Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

a total borefest if not for stina. and of course, heidi is much preferred to the muscle woman. my time was wasted, but only 80%. next to men shortly...

I missed the race, but looking at the results right now. Obviously a great distance result for Stina, but did she just not have it at the end to beat the asthmatics? I know Bjoergen and Oestberg are excellent sprinters with good closing speed at the end of distance races, but still. They were just better/faster/better tactically in the end?

stina was almost 99% of time just behind the treo. the 3 norges broke off immediately at the start but stina joined them rather soon. she was slightly troubled on one of the climbs but never dropping back more that 2-3 seconds to quickly rejoin the norges. at the finish she was more or less in the same 4th position within a couple of seconds but never having the strength to completely close up for a good sprint. it was surprising as it was to see her matching the weng, bjoergen and oestberg step for step in 10K race. she was of course the only one. perhaps parmakoski would have been able to compete for the podium but she dns. diggins also was in the start list but hasn't started..a relatively good performance from a young sedova..she was moving consistently forward from way back and may have had the top 5 time in the last 5 km.

anyway, looking forward to the men's 15k. it will be certainly more competitive with manificat, legkov, ustiugov, chervotkin, harvey all in agood position. no steep hils on a 2km loop...

Well, despite not beating the Norwegians, Stina had a great race. Perhaps the easier course helped her. She is a power skier, not a grafter so the gradual/flat parts are to her advantage. Having said that, she finished 2nd overall in last years Ruka triple. That is probably her best distance result, ever. She's already had some excellent distance results this year. I hope that she keeps expanding her repertoire and challenges for distance wins more often. Also would love to see her win a mini tour and overall world cup. The tour de ski will be difficult, mostly due to the Alpe Cermis final climb. We'll see. Yes, great result for Sedova. The young Russian women are progressing well. I think having them train with Cramer (former Swiss and German junior/development coach, also helped write Legkov and Chernousov's training) was a good move. Hopefully they continue to develop and start challenging the asthmatics soon.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's tougher than Antholz, but compared to Pokljuka and Ruhpolding which are notoriously difficult trails it's usually a cake-walk in NMNM in terms of altitude gain and loss and technical challenges, especially on the shortest loop (the 2k which the women will take on today). It looks like they've reprofiled it slightly since the 2013 Worlds though, and snow conditions certainly affect matters for obvious reasons. I think the race program also helps, what with this year having no relay (using the shorter, less selective loops) or Individual (which due to the 1' penalties for a miss has put the onus back on shooting) which they've had here in previous years. Also those two courses mentioned above suffer from having very high shooting percentages because while the trails are very tough, the run-in to the range is comparatively easy, as opposed to, say, Kontiolahti or Khanty-Mansiysk where the trails are selective but not quite as tough, however there's a serious climb into the stadium area so the recovery for shooting is harder.

 

[kingjr]

Nove Mesto is definitely one of the slower courses out there.


Here a little comparison with Ruhpolding (2.5k lap) from 2013

although relevance is limited if they have indeed reprofiled it a bit since then.


http://www.realbiathlon.com/2013/02/nove-mesto-courses.html

Here a comment from Svendsen


Svendsen who had a very successful IBU WCH at Nové Město in 2013 knows this is a good venue for him. "I really enjoy this place, the track suits me with the steep uphills, difficult turns and very hard track overall. So I am very happy with my 3rd place… a third place with one mistake is really good".

biathlonworld.com

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

It's tougher than Antholz, but compared to Pokljuka and Ruhpolding which are notoriously difficult trails it's usually a cake-walk in NMNM in terms of altitude gain and loss and technical challenges, especially on the shortest loop (the 2k which the women will take on today). It looks like they've reprofiled it slightly since the 2013 Worlds though, and snow conditions certainly affect matters for obvious reasons. I think the race program also helps, what with this year having no relay (using the shorter, less selective loops) or Individual (which due to the 1' penalties for a miss has put the onus back on shooting) which they've had here in previous years. Also those two courses mentioned above suffer from having very high shooting percentages because while the trails are very tough, the run-in to the range is comparatively easy, as opposed to, say, Kontiolahti or Khanty-Mansiysk where the trails are selective but not quite as tough, however there's a serious climb into the stadium area so the recovery for shooting is harder.

Pokljuka is a technical course but apart from that isn't too difficult in terms of uphills. I've skied there.

 

[kingjr]

Svendsen DNS today btw due to illness.

 

[python]

...encouraging that ustiogov did not give up the front right away after the 2nd intermediate...in such a soft conditions an 83 kg skier works much harder than a 75 kg-er like krogh, legkov or sundby

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Svendsen DNS today btw due to illness.

Likewise S. Fourcade.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Simon Fourcade hadn't qualified for the pursuit though?

Anyway, let's face it, a sprint between FHK and MJS was only ever going to have one winner... good to see some vestiges of the old Legkov back at least.

 

[kingjr]

Krogh pulls a Northug on Sundby, Ustiugov did well to hold on to 5th. Nice to see a German in the Top 10.

 

[python]

i am satisfied with what i saw. legkov would lose the finish 10 times out of 10 on a course like this. he is clearly getting in shape and isn't too concerned with the crap around his name. sorrry about the harvery and chervotkin fall....somewhat disappointed in manificat. i do think the ustiougov's 5th with the 2 intermediate max points is excellent for a ferking 15 C race.

 

[kingjr]

Re:

i am satisfied with what i saw. legkov would lose the finish 10 times out of 10 on a course like this. he is clearly getting in shape and isn't too concerned with the crap around his name. sorrry about the harvery and chervotkin fall....somewhat disappointed in manificat. i do think the ustiougov's 5th with the 2 intermediate max points is excellent for a ferking 15 C race.

15 F

 

[BullsFan22]

I am happy for Legkov. He didn't win, but he fought hard and deserves the podium, his first since the World Cup Finals in Falun in March 2014. After everything he must be going through in the last weeks/months, I think this is a tremendous effort. Also good to see Krogh winning, better than seeing the beard winning, though I would have preferred a non Norwegian. Ustiugov was solid, though I expected him to hang with the pace the whole race. Still, in those conditions, good effort. Tomorrow's relay should be fun between the Norwegians and Russians. The Finns will be tough as well, unless Niskanen isn't racing. He wasn't on the official roster. Olsson is predictably good when he shows up to race, every 4 months or so. Apparently Calle is sick? Not sure what happened to Chervotkin in the early stages of the race. Must have taken a fall and was delayed because he moved up tremendously well in the latter stages of the race. Considering where he was even midway in the race, that's quite a move. I think he's more than capable of hanging with the top guys. I expected him to hang with the leaders, but again, judging from the live timing, he must have had a fall or something that relegated him to the back of the pack.

 

[kingjr]

If Norway puts Sundby on leg 2 the race might already be over before the F section.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

If Norway puts Sundby on leg 2 the race might already be over before the F section.

That's exactly what happened in Nove Mesto last year, and he was on skate skis, double poled everything (well, what else can you do on skate skis in a classic race??)

 

[python]

Re: Re:

i am satisfied with what i saw. legkov would lose the finish 10 times out of 10 on a course like this. he is clearly getting in shape and isn't too concerned with the crap around his name. sorrry about the harvery and chervotkin fall....somewhat disappointed in manificat. i do think the ustiougov's 5th with the 2 intermediate max points is excellent for a ferking 15 C race.

15 F

i just checked the fis official results where they'd normally indicate the air and snow temperature...they have not posted it yet. .........ooops, they just did
http://medias2.fis-ski.com/pdf/2017/CC/2880/2017CC2880RL.pdf

the air was 8.5 C at the start which equals 47 F. certainly not 15 F but i do know from your previous posts , you keep normally keep good tabs on the weather during the biathlons

it was a 100% man-made icy snow, soft but i did not think it was slushy b/c they had a relatively thick base.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

i am satisfied with what i saw. legkov would lose the finish 10 times out of 10 on a course like this. he is clearly getting in shape and isn't too concerned with the crap around his name. sorrry about the harvery and chervotkin fall....somewhat disappointed in manificat. i do think the ustiougov's 5th with the 2 intermediate max points is excellent for a ferking 15 C race.

15 F

i just checked the fis official results where they'd normally indicate the air and snow temperature...they have not posted it yet. .........ooops, they just did
http://medias2.fis-ski.com/pdf/2017/CC/2880/2017CC2880RL.pdf

the air was 8.5 C at the start which equals 47 F. certainly not 15 F but i do know from your previous posts , you keep normally keep good tabs on the weather during the biathlons

it was a 100% man-made icy snow, soft but i did not think it was slushy b/c they had a relatively thick base.

I thought you meant C as in Classic DD

 

[python]

Re: Re:

i am satisfied with what i saw. legkov would lose the finish 10 times out of 10 on a course like this. he is clearly getting in shape and isn't too concerned with the crap around his name. sorrry about the harvery and chervotkin fall....somewhat disappointed in manificat. i do think the ustiougov's 5th with the 2 intermediate max points is excellent for a ferking 15 C race.

15 F

i just checked the fis official results where they'd normally indicate the air and snow temperature...they have not posted it yet. .........ooops, they just did
http://medias2.fis-ski.com/pdf/2017/CC/2880/2017CC2880RL.pdf

the air was 8.5 C at the start which equals 47 F. certainly not 15 F but i do know from your previous posts , you keep normally keep good tabs on the weather during the biathlons

it was a 100% man-made icy snow, soft but i did not think it was slushy b/c they had a relatively thick base.

I thought you meant C as in Classic DD

i see..

i normally would use 'skate' for a ski style. even then, if i was to use F, i'd write 16k F, b/c that's what it was...silly stuff

at the end of most races that i follow live, i try to make those little mental notes about the snow conditions and the relative performance of the heavy vs light skiers. a habit i keep from my own earlier experience b/c i suffer in soft snow being almost 2 m high. silly it is...

 

[portugal11]

Fourcade has already 6 wins this season. Who will stop him this season?

 

[Singer01]

Re:

Fourcade has already 6 wins this season. Who will stop him this season?

Svendson and JTB both had ski times yesterday that imply that they are getting close. But he is in his state of grace at the moment, so they probably only pick up wins when he has an off day.

Someone needs to do something though, because its boring as *** at the minute.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

He's had a couple of off days recently though, including the sprint here in Nové Město, and when he's had his off days nobody has been able to capitalise; when they have got things right, he's had one of those days when nobody can touch him. It seems even easier this year for him than in other seasons, and he's just toying with people now.

 

[portugal11]

Re:

He's had a couple of off days recently though, including the sprint here in Nové Město, and when he's had his off days nobody has been able to capitalise; when they have got things right, he's had one of those days when nobody can touch him. It seems even easier this year for him than in other seasons, and he's just toying with people now.

I don't understand why fourcade had a off day during the sprint in nove mesto... it's because he missed a shot?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

He's had a couple of off days recently though, including the sprint here in Nové Město, and when he's had his off days nobody has been able to capitalise; when they have got things right, he's had one of those days when nobody can touch him. It seems even easier this year for him than in other seasons, and he's just toying with people now.

I don't understand why fourcade had a off day during the sprint in nove mesto... it's because he missed a shot?

Compare the time gaps to Östersund. He was beatable on Thursday. Sure it would have taken others at their best, but that IS an off day for Fourcade. Had Shipulin gone after Martin and had the split times to go for, knowing how much he had to keep in reserve, or just having that target time rather than going all out and hoping it would be enough with others chasing, maybe it could have been different. But that's the problem: Martin's off days are days when he might be pushed down to a lower step on the podium, or if we're really lucky, just in the flower ceremony. JTB, Shipulin and Schempp have all had moments where their bad days have seen them miss the World Cup points or even the pursuit qualification entirely.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

He's had a couple of off days recently though, including the sprint here in Nové Město, and when he's had his off days nobody has been able to capitalise; when they have got things right, he's had one of those days when nobody can touch him. It seems even easier this year for him than in other seasons, and he's just toying with people now.

I don't understand why fourcade had a off day during the sprint in nove mesto... it's because he missed a shot?

Men's biathlon has come to the point where Fourcade shooting 9/10 is now equivalent to Fourcade having a bad day. That's how bad it is.

 

[portugal11]

Re: Re:

He's had a couple of off days recently though, including the sprint here in Nové Město, and when he's had his off days nobody has been able to capitalise; when they have got things right, he's had one of those days when nobody can touch him. It seems even easier this year for him than in other seasons, and he's just toying with people now.

I don't understand why fourcade had a off day during the sprint in nove mesto... it's because he missed a shot?

Men's biathlon has come to the point where Fourcade shooting 9/10 is now equivalent to Fourcade having a bad day. That's how bad it is.

I would saying this if you didn't say it. An off day for fourcade was when he did third in the pursuit

 

[Kokoso]

Re:

It's tougher than Antholz, but compared to Pokljuka and Ruhpolding which are notoriously difficult trails it's usually a cake-walk in NMNM in terms of altitude gain and loss and technical challenges, especially on the shortest loop (the 2k which the women will take on today). It looks like they've reprofiled it slightly since the 2013 Worlds though, and snow conditions certainly affect matters for obvious reasons. I think the race program also helps, what with this year having no relay (using the shorter, less selective loops) or Individual (which due to the 1' penalties for a miss has put the onus back on shooting) which they've had here in previous years. Also those two courses mentioned above suffer from having very high shooting percentages because while the trails are very tough, the run-in to the range is comparatively easy, as opposed to, say, Kontiolahti or Khanty-Mansiysk where the trails are selective but not quite as tough, however there's a serious climb into the stadium area so the recovery for shooting is harder.

I was not arguing which venue is tougher than others that much; more like your initional claim that Dahlmeier, Kaisa and Koukalova (fastest skiers) had problem to gain time on slower skiers when it was clearly the other way round and they've gained unusual amount of time.

Judging from reactions of some including Svendsen it looks that Nove Mesto course is one of the toughest out there which is quite the opposite of what you claim (or claimed previously) - that it's one of the easiest courses out there. You've too begun to change your opinion since back then.