Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Blaaswix]

Re:

The ladies are about to start the climb. Weng has almost caught nilsson.

Here's a live GPS tracker for those without a feed

http://static.sportresult.com/federations/fis/livetracker/cc/index.html#baseFrame#outputs/results/fis/liveTracker/js/mappings/liveTrackerRoot#RootInit#CURRENTEVENT_JSON##main-frame_content#outputs/results/fis/liveTracker/js/mappings/liveTrackerRoot#ContentSubFrame#CURRENTEVENT_JSON##sub-frame_content#outputs/results/fis/liveTracker/js/mappings/liveTrackerPlayer#LiveTrackerPlayerInit#SEASON_CC1617_CC_json#Events.CC1617SWRLCP08

Weng, Parmakoski, Nilsson, Østberg at the finish. Nilsson held off Østberg at the end, which was a great effort considering hoe she'd faded on the hill.

 

[python]

happy to see the tremendous progress of the finnish ladies...parma passing stina is ok by me as along as oestberg was distanced. which he was !!! i think it was more that stina's luck. it was good pacing.

i still like heidi and glad she won but her screaming and crying so much has me irritated...

the track seemed was fast and well packed which should help ustiuogov and manificat.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

happy to see the tremendous progress of the finnish ladies...parma passing stina is ok by me as along as oestberg was distanced. which he was !!! i think it was more that stina's luck. it was good pacing.

i still like heidi and glad she won but her screaming and crying so much has me irritated...

the track seemed was fast and well packed which should help ustiuogov and manificat.

I really don't understand the screaming from Weng or from Johaug when she would cross the line. I completely understand the happiness and excitement, but it's strange and annoying.

I know she's had an excellent season so far, particularly at the tour, but I feel a bit sorry for Nilsson. She was by far the most consistent skier at the tour, and to lose not first but second in 15-20 minutes is a bit cruel. I sincerely hope that the same thing doesn't happen to Ustiugov. CLEARLY the best skier on tour right now and he's done all the right things so far, even if he lost 20 odd seconds (through bonus sprints) to Sundby yesterday. He's managed his energy, skied to his strengths (like Nilsson) and has stayed out of trouble, winning 5 in a row.

 

[Blaaswix]

Re:

happy to see the tremendous progress of the finnish ladies...parma passing stina is ok by me as along as oestberg was distanced. which he was !!! i think it was more that stina's luck. it was good pacing.

i still like heidi and glad she won but her screaming and crying so much has me irritated...

the track seemed was fast and well packed which should help ustiuogov and manificat.

I didn't like how Weng didn't even acknowledge that Parmakoski corssed the line in second place, she stepped over her and shouted support for Østberg who was way behind. I know they all pretty much collapse over the line at Val de Fiemme, and Ostberg's her team mate but even so, I would have liked to see Weng give a quick 'well done' to Parma.

 

[Brullnux]

Well done to Ustiugov, and Cologna was seriously impressive on that final 600 metres or so.

 

[BullsFan22]

USTIUGOV FTW!!! Someone took down Sundby!!! It feels it's been a long time. His (now former) coaches Isabel Knauthe and Reto Burgermeister said a couple years ago that Ustiugov has all the tools necessary to become best skier in the world. If I remember correctly, they compared him and Northug and said Sergey has more natural ability. Stina couldn't do it today, but Sergey did! I know there will be those that disagree but it's very refreshing someone beside Sundby win the Tour de Ski. The kid dominated juniors, dominated u23's and is now crushing the world cup's. The sky is the limit for him. Let's now hope he and his coaches are smart about the scheduling. He needs to rest, recover, stay healthy and two peaks in one season are possible.

 

[python]

Re:

Well done to Ustiugov, and Cologna was seriously impressive on that final 600 metres or so.

i agree, cologna was incredible. i think he prevailed b/c of huge experience. i am neutral on him, on matti or maurice, but i like when guts and smarts win.

huge congratulations to ustiugov ! i really like that he disproved northug. that an 83 kg athlete can not win the tour b/c of the last climb. he did. and it was NOT so much b/c of his superior sprinting as a discipline (there was only 1 sprint instead of the usual 2 and even there sundby lost only a handful of seconds). i am rather sure he won b/c he has the largest aerobic engine among the current competition. I am speculating his absolute VO2 max is around 7 litres. that's the only way he could match sundby's speed up the climb and the beard is almost 10 kg lighter. tremendous !

at 24 he's still developing.

 

[John de Savage]

Stage times:

1. Manificat 29:20.0
2. Heikkinen +6.1
3. Holund +15.8
4. Hellner +19.0
5. Cologna +22.7
6. Bessmertnykh +37.5
7. Røthe +41.6
8. Krüger +43.6
9. Burman +53.8
10. Dyrhaug +56.0
11. Bögl +58.1
12. Sundby +58.7
13. Livers +1:00.6
14. Harvey +1:04.9
15. Hoffman +1:05.3
16. Ustiugov +1:07.7
17. Pepene +1:13.1
18. Melnichenko +1:14.7
19. Tønseth +1:16.8
20. Larkov +1:18.4

Isolated climbing times:

1. Manificat 16:24.0
2. Bessmertnykh +2.6
3. Heikkinen +3.6
4. Cologna +6.7
5. Holund +10.8
6. Hellner +15.8
7. Burman +19.4
8. Røthe +23.0
9. Pepene +28.5
10. Hoffman +32.1
11. Krüger +32.8
12. Larkov +33.5
13. Bögl +34.0
14. Livers +41.3
15. Notz +42.1
16. Melnichenko +43.9
17. Sundby +44.7
18. Dyrhaug +45.8
19. Tønseth +50.0
20. Ustiugov +56.7

 

[May0maniac]

Bessmertnykh really surprised me, that was a monster effort.
Sundby wasn't able to perform on the same level as the last few years, he used to be one of the fastest guys on Alpe Cermis.
De Fabiani really cracked, but I hope that he'll be back for the WC.
Ustiugov should just rest and forget about the sprint in Toblach and the next few races.
Cologna said on Swiss TV that he expects to be even stronger at the WC.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Stage times:

1. Manificat 29:20.0
2. Heikkinen +6.1
3. Holund +15.8
4. Hellner +19.0
5. Cologna +22.7
6. Bessmertnykh +37.5
7. Røthe +41.6
8. Krüger +43.6
9. Burman +53.8
10. Dyrhaug +56.0
11. Bögl +58.1
12. Sundby +58.7
13. Livers +1:00.6
14. Harvey +1:04.9
15. Hoffman +1:05.3
16. Ustiugov +1:07.7
17. Pepene +1:13.1
18. Melnichenko +1:14.7
19. Tønseth +1:16.8
20. Larkov +1:18.4

Isolated climbing times:

1. Manificat 16:24.0
2. Bessmertnykh +2.6
3. Heikkinen +3.6
4. Cologna +6.7
5. Holund +10.8
6. Hellner +15.8
7. Burman +19.4
8. Røthe +23.0
9. Pepene +28.5
10. Hoffman +32.1
11. Krüger +32.8
12. Larkov +33.5
13. Bögl +34.0
14. Livers +41.3
15. Notz +42.1
16. Melnichenko +43.9
17. Sundby +44.7
18. Dyrhaug +45.8
19. Tønseth +50.0
20. Ustiugov +56.7

When I first saw the official times for the stage (including the hill), I was scratching my head and had to double and triple check the results: Bessmertnykh with 6th fastest stage time, and 2nd fastest (!!!!!!) hill climb?!?! What in the world?? If this was skied in the classic style, it would not be surprising at all, but in the skate?? WOW

 

[meat puppet]

Good race, that! And about time someone dethroned the beard. Surely ustiugov has insane absolute aerobic capacity as Python speculates. Perhaps not up there with the greatest heavyweight rowers, I think, but very very large indeed. And it is not bad in relative terms either, as today showed.

One thing that has not been stressed is that Manificat kept everyone under pressure from the get go: Heikkinen for one said that he was basically done when the hill started. And it seemed that way, too, as he resorted to the duckwalking technique ever so often. That Manificat was so strong only makes colognas cool as a cucumber tactic more impressive.

 

[jens_attacks]

Pepene, what a hero!

Ustiugov= legend

 

[python]

Re: Re:

When I first saw the official times for the stage (including the hill), I was scratching my head and had to double and triple check the results: Bessmertnykh with 6th fastest stage time, and 2nd fastest (!!!!!!) hill climb?!?! What in the world?? If this was skied in the classic style, it would not be surprising at all, but in the skate?? WOW

i am not going to dissemble that the Bess' climbing has not surprised me...But unexpected ? Hardly.

here's what i posted just days ago after his individual skate:
viewtopic.php?p=2052948#p2052948

I also expect a punch from bessmertych who was surprisingly good in a skate yesterday he usually does not favour - means his body may not be as tired as others.

what makes me even more convinced that he did so well b/c of his relative freshness, is his size - not a feather weight like heikkinen. google said: 183 cm, 78 kg. i think google withstands my sanity check, that is, his images next to the other skiers roughly his size. i think alex is one of those talented skiers that for one reason or another shine only occasionally. perhaps its his visible phlegmatism or the lack of a killer instinct. for instance, he sacrificed his chance at winning the 15 k classic by working for ustiuogov. i can't see legkov doing that...

anyways, this year's tour was one of the more watchable and exciting. for some reasons (still not fully clear) stina, parmakoski, ustiuogov, cologna, hellner etc had challenged the norwegian dominance and did it very successfully. i already read a truck-full of paranoiac articles in the norwegian media. it's not quite a panic yet, but the surprise is there.

to conclude, i'd like say a word or 2 about the pluses and minuses of the main 'norge-beater' - ustiougov. imo, his main winning tool is an exceptionally powerful V2. he's not the only one with the weapon. for instance, petter perfected it too. but serhey employs and styles it differently. his arms swing is shorter and lower, he develops most of his power from shoulders and arms...he employs this weapon both when accelerating in the sprints and going up the relatively steep, short hills as if his poles are wings. i really get an image of a huge bird flapping the wing when watching him...among his minus is still the classic style. though he improved, i still see too much leaning forward and the excessive reliance on the arms and shoulders. perhaps that's how he is the fastest at the moment, but in all 3 classic legs he was visibly in difficulties when the action heated up. in away, he was lucky that the tour contained much more skating and no 30 km classic stages. i am convinced he would NOT win had the classic/skate proportion favoured the classic

he also showed himself an astute tactician, intelligent pacer and a merciless fighter. all the qualities needed for a new king. whether he'll be able to hang on to the throne depends on the russian xc ski machine well known to eat its own young.

 

[May0maniac]

According to Markus Cramer Ustigov wasn only the 2nd strongest Skier in their pre-TdS training camp, apparently Legkov was even stronger and beating everyone.

 

[infeXio]

What's going on with Northug? - anyone with some insight into why he has barely featured this season?

 

[python]

it's been widely reported that he lacks form due to over training at an early season camp...whether it's true or not or how much of it is true vs. a window, is open to interpretation.

he was listed as a norwegian entry into the tds and then withdrawn. as far back as yesterday i read (can't recall either at TV2 or the VG) he was loaded only with the easy training sessions... from time to time he jokes in the social media. the word from the coaching staff is that he is still considered for a national team in lahti. though, even if they dont enter him, he has a personal opening as the world champion in 2 distances. But they are considering his replacement for a relay team which Norway NEVER lost. as always, everything about petter is a mixture truth, jokes, smoke and mirrors.

 

[BullsFan22]

Ustiugov will race this coming weekend in Toblach. Certainly the individual skate sprint. It wasn't specified if he will only do that race or both the individual and team sprint. Trying to carry the excellent form on the track that suits him and one that he just won in the 10km at the tour a few days ago? And also closing the gap down some more on Sundby's overall WC lead? Perhaps, though his coach said the most important thing this year was the World's in Lahti. After Toblach, they'll stay there for 10 days or so and then hop to Norway and do the Norwegian nationals. Testing himself against the Norwegians a few weeks before Lahti? Psyching them out? Putting fear in them? Trolling them? Anyway, that's the plan. No Ulricehamm Sweden World Cups and he obviously won't go to Korea for the pre-Olympic races. After Norwegian nationals he'll race the Falun World Cups, Otepaa pre World's races and then on to Lahti. Sensible to skip two weekends of WC's and not head all the way over to Korea, even if it's the pre-Olympic prep. According to his coach, Sergey wasn't even the one in the best shape during their Toblach training camp over Xmas, it was actually Legkov, but he was unfortunately not allowed to start. It would have been interesting to see how the three guys that were originally slated to go, would have done.

Regarding Northug, he apparently hasn't been on skis that much since he last raced. Is he bluffing or is his form seriously that bad that he can't even get out and train? Is he sick? Is he burned out a bit? Is it something else?

 

[Singer01]

amazing performance from svendsen, hope that puts a spring in his step, at his best he is one of the few who can beat fourcade heads up on a regular basis. clearly he should always come from behind in relays rather than leading on the last leg.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Yep. Awesome relay. One of the best I've seen in many many years. Norway is going to be very difficult to beat in Hochfilzen, even if Tarjei's presence is still a huge question mark.
Bummer for France, that big bro Fourcade ****** up the first lap. Clearly the guy should never have been part of the relay team with his lack of shape.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Yep. Awesome relay. One of the best I've seen in many many years. Norway is going to be very difficult to beat in Hochfilzen, even if Tarjei's presence is still a huge question mark.
Bummer for France, that big bro Fourcade ****** up the first lap. Clearly the guy should never have been part of the relay team with his lack of shape.

No Boe brothers, but I don't think the Russia had their final relay composition either. Volkov is a good shooter but lacks in ski speed. Babikov's form may be declining, we'll see what Gross has them doing for preparation for Hochfilzen. Interesting to test out Shipulin on leg two, instead of his usual anchor. I think they'll go back to having him last. Svendsen can't beat Shipulin in a sprint. Garannichev is still a question mark. I am interested what the Austrians do at home. Eberhard has some serious speed, but he is too inconsistent on the range.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

Yep. Awesome relay. One of the best I've seen in many many years. Norway is going to be very difficult to beat in Hochfilzen, even if Tarjei's presence is still a huge question mark.
Bummer for France, that big bro Fourcade ****** up the first lap. Clearly the guy should never have been part of the relay team with his lack of shape.

No Boe brothers, but I don't think the Russia had their final relay composition either. Volkov is a good shooter but lacks in ski speed. Babikov's form may be declining, we'll see what Gross has them doing for preparation for Hochfilzen. Interesting to test out Shipulin on leg two, instead of his usual anchor. I think they'll go back to having him last. Svendsen can't beat Shipulin in a sprint. Garannichev is still a question mark. I am interested what the Austrians do at home. Eberhard has some serious speed, but he is too inconsistent on the range.

Svendsen beat Shipulin in a sprint in Pokljuka, so he definitely can. Shipulin hasn't been as good as usual on the last loop. His skiing in general has been below standards. I think that's why the Russians decided to test a different constellation.

In hindsight, Babikov did a good job with only 1 shooting error. Unfortunately for him, Super Svendsen has found his old speed. Shipulin may have been able to hold Svendsen back. It was Shipulin who gave Russia their advantage on the 2nd lap, so the decision of putting him there might not have been such a bad solution after all.

The Russian team can possibly improve their line-up marginally. For instance, Tsvetkov was absent today. Garanichev has not done anything that suggests he can earn a spot on the Russian relay team in Hochfilzen.

 

[kingjr]

Re:

amazing performance from svendsen, hope that puts a spring in his step, at his best he is one of the few who can beat fourcade heads up on a regular basis. clearly he should always come from behind in relays rather than leading on the last leg.

He can't and he won't (beat him on a regular basis).

His race today aside from the shooting wasn't all that impressive, Babikov and Schempp were very weak on the last lap. Krcmar would have smashed him in a sprint.



As to Shipulin, my first thought was they put him on 2 to repair any damage done by Volkov on 1.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

Yep. Awesome relay. One of the best I've seen in many many years. Norway is going to be very difficult to beat in Hochfilzen, even if Tarjei's presence is still a huge question mark.
Bummer for France, that big bro Fourcade ****** up the first lap. Clearly the guy should never have been part of the relay team with his lack of shape.

No Boe brothers, but I don't think the Russia had their final relay composition either. Volkov is a good shooter but lacks in ski speed. Babikov's form may be declining, we'll see what Gross has them doing for preparation for Hochfilzen. Interesting to test out Shipulin on leg two, instead of his usual anchor. I think they'll go back to having him last. Svendsen can't beat Shipulin in a sprint. Garannichev is still a question mark. I am interested what the Austrians do at home. Eberhard has some serious speed, but he is too inconsistent on the range.

Svendsen beat Shipulin in a sprint in Pokljuka, so he definitely can. Shipulin hasn't been as good as usual on the last loop. His skiing in general has been below standards. I think that's why the Russians decided to test a different constellation.

In hindsight, Babikov did a good job with only 1 shooting error. Unfortunately for him, Super Svendsen has found his old speed. Shipulin may have been able to hold Svendsen back. It was Shipulin who gave Russia their advantage on the 2nd lap, so the decision of putting him there might not have been such a bad solution after all.

The Russian team can possibly improve their line-up marginally. For instance, Tsvetkov was absent today. Garanichev has not done anything that suggests he can earn a spot on the Russian relay team in Hochfilzen.

Pokljuka is not a good example. It's essentially a downhill finish and there's little to no time for anyone to really sprint and make a move to pass. The finish straight is too short and too fast. Whoever is up front has a huge advantage. Oesterstund as well, though perhaps not as much. I do agree that Shipulin isn't in 'great' shape now, but he was in good enough shape to post the fastest time on his leg with one spare round. Tsvetkov would have certainly been there instead of Volkov, so we'll see what the coaches have in mind later on. Volkov is usually one of the top shooters in the field, but skiing is not that impressive. Tsvetkov is no Fourcade on skis, but he is definitely better than Volkov and his shooting is solid. The fluctuation of form between Oberhof and Ruhpolding seems, to me at least, very evident.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

Yep. Awesome relay. One of the best I've seen in many many years. Norway is going to be very difficult to beat in Hochfilzen, even if Tarjei's presence is still a huge question mark.
Bummer for France, that big bro Fourcade ****** up the first lap. Clearly the guy should never have been part of the relay team with his lack of shape.

No Boe brothers, but I don't think the Russia had their final relay composition either. Volkov is a good shooter but lacks in ski speed. Babikov's form may be declining, we'll see what Gross has them doing for preparation for Hochfilzen. Interesting to test out Shipulin on leg two, instead of his usual anchor. I think they'll go back to having him last. Svendsen can't beat Shipulin in a sprint. Garannichev is still a question mark. I am interested what the Austrians do at home. Eberhard has some serious speed, but he is too inconsistent on the range.

Svendsen beat Shipulin in a sprint in Pokljuka, so he definitely can. Shipulin hasn't been as good as usual on the last loop. His skiing in general has been below standards. I think that's why the Russians decided to test a different constellation.

In hindsight, Babikov did a good job with only 1 shooting error. Unfortunately for him, Super Svendsen has found his old speed. Shipulin may have been able to hold Svendsen back. It was Shipulin who gave Russia their advantage on the 2nd lap, so the decision of putting him there might not have been such a bad solution after all.

The Russian team can possibly improve their line-up marginally. For instance, Tsvetkov was absent today. Garanichev has not done anything that suggests he can earn a spot on the Russian relay team in Hochfilzen.

Pokljuka is not a good example. It's essentially a downhill finish and there's little to no time for anyone to really sprint and make a move to pass. The finish straight is too short and too fast. Whoever is up front has a huge advantage. Oesterstund as well, though perhaps not as much. I do agree that Shipulin isn't in 'great' shape now, but he was in good enough shape to post the fastest time on his leg with one spare round. Tsvetkov would have certainly been there instead of Volkov, so we'll see what the coaches have in mind later on. Volkov is usually one of the top shooters in the field, but skiing is not that impressive. Tsvetkov is no Fourcade on skis, but he is definitely better than Volkov and his shooting is solid. The fluctuation of form between Oberhof and Ruhpolding seems, to me at least, very evident.

You're right, that Pokljuka is not the best example. When that is said, Shipulin had every opportunity to pass Svendsen in the sprint as they were neck and neck coming into the final stretch.

 

[portugal11]

Pathetic performance by simon fourcade. He lost a minute and half in 7.5 km... and he didn't do "extra meters"