone from naturally occurring cholesterol-derived testosterone in the body). With 320 tests per week during the regular season (10 random players per team) that leaves 272 samples per week not tested with the CIR assay. Also, there's no mandatory off-season testing, though the NFL can test a player off-season for reasonable suspicion - or if the player has had a previous PED suspension.

IMO, there's probably a fair amount of PED use going on (there's just too many "bodybuilding" looking physiques & "superhuman" strength guys. Lol). Also, the penalties are a total joke - only 6 games for a PED positive involving an anabolic-androgenic substance/growth hormone peptide & only 2 games for a banned stimulant or masking agent! And a 2nd offense for AAS or GH is only 17 games, and only 5 games for the stimulant or masking agent! (in cycling a first pop for AAS, GH or a masking agent is 4 years & a 2nd one is a lifetime ban!). Clearly, with ridiculous penalties like this, the NFL's intent is to protect their marquee players in case one of them were to test positive (don't want to lose the big marketing money. Lol).

All in all, I don't think most fans these days really care much about nor get depressed about PED use in the NFL. As long as their team is winning & their favorite players aren't getting popped, it's all rainbows & marshmallows for them. Lol.
 
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I always completely understood PED use and I can see why Jimmy G would take the risk.. Now that he played Russian roulette and got popped will it hurt signing chances? It does not seem that PED is on the same level as domestic violence and other off field criminal behavior. Gotta think if Mr. G is squirting stuff in his veins that he was either told the end is near.. In bike racing I knew people that trained for 2 years for an event, get bronchitis or knee injury shortly before they are supposed to race and turn to the juice. And that is with a thimble full of money involved, NFL players could probably accurately describe some things they do as life or death, do or die . Garoppolo should have plenty in the bank had a good career.. Will he go out or hang around as a famous backup QB?
Ocho Cinco doing lots of shows and podcasts and none of them skip the subject of him saving most of his money, get a special laugh about him wearing fake jewelry to save money!!
 
I think if he's willing to accept a backup role there are many teams that would jump at the opportunity to have him as their primary backup. He could provide stability to any QB corps & mentor to a rookie or young franchise QB that needs some development.

For example, Andy Dalton seems to be content with his new career as a journeyman backup. He doesn't complain & relishes the role of mentoring to these young guys (though he didn't do a very good job with Bryce Young last year. Lol).
 
I think it's an off-repeated fallacy that a veteran QB takes a rookie under his wings and mentors him. Batman and Robin. Stick with me kid, I'll show you the ropes. Right out of Hollywood. Granted, some vet QBs are nicer than others, some set good examples, give tips. But several don't help much at all. Some see the rookie as someone looking to take their job. Take away their livelihood.

Besides, it's not their job. It's the job of the QB coach, OC, HC, and any private coach they have to prep them for the NFL. Mostly the QB coach.

It really blows my mind when I hear this in baseball. The age old story of the vet pitcher teaching his pitches to a rookie. As if the pitching coach has no idea what pitches the vet is throwing (even though he's actually coaching him too).
 
I think it's an off-repeated fallacy that a veteran QB takes a rookie under his wings and mentors him. Batman and Robin. Stick with me kid, I'll show you the ropes. Right out of Hollywood. Granted, some vet QBs are nicer than others, some set good examples, give tips. But several don't help much at all. Some see the rookie as someone looking to take their job. Take away their livelihood.

Besides, it's not their job. It's the job of the QB coach, OC, HC, and any private coach they have to prep them for the NFL. Mostly the QB coach.

It really blows my mind when I hear this in baseball. The age old story of the vet pitcher teaching his pitches to a rookie. As if the pitching coach has no idea what pitches the vet is throwing (even though he's actually coaching him too).
I agree. Watching how a successful vet prepares for each season, each week, each game is the value. while it is a tough ask for a vet to actively mentor his replacement, having a solid back up could be of value to the vet as well: ie: vet suffers an injury in game 12 and the rookie can step in and keep playoff hopes alive so that the vet can return for the playoffs.

Its important to remember that the vet is trying to be QB1 and get to the SB which doesn't leave a lot of time for mentoring. Like you said, the coaches should be doing most of the work.

Other than Alex Smith, I can't think of another vet who truly mentored his replacement.
 
I think it's an off-repeated fallacy that a veteran QB takes a rookie under his wings and mentors him. Batman and Robin. Stick with me kid, I'll show you the ropes. Right out of Hollywood. Granted, some vet QBs are nicer than others, some set good examples, give tips. But several don't help much at all. Some see the rookie as someone looking to take their job. Take away their livelihood.

Besides, it's not their job. It's the job of the QB coach, OC, HC, and any private coach they have to prep them for the NFL. Mostly the QB coach.
I'm talking about older, veteran journeyman who are at the tail end of their careers and have  no desire (nor the ability) to compete for a starting job anymore.

For example, guys like Dalton, Keenum, Taylor, etc. These are guys in their mid-30s that have been with several teams that are given 1-2 yr contracts at most with the sole purpose to be the backup - and not compete for a starting job. Don't be mislead - these guys know their place in the league & they're not going to be pouting about not starting or that some rookie is going to take "away their livelihood." C'mon man...these guys are lucky to still be in the league making damn good $$$ as a backup. In fact, look who mentored Stroud & is credited with his development:

Since the overwhelming number of backups are not seasoned journeyman veterans but comprised of younger, lower-drafted pick guys (e.g., Minshew, Rudolph, Zappe, Thompson, DeVito, etc) - they probably want nothing to do with helping in the development of the hot shot franchise guy as they just assume they struggle so they can get their shot at starting. Lol.

And getting back to Jimmy G: If he doesn't want to accept a backup role & mentorship, perhaps he should just quit & go into fashion modeling men's underwear or something. Lol.
 
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I'm talking about older, veteran journeyman who are at the tail end of their careers and have  no desire (nor the ability) to compete for a starting job anymore.

For example, guys like Dalton, Keenum, Taylor, etc. ...
It does happen. Just not the way so many fans, even sports announcers so casually make it sound like it's the norm, when it's not.

Keenum is a very good example. He's been around the league a long time, and there is zero chance he'll be competing for the starting job, none. He is a back-up QB, only a back-up, and one who sets an example to CJ, another sounding board for him.

As to the Raiders, I think a much better example is Brian Hoyer. In fact, it was questioned when the Raiders signed him if they were hiring him to be a QB coach (literally), not a player. Hoyer, like Alex Smith, also seems like a fairly easy going, even disposition. I even quipped after the Raiders drafted Aiden O'Connell that Hoyer was now a coach in pads, unlikely to ever play again (he did, a bit, didn't do so well).
And getting back to Jimmy G: If he doesn't want to accept a backup role & mentorship, perhaps he should just quit & go into fashion modeling men's underwear or something. Lol.
o_O
 

the franchise tag amount for running backs should be at least the same as the one for tight ends but it's lower and only roughly double the amount for kickers................
 
I'm talking about older, veteran journeyman who are at the tail end of their careers and have  no desire (nor the ability) to compete for a starting job anymore.

For example, guys like Dalton, Keenum, Taylor, etc. These are guys in their mid-30s that have been with several teams that are given 1-2 yr contracts at most with the sole purpose to be the backup - and not compete for a starting job. Don't be mislead - these guys know their place in the league & they're not going to be pouting about not starting or that some rookie is going to take "away their livelihood." C'mon man...these guys are lucky to still be in the league making damn good $$$ as a backup. In fact, look who mentored Stroud & is credited with his development:

Since the overwhelming number of backups are not seasoned journeyman veterans but comprised of younger, lower-drafted pick guys (e.g., Minshew, Rudolph, Zappe, Thompson, DeVito, etc) - they probably want nothing to do with helping in the development of the hot shot franchise guy as they just assume they struggle so they can get their shot at starting. Lol.

And getting back to Jimmy G: If he doesn't want to accept a backup role & mentorship, perhaps he should just quit & go into fashion modeling men's underwear or something. Lol.
Some of Jimmy's commercials have been more effective than his QB play, that much is true. if Stephen A Smith can make it onto a soap opera I'm sure Jimmy could get a regular job on TV and the stuntman would be taking all the hits..............he had a good rep at the 49ers for helping the younger QBs but he will never be an after dinner speaker based on his post game pressers. He usually looked and sounded like he was ready to bolt for the door when answering questions !
 

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