Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

[Extinction]

I actually get that VO2 max doesn't change with doping. The problem is, however, we don't know his actual VO2 max, as it's never been reported. As such, it could go either way, alien VO2 max or doping. In this context my post "makes sense," having been accused of nonsense. In times of perennial doubt, why not be transparent? What would change reporting that Pogacar officially has a say 99 percent VO2 max? It wouldn't embolden his rivals, but intimidate them, more than they already are. By contrast, not reporting leaves speculation and all the bad thoughts it entails. At times, however, with bad thoughts one guesses correctly.

In any case, Bruyneel on Lemond is rich. He reports as evidence a supposed result of 74.5 in 1988. Lemond was out of himself, depressed, physically and mentally broken, and somehow this negates a 92.5 measure under completely other circumstances? Bruyneel and Armstrong are still bitter and vindictive. They should take a long, hard look in the mirror. Would Lemond have won three Tours, one more than Jonas, one less than Pogacar, with that score? Pathetic.

 

[BubbaChuck]

numbers are not that interesting.you can simply say he is the best or he is on superjuice.choose.but his muscles need real explanation,lmaoo.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I actually get that VO2 max doesn't change with doping. The problem is, however, we don't know his actual VO2 max, as it's never been reported. As such, it could go either way, alien VO2 max or doping. In this context my post "makes sense," having been accused of nonsense.

Actually this is what blood doping methods do: they directly increase VO2max! They affect oxygen transport part of the aerobic system, which is very important in VO2max formula. There's no he has high VO2max so he's clean. It could be actually the other way around.

Pogacar surely has big VO2max (otherwise it would be physically impossible to sustain 6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes, which is purely aerobic effort) but it doesn't mean he's clean or whatever. Obviously artificially boosted VO2max alone is not sufficient: one has to train a lot (preferably when using the boost) so that other crucial zones like Z4 (decisive long climbs) or Z2 (long races) nicely "follow" the max. capacity boost.

 

[Red Rick]

Actually this is what blood doping methods do: they directly increase VO2max! They affect oxygen transport part of the aerobic system, which is very important in VO2max formula. There's no he has high VO2max so he's clean. It could be actually the other way around.

Pogacar surely has big VO2max (otherwise it would be physically impossible to sustain 6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes, which is purely aerobic effort) but it doesn't mean he's clean or whatever. Obviously artificially boosted VO2max alone is not sufficient: one has to train a lot (preferably when using the boost) so that other crucial zones like Z4 (decisive long climbs) or Z2 (long races) nicely "follow" the max. capacity boost.

It's simultaneously shocking and it perfectly makes sense that we have to explain that oxygen vector doping would boost VO2 max.

 

[Extinction]

Actually this is what blood doping methods do: they directly increase VO2max! They affect oxygen transport part of the aerobic system, which is very important in VO2max formula. There's no he has high VO2max so he's clean. It could be actually the other way around.

Pogacar surely has big VO2max (otherwise it would be physically impossible to sustain 6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes, which is purely aerobic effort) but it doesn't mean he's clean or whatever. Obviously artificially boosted VO2max alone is not sufficient: one has to train a lot (preferably when using the boost) so that other crucial zones like Z4 (decisive long climbs) or Z2 (long races) nicely "follow" the max. capacity boost.

So you are saying doping increases VO2 max, but Pog sustaining 6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes can be explained by a naturally stratospheric VO2 alone, sans dopage? This is the point. What his actual VO2 max matters, so why keep it a secret or guessing game?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So you are saying doping increases VO2 max, but Pog sustaining 6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes can be explained by a naturally stratospheric VO2 alone, sans dopage? This is the point. What his actual VO2 max matters, so why keep it a secret or guessing game?

I never said that Pogacar's VO2max was naturally in high 90s range. It's what it's now and his measurement now won't give you an exact info regarding his natural VO2max in the past. I think I already explained a possible cause of 6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes: Boosted VO2max and a lot of training to boost his lower zones as well.

 

[Extinction]

I never said that Pogacar's VO2max was naturally in high 90s range. It's what it's now and his measurement now won't give you an exact info regarding his natural VO2max in the past. I think I already explained a possible cause of 6.9 w/kg for 40 minutes: Boosted VO2max and a lot of training to boost his lower zones as well.

Well, how? I know, you too wonder.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Well, how? I know, you too wonder.

Who knows, some suggest regular CO doses or maybe sth oldschool or sth totally unknown. Assuming its still just blood stuff (maybe not?) the interesting part is that they fool bio passport so easily. It seems the passport worked until...it didnt anymore.

 

[Cookster15]

How? Was Dr Inigo San Millan’s contribution to Pogi discussed upthread?

I’ve kept asking here who the medical science mastermind behind Pogacar is because it can’t be Gianetti who seems more an ex doper turned businessman than a medical science guru. Beating the bio passport isn’t that simple.

I maintain views towards Pogacar are coloured by which rival riders people follow. But watching this video about mitochondria and zone 2 training, I can’t help but be reminded of Dr Ferrari. Ferrari was more than just a doping expert.

View: https://youtu.be/7kfykswH6Io?si=0kANWhX6Tu2sDEI1

 

[vappaxbipmv]

I actually read the paper on his VO2 max, it was full of (incorrect) assumptions. I don't need a quasi scientific paper to tell me that his VO2 max is in the 90s. Maybe it's even higher but a vast majority of people you'd ask that would say it's 90 or higher. Not worth any attention whatsoever, this paper doesn't confirm or deny whatever your stance on him doping is, basically it's nonsense

 

[vappaxbipmv]

So why doesn't Pogacar just take a V02 max test, like Lemond and others have done, and publish the result? If indeed he has a high 90s score, then everyone will say, yep, that's why we can't beat him. On the other hand, if his score is much lower? It would mean a type of doping of exceptional quality.

At least to my knowledge, there's literally no proof at all that Lemond's VO2 max was as high as he claims. I would like to be proven wrong

Also, I refuse to believe that someone can be the best puncheur, best on short and best long climbs and not have an exceptionally high VO2 max, regardless of doping or no doping