National Football League

[ToreBear]

Sorry Leftovers... I agree with Foxy & Oldman about not getting too excited about that performance by Eli.

FWIW, I think Johnny F is going to bust, and so Jerry Jones was smart to pass on him in the draft. Jones did right by trying to rebuild an OLine to protect his QB.

WTH is going on in Bears camp??? Rookie CB Fuller makes a play on Martellus Bennett, and Bennett responds by slamming Fuller to the ground. That's not the surprising part. The effed up part is the Bears ending the practice, then fining and suspending Bennett for his part in the little fracus. The Bears organization is being stupid on this one. To me, the incident was all about nothing. STORY & VIDEO LINK HERE

I think it's a good move. It signals to the whole team what is unacceptable behavior. There also might be something we don't know about, like perhaps Bennett wanting to put the rookie in his place or something. This might create a poor team dynamic. Also what if he got injured because Bennett lost it, say broke his collarbone or something? Thats your 2014 1st rounder missing camp and being even more unprepared for when he finally is healthy. What if Bennett does it again, and something happens.

It's better to deal with it now. It was a stupid move by Bennett, and it could have hurt the team badly.

ps. The Buffalo front 7 was impressive.

 

[red_flanders]

The irony is that rugby has been looking at the NFL, talking about "hits" rather than tackles.

2 rules that make tackling a bit safer in rugby are having to use the arms no just shoulder charge (although they push boundaries on that one more often now) and making the tackler responsible for putting the tackled player down safely if they are lifted in the air.

Mind you the fact that you can be hit from any side in NFL particularly having just received the ball is a scary thought. A hospital pass in rugby was a nightmare but at least you knew where the hit was coming from.

The only rule that makes any meaningful difference is the use of a helmet. You simply cannot have the kind of impacts without them that you can have with them. In football you get hit hard in the head on almost every play, and sometimes traumatically.

Rugby is completely different. You simply cannot have two guys who run a 4.5 40 running at each other full speed and colliding with their heads without a helmet.

For those who think the padding makes the sport easier, I would suggest they haven't played both sports. I have, and it's not close. More broken noses and cauliflower ears in Rugby, the the impacts are not even close to as hard as in football. Football is a much rougher game and you are so much more likely to get a concussion or TBI I don't think they're comparable.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I think it's a good move. It signals to the whole team what is unacceptable behavior. There also might be something we don't know about, like perhaps Bennett wanting to put the rookie in his place or something. This might create a poor team dynamic. Also what if he got injured because Bennett lost it, say broke his collarbone or something? Thats your 2014 1st rounder missing camp and being even more unprepared for when he finally is healthy. What if Bennett does it again, and something happens.

It's better to deal with it now. It was a stupid move by Bennett, and it could have hurt the team badly.

I'm not saying don't deal with it. But there are different ways of dealing with it that are more effective than what Bears HC Trestman did. This type of scuffle is going to happen in almost every team's camp each year. Fining, suspending, and ending practice is not going to prevent it. For example, in the trenches it is a fist fight every time you go in there. Take this from today's Falcons camp during Hard Knocks filming: Biermann vs. Matthews Tempers will flare and things heat up. In Bennett's case, I'd say it looked more like high octane wrestling. Meh, I say just talk to the guy and tell him the concern about injury, don't do something that hurts the team, and forget the fines and suspensions. And then tell him, "you injure our first rounder in that manner and you'll sit a while". That will be more incentive to prevent this kind of stuff from happening later. But even that's not foolproof. There are stories of vets deliberately injuring a rookie positional competitor in the name of job security, but make it look like it was just part of the play. In the case of the Falcs Biermann vs Matthews, that really was a situation to just let slide. Personally, if I was HC, I'd rather have the guys have a go out in the open for everyone to see so they vent and get it out of their system, rather than resort to deliberate disguised sneak attacks.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I have to agree we don't know the whole story. But I liked the way Fuller took care of himself after the throwdown, then other players stepped in and broke it up. As a Bears fan, that would make me okay with what happened on the field. If I were coach I would have tossed Bennett's ass on the bench for a bit and yelled at him to stop being a jerk and an idiot. But again, I don't know the whole story.

FWIW, I think Johnny F is going to bust.

That's what I'm starting to see. He was too overconfident before even getting to camp, and now Brian Hoyer is bettering him. So much the Browns have listed Hoyer as the starter on the depth chart and he's getting more 1st team reps. They can say it was all part of the plan, but had Manziel outplayed him in camp, this would not have been the case.

This really should be hindsight to everyone. Hoyer learned under Belicheck and Brady, and by all indication worked his tail off in rehab and prep in the off season...while Manzeil was in Vegas partying.

 

[SirLes]

The only rule that makes any meaningful difference is the use of a helmet. You simply cannot have the kind of impacts without them that you can have with them. In football you get hit hard in the head on almost every play, and sometimes traumatically.

Rugby is completely different. You simply cannot have two guys who run a 4.5 40 running at each other full speed and colliding with their heads without a helmet.

For those who think the padding makes the sport easier, I would suggest they haven't played both sports. I have, and it's not close. More broken noses and cauliflower ears in Rugby, the the impacts are not even close to as hard as in football. Football is a much rougher game and you are so much more likely to get a concussion or TBI I don't think they're comparable.

Actually I forgot a couple of the the most important things that affect the tackle in rugby and that is that play doesn't stop at that point, it's just the start of the next battle. Also the fact that the ball carrier will often be trying to pass the ball as well. No point knocking the guy over in a spectacular fashion if he is then free to either get up and keep going or releases the ball to a team-mate without slowing the attack.

The continuous nature of rugby means that endurance is more of an issue.

I agree that the hits in football are harder but rugby does very nicely on the injury leagues and i think that fatigue in a game and through the season contribute!

Nice program with Dahani Jones travelling the globe when he sent time playing rugby. He struggled with the drinking after the game! Actually that was a good idea for a series as sport is such an important part of different countries' cultures.

 

[SirLes]

Re Eli, nice piece on NFL.com about first ballot HoFers. At the bottom it has this:

"OH RIGHT, ELI MANNING

Eli Manning

Eli is an outlier who exists in his own orbit. By the time he retires, Manning will own (at least) two Super Bowl wins, two Super Bowl MVP awards and every relevant Giants passing mark.

If 2013 was the start of a sharp decline, he might have to settle for the Big Blue Ring of Honor. If he bounces back, has 2-3 more productive seasons and makes another deep playoff run, he's a virtual lock. Which way will the wind blow?

Here's an exercise in futility: Try having a civilized Eli Manning conversation with a fan of any NFC East team. That includes Giants fans."

That pretty much sums it up!

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Just as we speculated, the entire Bennett story is a bit more detailed than one ugly tackle. Namely there has been a change in tone in the locker room, and he was on the wrong side of that and should have known better. My guess is he'll be back before too long.

Meanwhile, Daniel Snyder says the term *** means honor, and we need to do more for Native Americans. Well, he's certainly half right. The stats on Native American reservations/nations is bleak, even with all the gambling.

However, as I predicted a few weeks ago, in the long run he's going to lose on the use of the name. One of the key factors is when certain Native American leaders start speaking out against him, and are justly listened to, his entire "honor" crap isn't going to have a leg to stand on. And that process has started, as some Native American groups have called him out on it, with Oneida Nation representative Ray Halbritter calling it denigrating, along with other words that need to be said, and heard.

 

[ToreBear]

I'm not saying don't deal with it. But there are different ways of dealing with it that are more effective than what Bears HC Trestman did. This type of scuffle is going to happen in almost every team's camp each year. Fining, suspending, and ending practice is not going to prevent it. For example, in the trenches it is a fist fight every time you go in there. Take this from today's Falcons camp during Hard Knocks filming: Biermann vs. Matthews Tempers will flare and things heat up. In Bennett's case, I'd say it looked more like high octane wrestling. Meh, I say just talk to the guy and tell him the concern about injury, don't do something that hurts the team, and forget the fines and suspensions. And then tell him, "you injure our first rounder in that manner and you'll sit a while". That will be more incentive to prevent this kind of stuff from happening later. But even that's not foolproof. There are stories of vets deliberately injuring a rookie positional competitor in the name of job security, but make it look like it was just part of the play. In the case of the Falcs Biermann vs Matthews, that really was a situation to just let slide. Personally, if I was HC, I'd rather have the guys have a go out in the open for everyone to see so they vent and get it out of their system, rather than resort to deliberate disguised sneak attacks.

I understand were you are comming from. This is a mans game with plenty of testosterone and agression etc. Also they need to let off some steam.

I'm looking at it in a totally different way. There are many reasons why violence is a bad idea on a team.

1. If you are new to a workplace and you get thrown to the ground. How would that make you feel?

2. Will Fuller be so aggressive with Bennett on the next play, or will he limit himself, and in the end learn less and not be as good as he could be?

3. What message does it send to the other rookies?

4. This is not highschool or college. They are professionals and they should act like it. These are billion dollar franchises with a lot invested in these players.

5. If Bennett looses his cool in training, the likelyhood of him loosing his cool in a game is higher. That could cost the team a lot.

I'm sure there are other reasons. My understanding is that pressure to change the culture of the NFL is very strong, and changing how players treat each other on the team is a key piece in adapting to the 21st century.

Thats my theory. But, this will be my second season watching the NFL...

That's what I'm starting to see. He was too overconfident before even getting to camp, and now Brian Hoyer is bettering him. So much the Browns have listed Hoyer as the starter on the depth chart and he's getting more 1st team reps. They can say it was all part of the plan, but had Manziel outplayed him in camp, this would not have been the case.

This really should be hindsight to everyone. Hoyer learned under Belicheck and Brady, and by all indication worked his tail off in rehab and prep in the off season...while Manzeil was in Vegas partying.

I don't think Manziel starting was the plan at all. The national media loves him, but the local fan base loves Hoyer since he is a local boy, and he did well in the games he played last year. I haven't seen him play, just read about it, and as far as I understand it he is very good evading defenders and making plays. But in the NFL the defenders are much stronger and much faster. Hence he needs to learn to play in a different way. I think we will find out more on Saturday. I doubt Manziel will be facing Suh and the other first stringers, but he will face 2nd and 3rd stringers who are likely quite strong and fast.

Of all of the new QBs the only one I see as a day one starter is Bridgewater since he is apparently the most pro ready(I'm not 100% sure what that means, but I'm winging it).

Just as we speculated, the entire Bennett story is a bit more detailed than one ugly tackle. Namely there has been a change in tone in the locker room, and he was on the wrong side of that and should have known better. My guess is he'll be back before too long.

Meanwhile, Daniel Snyder says the term *** means honor, and we need to do more for Native Americans. Well, he's certainly half right. The stats on Native American reservations/nations is bleak, even with all the gambling.

However, as I predicted a few weeks ago, in the long run he's going to lose on the use of the name. One of the key factors is when certain Native American leaders start speaking out against him, and are justly listened to, his entire "honor" crap isn't going to have a leg to stand on. And that process has started, as some Native American groups have called him out on it, with Oneida Nation representative Ray Halbritter calling it denigrating, along with other words that need to be said, and heard.

Thanks, I suspected there was something more.


As for the Redskins. Could they call it the Washington Rednecks instead?

Sounds about the same, though they might have to change the logo. The question is if the Rednecks are fine with it and/or that is also a term that causes trouble.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

During Seattle DE-DT Michael Bennett's contract talks, he was rumored to be interested in signing with the Bears so he could play with bro Martellus. OFC that was more posturing than anything. But the real point now is, Martellus should come to Seattle so he could play with bro Michael. Na-na-na-na...
After all, Seattle did just lose TE Anthony McCoy to an achilles injury.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

On Johnny F: didn't I say early on that he was a project? He has so much more to learn coming out of college than most higher round draft picks, that it is no surprise Hoyer is the starter so far. I also said then he can learn, if he puts in the work, and he's got more work to put in than most. My bust prediction is just a hunch, but he still could prove me wrong on that. Won't be the first time I eat crow.

 

[Sciocco]

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/08/06/eagles-nfl-discussing-possible-kelly-green-uniform-change/

Do it!

Also, I'm hoping for some quality regression from Foles and a nice dud of a season for Philly Eagles. Mathematically eliminated by week 14, I can dream. Go flyers (hockey!), **** football (though I'll probably end up at a Rutgers U. game this fall).

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Yeah, the current "midnight green" jerseys look so Y2K. Let's go for the 70's glare.

 

[Amsterhammer]

NFL Game Pass no longer free in Europe.

I'll have to hope that there will be decent streams available. There appears to be one confirmed for tonight, fingers crossed.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

You Europeans and your "free" everything. In America we all work for what we want.

Six Pre-Season games today. I'm not going to make any predictions, but what I found most interesting is that on Stubhubif you want tickets to the Bengals-Chiefs game, they can be purchased for as little as $4. If you're looking to get a ticket to the Seahawks-Broncos game, it will set you back $76. Yes, you read that right, $76 for a pre-season game!

I won't be watching any of these, but may see some hilights. I don't blame anyone if they ignore the rest of this post.

Indy@Jets - Watch for Reggie Wayne, see if/how he plays, and how well his teammates respond to his return. Also watch for Jets defense, who will look to impress right away. Plus. Geno Smith has looked good in practice, so far.

NE@Wash - Only thing to watch as I see it is how well RG3 plays, if he's 100%, and how well the Skins offense plays against Revis and the new NE defense. If either team shows any cards.

SF@Bal - Neither team will show much, but watch the 1st team Ravens, especially Flacco, see how they did in the off season. Defense has a lot of new faces.

Cin @ KC - Watch for KC's offense, if the have anything. Dalton just signed a big contract (but most of it isn't guaranteed and bonus related), so he may toss a few long balls before sitting.

SEA@Den - No one cares. This isn't the Superbowl. Watch to see how the Broncos new defenders play I guess.

DAL@SD - Romo not expected to play, may not suit up. Brandon Weeden starts for Dal? SD has some new faces on defense, which stunk last year. Dal defense will stink. Game looks uninteresting to me.

 

[Oldman]

You Europeans and your "free" everything. In America we all work for what we want.

Six Pre-Season games today. I'm not going to make any predictions, but what I found most interesting is that on Stubhubif you want tickets to the Bengals-Chiefs game, they can be purchased for as little as $4. If you're looking to get a ticket to the Seahawks-Broncos game, it will set you back $76. Yes, you read that right, $76 for a pre-season game!

I won't be watching any of these, but may see some hilights. I don't blame anyone if they ignore the rest of this post.

Indy@Jets - Watch for Reggie Wayne, see if/how he plays, and how well his teammates respond to his return. Also watch for Jets defense, who will look to impress right away. Plus. Geno Smith has looked good in practice, so far.

NE@Wash - Only thing to watch as I see it is how well RG3 plays, if he's 100%, and how well the Skins offense plays against Revis and the new NE defense. If either team shows any cards.

SF@Bal - Neither team will show much, but watch the 1st team Ravens, especially Flacco, see how they did in the off season. Defense has a lot of new faces.

Cin @ KC - Watch for KC's offense, if the have anything. Dalton just signed a big contract (but most of it isn't guaranteed and bonus related), so he may toss a few long balls before sitting.

SEA@Den - No one cares. This isn't the Superbowl. Watch to see how the Broncos new defenders play I guess.

DAL@SD - Romo not expected to play, may not suit up. Brandon Weeden starts for Dal? SD has some new faces on defense, which stunk last year. Dal defense will stink. Game looks uninteresting to me.

Major outcome would be no key injuries for either team. There may be some embarrassed folks looking to make a statement...

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I think that's a major goal of nearly every team, don't have anyone get hurt in pre-season.

Meanwhile, after some raucous cheering by the local fans, the Denver Post had a good headline.

Let's not be silly about this. An encouraging preseason opener is a long way from a Super Bowl beatdown.

Interestingly enough, the game with the cheapest tickets (Cin@KC) looked to be the most exciting.

Here's a "What we learned" article about Thursday's games from NFL.com.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

On the NFL.COM's notes about the Seattle - Denver game, I agree mostly on Pryor and Ware, but would add this:
1. Ware should be a huge upgrade, but I would not let this game be any indication of what's to come because Ware did not face any starting Seattle offensive linemen. To start this game, every Seattle OL were out except for RG Sweezy.
2. At times, Pryor was inaccurate on his throws, including that last interception in the endzone, which was also forced into a crowd. That last mistake is easily correctable - just toss it away even if it would be 4th down coming up. But overall I was moderately impressed with Pryor. At this time I give him the edge over his positional competition BJ Daniels, but we did not see BJ last night. That competition is far from over.
3. Where does Seattle keep finding these CB's? Jefferson looked awesome all night.
4. Feel bad moment of the night: at the end of the game just before Pryor's INT, a wide open Seattle RB trying to make the team dropped a short dump off from Pryor for what would have been the go-ahead TD. That poor kid will be knawing at himself from inside out wanting that one back, knowing he can't afford to make mistakes like that with the RB's ahead of him on this roster.

 

[Oldman]

On the NFL.COM's notes about the Seattle - Denver game, I agree mostly on Pryor and Ware, but would add this:
1. Ware should be a huge upgrade, but I would not let this game be any indication of what's to come because Ware did not face any starting Seattle offensive linemen. To start this game, every Seattle OL were out except for RG Sweezy.
2. At times, Pryor was inaccurate on his throws, including that last interception in the endzone, which was also forced into a crowd. That last mistake is easily correctable - just toss it away even if it would be 4th down coming up. But overall I was moderately impressed with Pryor. At this time I give him the edge over his positional competition BJ Daniels, but we did not see BJ last night. That competition is far from over.
3. Where does Seattle keep finding these CB's? Jefferson looked awesome all night.
4. Feel bad moment of the night: at the end of the game just before Pryor's INT, a wide open Seattle RB trying to make the team dropped a short dump off from Pryor for what would have been the go-ahead TD. That poor kid will be knawing at himself from inside out wanting that one back, knowing he can't afford to make mistakes like that with the RB's ahead of him on this roster.

You hate to see a career moment slip away like that. He was sooo open.

 

[SirLes]

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2014/08/06/eagles-nfl-discussing-possible-kelly-green-uniform-change/

Do it!

Also, I'm hoping for some quality regression from Foles and a nice dud of a season for Philly Eagles. Mathematically eliminated by week 14, I can dream. Go flyers (hockey!), **** football (though I'll probably end up at a Rutgers U. game this fall).

Good start last night!

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I wouldn't read too much into one quarter of the 1st pre-season game. However, I also would be fairly surprised if Foles has the same season he had last year, tossing over 200 throws without a pick.

Not to be out done, Matt Shaub looked just as bad for Oakland. Derek Carr actually looked pretty good, with 1 pick that wasn't entirely his fault. But otherwise he showed good decision making and a quick release.

Matt Cassell outplayed Teddy Bridgewater in Minn, though Teddy did okay. And, sticking with the rookie QB's, Blake Bortles looked pretty good for the Jags, like, outplaying Chad Henne.

Now, are you guys ready to be part of the most watched pre-season game in NFL history when the Browns take on the Lions tonight?!

 

[SirLes]

I wouldn't read too much into one quarter of the 1st pre-season game. However, I also would be fairly surprised if Foles has the same season he had last year, tossing over 200 throws without a pick.

Not to be out done, Matt Shaub looked just as bad for Oakland. Derek Carr actually looked pretty good, with 1 pick that wasn't entirely his fault. But otherwise he showed good decision making and a quick release.

Matt Cassell outplayed Teddy Bridgewater in Minn, though Teddy did okay. And, sticking with the rookie QB's, Blake Bortles looked pretty good for the Jags, like, outplaying Chad Henne.

Now, are you guys ready to be part of the most watched pre-season game in NFL history when the Browns take on the Lions tonight?!

It's why I've got game pass. Makes the subscription worth it on its own. Not sure I'll stay up all night to watch it though

 

[ToreBear]

I wouldn't read too much into one quarter of the 1st pre-season game. However, I also would be fairly surprised if Foles has the same season he had last year, tossing over 200 throws without a pick.

Not to be out done, Matt Shaub looked just as bad for Oakland. Derek Carr actually looked pretty good, with 1 pick that wasn't entirely his fault. But otherwise he showed good decision making and a quick release.

Matt Cassell outplayed Teddy Bridgewater in Minn, though Teddy did okay. And, sticking with the rookie QB's, Blake Bortles looked pretty good for the Jags, like, outplaying Chad Henne.

Now, are you guys ready to be part of the most watched pre-season game in NFL history when the Browns take on the Lions tonight?!

Yep, just signed up for the game pass thingy as well. Though I'm at risk of falling asleep since the game starts at 01:30 AM CET.

Anyway I'm looking forward to see my favorite team, and if the 2nd stringers can get a sack or two or an interception on Manziel, even better.

 

[The Hitch]

NFL replay system is an absolute disgrace. Just ****ing make the call that the replay shows.

Cleveland got charged a timeout for making a challenge which was clearly right but because of the way the system is rigged, it got ruled a wrong challenge and they got punished

Of course means jack **** in pre season, but in the real season plenty of results will be wrongly overturned by **** like this.

In the 21st century why can't they just use replays to decide what actually happened rather than play around with some needless stipulations that makes things even worse.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

You are correct there Hitch. It's pretty amazing that Major League Baseball, which resisted instant replay for years, now has a system in place where a centralized studio can review every play from every camera angle fairly quickly. Yet, the NFL still seems suck in the last millennium with instant replay, even though they were one of the first major sports to use it.

Meanwhile, Johnny Football looked pretty good. We have to temper that knowing he wasn't playing against Suh or Fairly or any of the Lions first stringers, but he didn't have the first string offense either. He played a little better than Hoyer, and made some nice plays and no big mistakes. He showed most of all a good football instinct for making quick decisions.

 

[leftover pie]

There are stories of vets deliberately injuring a rookie positional competitor in the name of job security, but make it look like it was just part of the play. .

This happened to a guy I know in his first training session with an AFL team here, straight up broken nose from a "stray elbow" from the guy who was the established player in the position they both played (this was back in the day, it wouldn't pass scrutiny now). He admits in hindsight he was a bit naïve.


In other news, I didn't see any of the games but I watched Hard Knocks, most enjoyable. Rumour is we'll be seeing that on TV here but I haven't found the timeslot, had to resort to nefarious methods to obtain it.