No giro for Scarponi

[Oliver]

We should hope that Nibali rides it. Liquigas can controll all the climbs, then Bassa tries to drop everyone, while Nibali finally has a chance to attack Basso at the descents

Without Scarponi Nibali can win the Giro this year but on the other hand I'd love to see him back @ Tour de France after a few years of absence.

If Fr Schleck rides the Giro he will have a great chance to win but I doubt he will.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I wouldn't believe this. I'm sure scarponi will do the giro. lampre will demand it.

it won't matter much anyway but I rather have him take place as it makes rujanos'giro win look even more impressive than just against purito and basso :L

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

i dont impose my point. i was saying "may be". its well-known that basso always suffered in short tts. its possible to do 10km faster due to the fact one's organism works out quicker. tirreno and trentino is some observation, but its not the reason to make a definitive conclusion. im even sure basso would ride 30k better or at least good enough so that scarponi's minimal advantage in no way affect.

basso suffers in any itt since he's of the csc juice

 

[The Hitch]

indeed he is.
Think as far as team leaders go...
Rujano
Basso
Jrod
Nieve(?)
Gadret
Kreuziger(?)
VDV, Hesj(?)
Ullisi, Niemiec
Fuglsang
Pozzovivo
Henao
Konig
Slagter
Bruseghin, Quintana?

maybe a little thin, but we'll see.

majka in theory for saxo though i don't expect too much, but more importantly ag2r also have dupont.

 

[The Hitch]

no, i havent changed my point in regard to this tt. will you recognize your hypocrisy in case basso beats scarponi?)) huh, we are reasoning about a potential winner. do you think Scarponi is able to gain crucial seconds in TT?

You said basso was the better tter. when evidence was presented to you that suggests otherwise you dismissed it and pretended that you had actually been saying that scarponi wouldn't get much time on basso.

But what i don't get is why you call kvinto a hypocrite ? What has he said that makes him a hypocrite

 

[airstream]

You said basso was the better tter. when evidence was presented to you that suggests otherwise you dismissed it and pretended that you had actually been saying that scarponi wouldn't get much time on basso.

But what i don't get is why you call kvinto a hypocrite ? What has he said that makes him a hypocrite

why was my vision called a "hypocritical distortion of the facts"? is statistics the only thing on base of what we build on assumptions?? I was saying " given Basso's advantage in TTT and TT maybe", implying the TT on stage 21. Quite gentle formulation, isnt it? its majesty sport adores to be higher than any statistical comparisons, so please dont act like im obviously wrong. probably, i was speaking ambiguously in part of the discussion but i did not change my opinion.

 

[Kvinto]

why was my vision called a "hypocritical distortion of the facts"? is statictics the only thing on base of what we build on assumptions?? I was saying given Basso's advantage in TTT and TT maybe", implying the TT on stage 21. Quite gentle formulation, isnt it?

i'm sorry but i wasn't referring to 'Basso maybe has advantage in TT' but right after i mentioned their head-to-head results you posted:

They are both weak. But as i see Basso would ride 30k better on the penultimate day

So it turns out that when i present facts that Scarponi has better tt results then 'They are both weak' but if you still can find some conditions (a 30k tt on the penultimate day) which is pretty much an unknown terrain since we haven't seen both (Scarponi and Basso) in such a tt (so there is no facts) you say you think Basso would be better.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

VDV will be domestic for Hesjedal, since VDV is concentrating on the TDF. Im actually really curious about the line up for Movistar in the Giro, since I think Arroyo, Kiryienka both said to not ride it, Cobo and Valverde not riding so they probably come up with a selection like:

Bruseghin, Visconti, Samoilau, Quintana, Konovalavas, Pardilla, Lastras, Ventoso and another guy hopefully Moreno Bazan who can ride for himself.

Apparently, Movistar have already selected these:

Visconti, Bruseghin, Lastras, Intxausti, Pardilla, Ventoso and Amador. The last two spots would go to Herrada, Moreno, Samoilau, Costa or Quintana.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

and moreno and costa probably to the tour

 

[Leonardus]

Looks like quite weak field for the Giro, would be a shame for such a grand tour. Instead we can watch all the big names plus sub-top riders concentrate on the TdF and pile up in the first week in mass crashes and in the second week half the riders with some ambition for the GC will be home again with all kinds of injuries. The Giro deserves better, the most beautiful GT of the three.

 

[airstream]

whatever they say, i think either or arroyo or kiri will start the giro. the tour team doesn't need so many mountain helpers for alejandro. valverde, juanjo, costa, rojas, guti, plaza, inxausti are reserved. they need 1-2 guys more to do menial work on flat. its not for these 2

 

[Angliru]

You said basso was the better tter. when evidence was presented to you that suggests otherwise you dismissed it and pretended that you had actually been saying that scarponi wouldn't get much time on basso.

But what i don't get is why you call kvinto a hypocrite ? What has he said that makes him a hypocrite

Flip-flop. Flip-flop. Flip-flop.

 

[The Hitch]

Apparently, Movistar have already selected these:

Visconti, Bruseghin, Lastras, Intxausti, Pardilla, Ventoso and Amador. The last two spots would go to Herrada, Moreno, Samoilau, Costa or Quintana.

btw visconti has said that he wants to see what he can do in a gt now that hes with movistar.

And I don't see a reason why he can't like some others have done transfer form in classics and steep hills, into mountains skill.

 

[airstream]

is the results on one week races, where they often are on different form, the ultimate truth?

that you had actually been saying that scarponi wouldn't get much time on basso.

yeah. it just underlined that i dont consider the itt factor to be decisive.

 

[jens_attacks]

btw visconti has said that he wants to see what he can do in a gt now that hes with movistar.

And I don't see a reason why he can't like some others have done transfer form in classics and steep hills, into mountains skill.

the medical,science part is there.but it won't happen.
guys like armstrong or di luca had huge engines before becoming grand tour contenders.visconti didn't yet impress in 250 km races let alone grand tours.
on the other hand,bruseghin is exactly the opposite.even in last year's vuelta he was extremely strong,i think if he's in good condition he can easily make the top ten.the fact that the hard stages come in the 3rd week will be a huge advantage for him.
movistar has quite a good team for il giro,nothing to complain about.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

exactly jens./ visconti has trouble in races over 200 km. he seems very overrated somehow. visconti is build like a climber thought with his 176 and 60 kg but I doubt he'll be much of a factor

 

[jens_attacks]

i remember visconti did a nice ascent last year in padania,on san valentino di brentonico.here it is:

1 Ivan Basso (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale
2 Giovanni Visconti (Ita) Farnese Neri-Vini Sottoli 0:00:52
3 Francesco Masciarelli (Ita) Astana 0:01:08
4 Fortunato Baliani (Ita) D'Angelo & Antenucci) 0:01:17
5 Davide Rebellin (Ita) Miche-Guerciotti 0:01:24
6 Emanuele Sella (Ita) Androni Giocattoli 0:01:32
7 Simone Stortoni (Ita) Colnago - CSF Inox 0:02:34
8 Domenico Pozzovivo (Ita) Colnago - CSF Inox 0:02:53
9 Marek Rutkiewicz (Pol) Poland 0:02:57
10 Riccardo Chiarini (Ita) Androni Giocattoli 0:03:08

grand tours are different though so i doubt that visconti can become a grand tour conteneder

 

[roundabout]

I don't really see the point of Visconti trying for a GC. Not that he shouldn't but it would be better for the race for him to continue to be an aggressive attacking rider instead of trying to hang on for a top-20 in the mountains or saving his strength on the stages where he could attack.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

All of the so called contenders are running scared of Team Gadret.

 

[staubsauger]

at least, if igor anton and euskatel really want to win a grand tour he should go to the giro in top shape now, shouldn't they?

why is everybody underrating gadret that much? if he's able to repeat his last years perfomance, he's absolutely on the same level as basso! i doubt he could do so, but we have to keep him in our mind as a real favourite.

if rujano won't lose 6 minutes on a flat stage again, he could really win this. basso isn't get younger anymore. androni has a strong squad to support him with serpa, rodriguez, monsalve, ochoa e.t.c

my dark horse is still fuglsang. if he has great climbing form and is able to stay with the big guns yeah he could do it.

leipheimer should now really do it he? i still believe he's able to win a vuelta, so maybe he could also do it in this years giro? the route should suit him more than back in 2008 or 2009. finally he deserves a gt win, if you like him or not. but i don't see him choosing do ride the giro.

let's hope saxo bank get's dumped for aqua & sapone now. betancur and di luca should really add something to the start field now. and garzelli going for the kom and stage wins is also a good thing.

+ could rabobank really be that stupid to not send one of his three big guns to this giro? perfect chance for a dutch podium, even with kruiswijk!!! but their great tactic will be to send all 3 guys to france and archieve a 7th place....

 

[The Hitch]

the medical,science part is there.but it won't happen.
guys like armstrong or di luca had huge engines before becoming grand tour contenders.visconti didn't yet impress in 250 km races let alone grand tours.
.

exactly jens./ visconti has trouble in races over 200 km. he seems very overrated somehow. visconti is build like a climber thought with his 176 and 60 kg but I doubt he'll be much of a factor

Lombardia is way over 200 and he was one of the top guys there last year and finished 4th in 2008.

People keep looking to guys from the young ranks to break out based on their performances in Giro bio or tour lav or u23 world championships, but often you have to look to guys who have shown glimpses here and there in the pro ranks.

Who won a monument last year? Sicard with his u23 golden double, or Zaugg, with his top 10 on Angliru in 2008, which however long ago it may have been, did suggest there is pro rank talent in the lad.

Likewise its possible that Quintana announce his arrival at the Giro and Visconti will end up once again venting his anger on Diego Ulissi.

But its equally possible, that given the right prerperation,a guy who has performed in Lombardia and finished 2nd to Cadel Evans on one of the steepest hills in Tirreno Adriatico, ahead of, Scarponi, Basso, Poels, Gesink, Garzelli, and Nibali, can make the adjust-ions necessary to bring that climbing skills onto the Grandest Stage of them all.

I don't really see the point of Visconti trying for a GC. Not that he shouldn't but it would be better for the race for him to continue to be an aggressive attacking rider instead of trying to hang on for a top-20 in the mountains or saving his strength on the stages where he could attack.

With this lineup, top 20 - 2010, can easily be top 10. Hell I can see Dario Cataldo challenging for a top 5 here.

 

[Red Rick]

If Scarponi does the tour, he should do what Pelizotti did in 2009. Giro GC and stages, KOM in the tour. The thing he shouldn't do is getting caught with the blood passport

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

lombardia 2008 was a very weak race and visconti finished 4th in the race in a sprint with like 25 riders. I've seen visconti in wc's and he simply lacked engine there. we will see.

and what the hell does riding a top ten on angliru have to do with winning lombardia. and then coming of with sicard as an example. a talented rider who's literally been injured for 2 years now.

I agree that one should look not at results but more at how results have been achieved. betancourt and quintana are therefore great examples not for winning avenir and giro bio but the way they did. betancourt already had a fantastic year and quintana will have one too unless he gets injured or something. the natural class drips from those guys. same with henao who will also need zero time to adapt here and so far in mallorca he showed

 

[Escarabajo]

A lack of dominant riders could make for great racing. It could be crazier than usual. I enjoyed the 2006 Tour when they kicked out all the favorites.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I enjoyed only landis in 2006. the rets of the tour was boring and cowardly to me. as if no one wanted to win it but landis. still that won't happen in this giro with rujano there