Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Bavarianrider]

The stupidity of cross country officals is really beyond any Imagination. they always tel us that we need These horse *** formats like skiathlon, masstarts and so on that are killing traditional xc skiing in order to be attractive for the mainstream TV audience. If this was the case, then why would shedule your Tour de Ski in such a horrendous way. On Saturday and Sunay they had to compete against the four hills tournament and therefore most races weren't even shown live on Mainstream TV. Today four hill tournaments rests and of course Tour de Ski rests too. Why would you do that? That's just so plane silly and just one example for the brain dead officals.

 

[roundabout]

The stupidity of cross country officals is really beyond any Imagination. they always tel us that we need These horse **** formats like skiathlon, masstarts and so on that are killing traditional xc skiing in order to be attractive for the mainstream TV audience. If this was the case, then why would shedule your Tour de Ski in such a horrendous way. On Saturday and Sunay they had to compete against the four hills tournament and therefore most races weren't even shown live on Mainstream TV. Today four hill tournaments rests and of course Tour de Ski rests too. Why would you do that? That's just so plane silly and just one example for the brain dead officals.

Eurosport international had all races live on the weekend. I think only the QFs for the ladies sprint and 1 heat for the men were missed.

And of course races in Oberstdorf are scheduled with the 4 hills in mind.

 

[May0maniac]

Krogh having a bad day was a big surprise, I didn't expect that. I also expected a bit more from Falla.
About the weather in Toblach, on the 2 days before the race we could get just a little bit of snow, but on Friday the weather should be nice, but cold, almost -20° C in the morning and a cold wind with gusts of wind up to 60km/h.

 

[python]

per the norwegian media, krogh seemed to have suffered the altitude effects (mustair is at appr. 1800 m) of the previous day's intense sprints. i think it makes sense. he tried to stay upfront during the 1st 2.5 km lap which was the fastest of the 4 and got burned out...there was even some talk (from him) of dropping out. I don't think he will.

the skiathlon will probably answer if ustiougov has a realistic chance at a gc win...the norge coaching staff is sure that sundby should win tomorrow. he very well may. but if he does not do it in fashion we all are used to, that is, creating some early gaps that kept on increasing, it would signify he's not as superior as he was.

i actually think that hellner, cologna and harvey, given their very solid showing in a classic race yesterday, will not let the 2 leaders free. all 5 have come to the tds from the altitude camps. it is obvious that ustiougov is at the very peak RIGHT NOW. he may struggle to keep it later, while hellner and cologna should only get faster. harvey will certainly fight for his 3d overall as will larkov, who is doing quite well too being 4th on a gc.

i do not think the course in oberstdorf is exceeding tough, which, if the skis are prepped equally, would limit the sundby advantage up those long and steep hills. but hellner loves those when he's in shape...

regarding the live streaming...i dont think eurosport had it live on day 1. neither did the nrk the 1st 2 stages (unusual). but the svt did cocver everything live. and the nrk, i understand, will be on live as usual starting tomorrow. as will the eurosport 1.

 

[BullsFan22]

Ustiugov is an angry and motivated man that's in really good shape right now. The format suits him pretty well, despite there only being one sprint at this tour. Had there been another one, Sundby would have been even more on the defensive. The skiathlon tomorrow should be interesting. Heavy snowfall, a tough Oberstdorf course (though not as technical as Val Mustair), and 20km's+bonus sprints should make for some exciting racing. If the snow is really as heavy as they say, then it's going to be hard to break the race open, but you never know with Sundby. Technically he is very efficient in both styles and if he's feeling really good, he might try to open the gap already during the classic portion. If the snowfall isn't that much and the tracks aren't soft and beaten up, then we may see some moves coming in early for sure. Another possibility is that Ustiugov and Sundby may not go that hard. They have a good advantage over Harvey, Larkov and the others, so they may just focus on getting to the finish line without too many problems. If the contenders behind the front two want to gain time back, they'll be going for those bonus seconds. Having said that, people have blown up in these types of races before. They'll go for the sprints, but then have nothing left later in the race. Again, my thinking is that the front two may not go all out tomorrow. They'll focus on the handicap pursuit on Wednesday and will work together to extend whatever lead they have on the rest of the field. If the gaps are similar by the end of tomorrow, I expect Sundby to catch Ustiugov in the 15km handicap and they'll work together. If that happens, and they do work very well, then the race really will be between two men. Krogh lost almost a minute in the 10km yesterday, so he'll need to gain good chunks in every stage. Harvey will be consistent (as he always seems to be in these tours) but he has had problems in individual distance race starts in tours (like the one in Toblach, the 10km skate later this week) and the Alpe Cermis where he hasn't been able to match the best or simply not started the stage at all. I don't see him making the podium. Larkov will be tough as well, but again, the final climb may prove too much. Toenseth had a poor final climb last year, despite his light frame and good, efficient technique. That battle for 3-10 will be just as good as the battle for the title. This may be the year where Sundby is finally beaten in a stage race. Not counting the 2015 tour title that was stripped from him, he needed the last stage of the Ski Tour Canada to overtake Ustiugov. I think Ustiugov may be even more tough this year. The big question is the Alpe Cermis, as it is for virtually everyone. I personally don't think he'll lose much, if anything, before the final stage.

The women's race will be another similar battle. I don't think Oestberg will have enough of a time gap, if any, to hold off Weng, but who knows. I hope Parmakoski gets closer and then it's a three horse race for the title. Nilsson needed another sprint race to have a shot at a podium, so I don't think she'll get a podium, but a top 5 or 6 is very probable. Tomorrow's skiathlon and the Alpe Cermis are the danger stages for her.

 

[python]

jeezus, i am pinching myself STILL not sure if i woke up...

stina just 2 mins ago won a 10km combined ! if someone told me it will happen, i'd send them to check their heads. perhaps kalla had a 1 in 5 chance. stina's was 1 in 100. i am ready now for a surprise in the men's race

 

[Bavarianrider]

Oh god, so the even the women's race was a snoozefest for the first 90% of the race. This isn't a very good signn for the men's race, I guess. :lol: :lol:

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

jeezus, i am pinching myself STILL not sure if i woke up...

stina just 2 mins ago won a 10km combined ! if someone told me it will happen, i'd send them to check their heads. perhaps kalla had a 1 in 5 chance. stina's was 1 in 100. i am ready now for a surprise in the men's race

Considering Kalla's season up to this point, I think I was more shocked by her race than Nilsson, to be honest. Kalla had an awful 10km in Kuusamo and was diagnosed with some sort of arrhythmia, missed all the subsequent world cups, did a couple Scandinavian Cup races in Lillehammer last month and then had an awful first couple races in the Tour. Now she's back with a bang. Nilsson appears to be in the form of her life, though we all know that she is capable of this. Kalla is obviously capable of winning these types of races, but again, given what she's had to deal with, AND being literally in tears after the 5km the other day, this is quite a recovery.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Now she's back with a bang.

She was 8th.

 

[python]

Re: Re:

jeezus, i am pinching myself STILL not sure if i woke up...

stina just 2 mins ago won a 10km combined ! if someone told me it will happen, i'd send them to check their heads. perhaps kalla had a 1 in 5 chance. stina's was 1 in 100. i am ready now for a surprise in the men's race

Considering Kalla's season up to this point, I think I was more shocked by her race than Nilsson, to be honest. Kalla had an awful 10km in Kuusamo and was diagnosed with some sort of arrhythmia, missed all the subsequent world cups, did a couple Scandinavian Cup races in Lillehammer last month and then had an awful first couple races in the Tour. Now she's back with a bang. Nilsson appears to be in the form of her life, though we all know that she is capable of this. Kalla is obviously capable of winning these types of races, but again, given what she's had to deal with, AND being literally in tears after the 5km the other day, this is quite a recovery.

it is hard to figure out what was wrong with kalla when she suddenly lost performance early this season... i am guessing it's a combination of several things many of which have been mentioned...good to see her finding her rhythm. i am still suspecting, that unlike stina, she has some room to reduce her bulk.

as to stina, she's visibly skinnier this season...perhaps papa iversen had invested seriously into his potential daughter in law also, her head is in the right place. always was. I spotted her long ago as something very special (besides the fact she looks very much like my older daughter). Just like I spotted ustiuogov (and consistently posted about his talent here over 4 years ago).

 

[Bavarianrider]

Well, Ustiogov surely could have been cracked today. Sundby had no Need to do so, as he will surely catch him tomorrow anyway. Cologna missed a Chance today, though.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Now she's back with a bang.

She was 8th.

Considering where she was just two days ago, this is a big improvement. Just because someone doesn't win or even get on the podium, it doesn't mean it's not day and night performance change for Kalla. You must be really angry (from the other thread) to reply to that though.

 

[python]

ustiougov achieves 3 out of 3. all by mere seconds over a runner-up. nothing like the sort of dominance we saw from sundby for nearly 3-4 seasons

in all his victories in the tds one can see one and the same winning manner - an unmatched acceleration on the last hill or matching someone's acceleration on the last hill. it's similar to northug, but not quite the same, b/c northug never takes the lead, while sehey does and did quite frequently.

what else was noteworthy today...sundby going off track, and ustiougov going to the front pouring pressure. it worked, since sundby was completely out of the bonus seconds. plus, he lost 10-15 seconds catching up. was it unsporting like ? i would probably behave diffrenly, but can't blame another person for a tactic that's not against the rules. credit to sundby, post-race he said he's not angry at the russian.

as i expected, strong performances from cologna, hellner and harvey. in fact, my top prediction yesterday turned 100% accurate. manificat sparked, but soon expired. in general, it is a mild surprise there were only 2 norges in the top 10.

in closing, i have to note that sundby in almost all interviews sounds very humble and modest. multiple compliments to the russian and the expression of full confidence. why is martin suddenly no longer arrogant
but in all seriousness, he deserved my kudos for staring to sound as a gentleman...

tomorrows pursuit will be a lot of fun with the top 2 separated by 30 seconds and surely racing a time trial.
unlike in most pursuits, sundby will NOT have a team mate to rely on tactically. i cant make a prediction but hope ustiougov holds.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Considering where she was just two days ago, this is a big improvement. Just because someone doesn't win or even get on the podium, it doesn't mean it's not day and night performance change for Kalla. You must be really angry (from the other thread) to reply to that though.

Looks like you think I have the right to feel angry, great

Now I don't think I've answered that way. I've considers this: Kalla is great athlete, capable of much better performance than this one. She won two races in the FIS cup where in December, so she should be in decent shape. In sprint few days ago she also was decent. Thus that 8th place doesn't certainly come as surprise, certainly not as huge one. She simply is where she should be and still level below.

 

[meat puppet]

not to take anything out of nilssons win, not an inch, she deserves it surely. but the way todays stage was raced, ie slow tempo overall with stop-go dynamics on a flattish track, clearly favoured skiers with attributes similar to hers - to wit, the capacity to rip it up properly at the end.

My guess is Kalla, who still is clearly below her capacity imo, also benefited from the way the race went.

Be interesting to see how Nilson fares if and when distance stages are raced in a more traditional way, or pedal to the metal from the gun.

In men heikkinen is doing quite well, might even podium despite the handicap from the sprint, if he does not blow. And that is a Big if. Todays venture off the track with sundby cost some energy surely. Moreover he usually stalls some as a stage race progresses due to alleged recovery disadvantages, though. Then again he also tends to be quick up the alpe cermis thanks to his slight build.

Glad to see ustyugov holding off the Norwegians.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Considering where she was just two days ago, this is a big improvement. Just because someone doesn't win or even get on the podium, it doesn't mean it's not day and night performance change for Kalla. You must be really angry (from the other thread) to reply to that though.

Looks like you think I have the right to feel angry, great

Now I don't think I've answered that way. I've considers this: Kalla is great athlete, capable of much better performance than this one. She won two races in the FIS cup where in December, so she should be in decent shape. In sprint few days ago she also was decent. Thus that 8th place doesn't certainly come as surprise, certainly not as huge one. She simply is where she should be and still level below.

I am saying in terms of where she's been recently, not what she is actually capable of. She is obviously more than capable of winning a race like today's, and if she was at her best, a result like 8th in a field that's maybe not the strongest she's ever competed against, would have been a bit of a disappointment. Since she has had health issues this year, and where she was just two days ago, finishing 41st in the 5km classic, to contend for the entire race and come in 8th is good news for her.

 

[python]

after what i just saw, I am starting to think that heidi may not win this tour.

yes, it's only half the tour over, but stina is brilliant. just brilliant - both in her body and mind.

1st about her mind. she just ran a tactically brilliant pursuit. gracefully allowing the 2 norge gals to catch, even towing them for a lap, and then inviting the ever uncomplicated norwegian tactic. that is, 'go ahead and drop me, like you always did' which they tried. tried desperately. even demanding (i think it was heidi) that stina share the lead. of course, stina was smarter than the idiotic idea of towing 2 team mates of the most dominant nation. so, that's why i say she was brilliant tactically.

as to her body, it was obvious she could match heidi on the steepest portions. no matter how hard they tried to drop her. i watched it in HD. heidi's face was a grimass of pain...

that's why i start to believe she may not be able to outpace stina on the alpe cermis...

waiting for ustiogov to hold out in 2 hours.

 

[TomasC]

Any stream anyone please? Not too much hope..

 

[TomasC]

What a good show, Sundby closed it to 17 secs, maybe less, but it's 37 at the finish!
Sundby was spent, did not try to sprint. Or did not care. Bravo Sergey.

 

[python]

Re:

What a good show, Sundby closed it to 17 secs, maybe less, but it's 37 at the finish!
Sundby was spent, did not try to sprint. Or did not care. Bravo Sergey.

good you were able to watch the rest...if interested in the future, seek svt and nrk. if georesticted use hola...

anyway, like stina an hour earlier, ustiogo ran tactically smart, but in a different way. it wasn't difficult to fugure that martin will try to do ANYTHING to close the gap as early as possible
and he sure tried and was clawed 12 seconds off the initial 29 by the mid race. sure enough, the russ knew it and dangled himself as a bate. as soon as he heard that martin was spent the russ injected some pace. smart !
but to be this smart one also has to be very fit, b/c out skating sundby was everyone's pipe dream for 3+ years.

also consider it wasn't the type of track condition where an 83 kg skier would be the most efficient - above freezing temp and the fresh snow made it soft and saggy. that the russ was able to hold out speaks to his fantastic form and his tactical acumen.

it's ok by me if stina and the russ win the overall. regarding the rest of the race, i need to look up the results (it's been only 20 mins since the finish). cologna looks good to pass harvey eventually and even try to reach out to sundby (they are 30 sec or so apart).

have to verify it, but i think 4 of 4 has never been done in the history of the tds

 

[TomasC]

Finally I found a good polish stream, which did not matter because I could not use the audio anyway. Next time nrk or svt it is, thanks!
Yesterday I read somewhere that it was the 1st time someone won 3 of 3 in TdS, so it must be a record today.

 

[python]

..3 of 3 in the tds i think was done BEFORE. i recall (possibly your compatriot) lucas bauer doing it. he was in my book the best classic technician. perhaps EVER. but the 4 of 4, i just checked, is a new level.

and you know what ? i believe it may not be clinical if i find the time, i will contribute in the right place WHY.

 

[John de Savage]

Re:

Stina doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning this Tour. She'll get dropped like a sack of potatoes on Alpe Cermis. Last year she lost 4 min 30 sec to Heidi while Ingvild lost 1 min 30 sec, despite being in great form and even leading Johaug ahead of the final stage. Stina should do better this year, but she's much bigger than Flycity-Eastmountain and not as strong. She won't keep up with Weng.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

..3 of 3 in the tds i think was done BEFORE. i recall (possibly your compatriot) lucas bauer doing it. he was in my book the best classic technician. perhaps EVER. but the 4 of 4, i just checked, is a new level.

and you know what ? i believe it may not be clinical if i find the time, i will contribute in the right place WHY.

According to FIS, Ustiugov broke the record of number of wins in a row at a TDS. His lead is now at 42 seconds. He should easily hold the lead during the 10km skate in Toblach, but the last two stages will be really tough. Not only will he be tired (well, all of them will be tired, but he's expanded a lot of energy so far), the 15km classic will be a game of chess. I think the Norwegians will do team tactics. I have no doubt about that. They'll use pretty much everyone on the team that's still in the tour at that point to shield and pull Sundby forward, particularly for the bonus sprints. They'll pull hard and will probably try to have a number of guys in between Sundby and Ustiugov or simply not give Ustiugov any room for those bonus sprints, no matter what Sundby does. Either that or Sundby will just go hard from the start and see if anyone, particularly Ustiugov can hang on. The Alpe Cermis is an advantage to Sundby, but if the gap is over one minute, I am not sure he can catch Ustiugov. I don't think Harvey will get on the podium at the end, simply because he doesn't have a strong history of results on that climb and he's got some of the best climbers in the world breathing down his neck: Cologna, Heikkinen, Hellner and Manificat. He'll be in a similar position as Ustiugov. Shouldn't worry about the Toblach 10km, though he's had some bad races there before, but the 15km will be important for him to gain some time and have more of a cushion. On the other side, the climbers i mentioned will need to go hard every stage now. If Harvey, Cologna, Heikkinen, Hellner and Manificat are all within 30 seconds of each other at the start of the final stage, then that will be one heck of a battle.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Stina doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning this Tour. She'll get dropped like a sack of potatoes on Alpe Cermis. Last year she lost 4 min 30 sec to Heidi while Ingvild lost 1 min 30 sec, despite being in great form and even leading Johaug ahead of the final stage. Stina should do better this year, but she's much bigger than Flycity-Eastmountain and not as strong. She won't keep up with Weng.

No doubt. I'd love to see her win the tour, but she'll need even more time than Ustiugov will over Sundby to have a chance, and since there's no more sprints, I am afraid it's advantage Weng. Not sure if Oestberg will fare better than she did last year on Alpe Cermis, but she has an edge over Stina, as does Parmakoski. I think Stina is simply skiing to her strength and winning stages. It's been a great tour, no matter where she ends up. Honestly, I can't see her even making the podium in the end, but I'd love to be proven wrong. The tour is much more enjoyable simply because Johaug isn't here, winning races by wide margins.